Why does winning titles with multiple coaches matter to some of you?

[bignish]

‘Cause it matters whether the program can sustain the same level of success after the one coach who won everything for the school has moved on. As a duke fan, do you believe Jon Scheyer has what it takes to win titles for Duke following Coach K’s retirement? If not, how confident are you that his successor(s) can? There’re quite a bit of uncertainty for Duke’s basketball program at this point, no one will know how the next 20-30 years will be like.

I disagree with this statement since its clear that Duke's recruiting which is the lifeblood of any program hasn't really fallen off at all. They're still getting blue chip recruits and there's no sign of that stopping.

I actually think NIL will help the major blue bloods like Duke and Kentucky since if there's a clear roster opening due to an unexpected departure, the chance to get playing time at one of these programs who are on ESPN every night and the chance to earn major NIL money and exposure would be hard for the top transfers to ignore.

There's a good chance Duke is consensus preseason top 5 next year and they're in the hunt for some of the best OADs in future recruiting cycles like Boozer and Cooper Flagg.

 

[bignish]

tell us you're freaking out that you may never win another natty now that your golden goose is retired without telling us you're freaking out that you may never win another natty now that your golden goose is retired.

no, he's an overrated fraud. This has been covered to death here.

I'm confused bruh, you're saying that K's an overrated fraud who chokes more often than not but yet he led the most successful college basketball program in the modern era.

So if his overrated coaching led to Duke still somehow underperforming, doesn't that mean Scheyer doesn't have to do a lot to maintain Duke at K levels and there's a chance Duke might even be more dominant since Scheyer ends up being a better in game coach?

Your two statements contradict each other. K is an overrated fraud but also a golden goose?

 

[Afamu]

You realize that Duke is in North Carolina, right?

It's like arguing who has a nicer double-wide.

Yes I do. You do understand talking shit, right?

 

[ExitFlagger]

I laugh at all the idiots who call the Zion year a choke job. No bench, no consistent outside shooting and two capable rebounders. Even funnier is these same people told us all year why Duke wasn't going to win the championship are the ones calling it a choke job.

If you’re talking about me, I expected Duke to win it and I’m pretty sure all of you did too. Narratives have a way of changing very quickly after the season ends.

 

[Afamu]

I'm confused bruh, you're saying that K's an overrated fraud who chokes more often than not but yet he led the most successful college basketball program in the modern era.

So if his overrated coaching led to Duke still somehow underperforming, doesn't that mean Scheyer doesn't have to do a lot to maintain Duke at K levels and there's a chance Duke might even be more dominant since Scheyer ends up being a better in game coach?

Your two statements contradict each other. K is an overrated fraud but also a golden goose?

He is way too stupid to understand your analysis.

 

[Afamu]

If you’re talking about me, I expected Duke to win it and I’m pretty sure all of you did too. Narratives have a way of changing very quickly after the season ends.

I am a pretty big Duke fan and I didn’t expect them to win it. Reddish made one key shit all year, RJ was not the Knick RJ and not that great inside or at the point.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Yes I do. You do understand talking shit, right?

When it makes sense, yes.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I am a pretty big Duke fan and I didn’t expect them to win it. Reddish made one key shit all year, RJ was not the Knick RJ and not that great inside or at the point.

The supporting cast may not have been perfect, but Zion shouldn’t need a perfect supporting cast to get to the final four. He might’ve been the most unstoppable force we’ve seen in the modern era.

Don’t be a Kentucky fan and whine about only having two lottery picks around him and 4 more top 30 players. No other team would have traded rosters and you know it.

 

[GhostOf301]

You realize that Duke is in North Carolina, right?

It's like arguing who has a nicer double-wide.

Our double wides shit on South Carolina's double wides. Prove me wrong.

 

[Afamu]

The supporting cast may not have been perfect, but Zion shouldn’t need a perfect supporting cast to get to the final four. He might’ve been the most unstoppable force we’ve seen in the modern era.

Don’t be a Kentucky fan and whine about only having two lottery picks around him and 4 more top 30 players. No other team would have traded rosters and you know it.

Seems like you don’t understand the game of basketball

 

[GhostOf301]

If you’re talking about me, I expected Duke to win it and I’m pretty sure all of you did too. Narratives have a way of changing very quickly after the season ends.

There were a lot of idiots who said all year that Duke had too many flaws to win it all just to turn around and say they choked when those flaws kept them from winning it all.

And no, I never expect Duke to win a championship. There are years where I think they have a better chance than others. But I have enough sense to understand how hard it is to win a championship, even if you are hands down the best team.

And yes, narratives do have a way of changing. Like the narratives that Duke was too thin off the bench, didn't have enough dependable rebounders and shot less than 30% from three as a team. Those are all flaws that can end your season quickly in a single elimination tournament. Were they good enough to win it? Absolutely. Was it disappointing that they didn't? You can bet on it. But it was not a choke job to lose a close game in the EE while having said flaws and relying on freshmen.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Reddish made one key shit all year.

