Who Wins the ACC?

[dukedevilz]

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Good stuff.

It really is something when whites outnumber blacks something like 6 to 1 in the United States. But, in the NBA, it's more than a 4:1 ratio for blacks. So, per capita, you're looking at roughly 25 professional black basketball players in the NBA for every white player. Crazy. It's the same thing when it comes to distance running. If you look at the top 25 marathon runners of all-time, every single one is either Kenyan or Ethiopian. People can pretend all day that it's not genetics, but it clearly is.

 

[sgrooms]

Good stuff.

It really is something when whites outnumber blacks something like 6 to 1 in the United States. But, in the NBA, it's more than a 4:1 ratio for blacks. So, per capita, you're looking at roughly 25 professional black basketball players in the NBA for every white player. Crazy. It's the same thing when it comes to distance running. If you look at the top 25 marathon runners of all-time, every single one is either Kenyan or Ethiopian. People can pretend all day that it's not genetics, but it clearly is.

Is the disparity between black and white basketball players greater or less than that between male and female players?

I should probably move that question over to the other thread.

 

[Villian07]

Good stuff.

It really is something when whites outnumber blacks something like 6 to 1 in the United States. But, in the NBA, it's more than a 4:1 ratio for blacks. So, per capita, you're looking at roughly 25 professional black basketball players in the NBA for every white player. Crazy. It's the same thing when it comes to distance running. If you look at the top 25 marathon runners of all-time, every single one is either Kenyan or Ethiopian. People can pretend all day that it's not genetics, but it clearly is.

Man I don’t wanna go down a slippery slope but I truly believe that African Americans are so much more athletic than any other race/ethnicity etc bc of slave owners selectively breeding their slaves.

And I only say that bc besides the marathon distance running the entire continent of Africa just never wins anything on a global stage. It’s like African Americans are athletically superior to Africans, despite similar heritage/genetics. I’m aware poverty also plays its part on a larger scale in Africa, but still.

I mean I can’t even think of an all time great soccer player from Africa like pele or maradonna or Messi or Ronaldo.

Dieder Drogba is the first that comes to mind, and their have been many good soccer players from all over Africa, but if it was just a black/white thing it seems there would be more big time athletes from Africa. Jmo

 

[GE Nole]

Man I don’t wanna go down a slippery slope but I truly believe that African Americans are so much more athletic than any other race/ethnicity etc bc of slave owners selectively breeding their slaves.

And I only say that bc besides the marathon distance running the entire continent of Africa just never wins anything on a global stage. It’s like African Americans are athletically superior to Africans, despite similar heritage/genetics. I’m aware poverty also plays its part on a larger scale in Africa, but still.

I mean I can’t even think of an all time great soccer player from Africa like pele or maradonna or Messi or Ronaldo.

Dieder Drogba is the first that comes to mind, and their have been many good soccer players from all over Africa, but if it was just a black/white thing it seems there would be more big time athletes from Africa. Jmo

You don’t think the animal trackers and hunters in some African tribes are big time athletes?

 

[Villian07]

You don’t think the animal trackers and hunters in some African tribes are big time athletes?

I have no clue, I mean I’m sure there are athletic people in Africa, I just meant on the global sports scale, African countries aren’t even coming close to winning olympic medals in team sports or the World Cup or the international fifa basketball tourney or anything besides distance running. If it was simply a black/white genetic thing it seems like African countries would dominate the Olympics.

Do you disagree that African Americans arent generally more athletic than Africans? Or the most athletic ________ (I don’t know the word, not race but “group” or however that’s categorized)

Like I’m not even sure who would be considered the most famous athlete from Africa all time bc I can’t think of many at all. Manute Bol, drogba, Gervinho. But again I realize the poverty in parts of Africa doesn’t really make it a fair comparison either.

 

[GE Nole]

I have no clue, I mean I’m sure there are athletic people in Africa, I just meant on the global sports scale, African countries aren’t even coming close to winning olympic medals in team sports or the World Cup or the international fifa basketball tourney or anything besides distance running. If it was simply a black/white genetic thing it seems like African countries would dominate the Olympics.

Do you disagree that African Americans arent generally more athletic than Africans? Or the most athletic ________ (I don’t know the word, not race but “group” or however that’s categorized)

Like I’m not even sure who would be considered the most famous athlete from Africa all time bc I can’t think of many at all. Manute Bol, drogba, Gervinho. But again I realize the poverty in parts of Africa doesn’t really make it a fair comparison either.

Obviously this is a difficult topic to discuss via this platform but I’d say a couple things:

1. The word “athletic” is kind of vague. Are you saying jumping and running fast? Is that what you’re qualifying as “athletic?” What about hand-eye coordination, balance, endurance, agility, body control, etc? Aren’t those things athleticism too?

2. You keep referencing Olympic medals, but that’s not an indicator of athleticism. That’s an indicator of years and years of training and skill development. If all you needed was muscle and strength to hit a home run or a golf ball, wouldn’t every single roided up weight lifter be a baseball Hall of Famer or golf champ? The Chinese dominate diving in the Olympics, which certainly takes athleticism. But it also takes stupid amounts of training from the age of 2 or 3.

3. You keep alluding to “yeah I know poverty plays a role” but then seem to totally dismiss the MASSIVE role it plays. Even a poor person in the US has the infrastructure and time to be able to go play basketball all day in the park with their Jordan shoes and then go home and drink Gatorade and eat pizza. And when they break their hand they can go and get X-rays and a cast. Compare that to someone who’s spending most of their day trying to get access to potable water and when they get hurt they have to hope it heals itself.

4. The US has had generations of selective breeding, yes with slaves, but also with just western desires of what’s attractive and wealth. We are much more interbred than many other nations and continents.

 

[Villian07]

1. Idk it’s a word, I guess I use it like it’s definition. All the things you mention play a part

2. Good point. I don’t really have any other way to quantify the genetic superiority of African Americans over Africans besides international competitions.

3. no argument, again I don’t know how to quantify it.

4. I was referring to slave owners breeding the biggest most athletic men slaves ie mandingos like on the movie django with the biggest most athletic women slaves to produce “bigger and stronger” off spring to theoretically make better workers. Not selective breeding based off of physical attraction or wealth. Basically saying the slaves were bred with no choice in the matter.

 

[GE Nole]

1. Idk it’s a word, I guess I use it like it’s definition. All the things you mention play a part

2. Good point. I don’t really have any other way to quantify the genetic superiority of African Americans over Africans besides international competitions.

3. no argument, again I don’t know how to quantify it.

4. I was referring to slave owners breeding the biggest most athletic men slaves ie mandingos like on the movie django with the biggest most athletic women slaves to produce “bigger and stronger” off spring to theoretically make better workers. Not selective breeding based off of physical attraction or wealth. Basically saying the slaves were bred with no choice in the matter.

For points 2 and 3, I’m saying there are other ways. But