 

[jhmossy]

I laugh at all the idiots who call the Zion year a choke job. No bench, no consistent outside shooting and two capable rebounders. Even funnier is these same people told us all year why Duke wasn't going to win the championship are the ones calling it a choke job.

Would have lost to UVA in championship anyways. We weren’t losing to anyone that year. I don’t care that you beat us twice in regular season. We had all the deities on our side in that tourney.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Seems like you don’t understand the game of basketball

Teach me some Xs and Os, Phil Wooden. 🤣

 

[cdbearde]

The supporting cast may not have been perfect, but Zion shouldn’t need a perfect supporting cast to get to the final four. He might’ve been the most unstoppable force we’ve seen in the modern era.

Don’t be a Kentucky fan and whine about only having two lottery picks around him and 4 more top 30 players. No other team would have traded rosters and you know it.

 

[cdbearde]

 

[Afamu]

There were a lot of idiots who said all year that Duke had too many flaws to win it all just to turn around and say they choked when those flaws kept them from winning it all.

And no, I never expect Duke to win a championship. There are years where I think they have a better chance than others. But I have enough sense to understand how hard it is to win a championship, even if you are hands down the best team.

And yes, narratives do have a way of changing. Like the narratives that Duke was too thin off the bench, didn't have enough dependable rebounders and shot less than 30% from three as a team. Those are all flaws that can end your season quickly in a single elimination tournament. Were they good enough to win it? Absolutely. Was it disappointing that they didn't? You can bet on it. But it was not a choke job to lose a close game in the EE while having said flaws and relying on freshmen.

Great response.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

I'm confused bruh, you're saying that K's an overrated fraud who chokes more often than not but yet he led the most successful college basketball program in the modern era.

So if his overrated coaching led to Duke still somehow underperforming, doesn't that mean Scheyer doesn't have to do a lot to maintain Duke at K levels and there's a chance Duke might even be more dominant since Scheyer ends up being a better in game coach?

Your two statements contradict each other. K is an overrated fraud but also a golden goose?

I‘m talking about it from your perspective. Put yourself in your shoes.

 

[RR30]

Is Coach K the greatest of all time?

He won 5 titles over 3 different decades of basketball in the modern era. For me he is.

 

[RR30]

I laugh at all the idiots who call the Zion year a choke job. No bench, no consistent outside shooting and two capable rebounders. Even funnier is these same people told us all year why Duke wasn't going to win the championship are the ones calling it a choke job.

You literally had one of the best players of the 21st century, two more lottery picks and a first round point guard on that roster. Give me a break. They should have lost in it second round UCF. That was a massive choke job, just like UK in 2010 with a similar roster.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

He won 5 titles over 3 different decades of basketball in the modern era. For me he is.

what Bryce Drew did at Baylor is more impressive than what Fraud did at Duke.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

I actually think NIL will help the major blue bloods like Duke and Kentucky since if there's a clear roster opening due to an unexpected departure, the chance to get playing time at one of these programs who are on ESPN every night and the chance to earn major NIL money and exposure would be hard for the top transfers to ignore.

Way too soon to know how NIL and the portal will impact specific programs. It's interesting you coming to this conclusion after you just witnessed one elite program miss the NCAAT (UNC) and the other big 3 (UK,KU,Duke) fail to make the 2nd weekend. Half the S16 was mid-majors so was the Final4. The 4 also included a perennial also-ran Miami on top of a few other outsider programs. Miami bought their Final4 through NIL, and those guys aren't anywhere near elite. SDSU and FAU didn't really incorporate NIL at all. Unsure about UCONN seems they have a traditional roster.

But if you really like your theory (most people like their theories) you can ignore what you just witnessed or consider it an anomaly. It is true the year before was top program Final4 stuff. It's unclear if filling those open positions will be the correct fit. What can you tell us about Grandison's impact for Duke I didn't follow things as closely this year as I have in the past. Was he instrumental in beating Oral Roberts?

Right now we just don't have enough data and I don't really pretend to know how it will go moving forward.

 

[RR30]

what Bryce Drew did at Baylor is more impressive than what Fraud did at Duke.

I don't agree with you, but I appreciate your level of hate towards him. Keep it up

 

[Afamu]

what Bryce Drew did at Baylor is more impressive than what Fraud did at Duke.

Maybe learn the names of the coaches prior to posting. Makes you look even more ridiculous and stupid than you actually are.

 

[GhostOf301]

You literally had one of the best players of the 21st century, two more lottery picks and a first round point guard on that roster. Give me a break. They should have lost in it second round UCF. That was a massive choke job, just like UK in 2010 with a similar roster.

What team that started 4 freshmen, played 2 sophomores and 2 juniors where the sophomores and juniors were extremely average has done better?

This is why the people who say that this was a choke job are complete idiots. I don't care how good your best freshman is. If you have a thin and unproductive bench, you can’t shoot the three and don't rebound well as a team, you're probably not going to do much better than one or two plays away from the final four.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

What team that started 4 freshmen, played 2 sophomores and 2 juniors where the sophomores and juniors were extremely average has done better?

Fab Five.

The amount of teams who have started 4+ freshman in the history of college basketball is miniscule though.

 

[RR30]

What team that started 4 freshmen, played 2 sophomores and 2 juniors where the sophomores and juniors were extremely average has done better?

This is why the people who say that this was a choke job are complete idiots. I don't care how good your best freshman is. If you have a thin and unproductive bench, you can’t shoot the three and don't rebound well as a team, you're probably not going to do much better than one or two plays away from the final four.

It's not fair they didn't win they were young and had no bench! The lengths yall go to act like that wasn't a choke job is hilarious. Zion literally could not be guarded and K let RJ Barrett shoot them out of the tournament. That is on him. Plain and simple.

 

[GhostOf301]

It's not fair they didn't win they were young and had no bench! The lengths yall go to act like that wasn't a choke job is hilarious. Zion literally could not be guarded and K let RJ Barrett shoot them out of the tournament. That is on him. Plain and simple.

I never said it isn't fair. It's just not shocking. And with how easy it is to lose with the flaws that have been repeatedly brought up, barely missing the FF is not a choke job. Coaching decisions that don't work out don't really equate to choking.

It was disappointing. Not denying that. But not surprising at all.

 

[GhostOf301]

Fab Five.

The amount of teams who have started 4+ freshman in the history of college basketball is miniscule though.

Did they choke by not winning the championship?

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Did they choke by not winning the championship?

Nah. They weren't even very good. Shouldn't have made it to the title game to begin with. Duke was the favorite from start to finish that year.

 

[Fighter of the Nightman]

I’m biased as a Duke fan but I never understood this argument. Kevin Ollie at UConn is regarded as a failure even though he won a title his first year. Hurley seems like a good coach but if UConn follows up this run with a bunch of NIT appearances, he’d be seen as a disappointment too.

Huh? Should be obvious. It’s more impressive to your program’s history if one guy isn’t largely responsible for it all.

 

[GhostOf301]

Duke was the favorite from start to finish that year.

I would have that memory too if I were a Kentucky fan.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I would have that memory too if I were a Kentucky fan.

How did such an allegedly flawed team boatrace a solid Kentucky team like that? They could've won that game by 50 if they wanted to.

 

[RR30]

How did such an allegedly flawed team boatrace a solid Kentucky team like that? They could've won that game by 50 if they wanted to.

Duke was the #1 overall seed with the unanimous NPOY. The revisionist history is hilarious.

 

[GhostOf301]

How did such an allegedly flawed team boatrace a solid Kentucky team like that? They could've won that game by 50 if they wanted to.

That game showed how good Duke could be. Flaws don't show their face every game. They bite you when it hurts the most.

This is tiring. If you have no respect for how hard it is to win a championship. Or don't have enough sense to know that relying on 4 freshman, regardless of how good they are, and a painfully average other 4 players isn't a setup for success, then you haven't paid attention to college basketball for however many years you have been watching.

Now if we want to talk about recruiting habits that set Duke up with the lack of supporting players, we can do that.

 

[ExitFlagger]

What team that started 4 freshmen, played 2 sophomores and 2 juniors where the sophomores and juniors were extremely average has done better?

This is why the people who say that this was a choke job are complete idiots. I don't care how good your best freshman is. If you have a thin and unproductive bench, you can’t shoot the three and don't rebound well as a team, you're probably not going to do much better than one or two plays away from the final four.

For the record, I wasn't saying it was one of the biggest chokejobs ever or anything. My point was that choking is relative. I get annoyed by the "routine choker" label, considering that Bill's had far less talent than Calipari/K with arguably better results during his run at KU.

But where are you getting the idea that Duke didn't rebound well as a team? They were 3rd in the entire nation while playing in a major conference. They averaged over 41 rebounds/game. That would've ranked them 2nd in the nation this season. 😆

 

[GhostOf301]

For the record, I wasn't saying it was one of the biggest chokejobs ever or anything. My point was that choking is relative. I get annoyed by the "routine choker" label, considering that Bill's had far less talent than Calipari/K with arguably better results during his run at KU.

But where are you getting the idea that Duke didn't rebound well as a team? They were 3rd in the entire nation while playing in a major conference. They averaged over 41 rebounds/game. That would've ranked them 2nd in the nation this season. 😆

Perhaps I was mixing up Duke teams. Hard to keep up with them.

The last thing I will say on this, because it's old and unproductive. Duke showed many times that they were beatable, even at full strength. They had the talent to go further than they did, but talent doesn't win championships. They also had enough going against them to lose earlier. Like I said, disappointing. But not surprising. Like losing to South Carolina 17, or to Indiana in 02. 99' was tough, too.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

I would have that memory too if I were a Kentucky fan.

It was a miracle that a bunch of home grown unathletic crackers (UK) coming off a two year post season ban got as far as they did to begin with. That's why they are the most beloved team in UK history, even though they didn't win shit.

 

[Random UK Fan]

That game showed how good Duke could be.

Or how frustratingly inconsistent UK has become.

 

[dukedevilz]

I just think it's crazy that Coach K led Duke to the Final Four in 5 different decades.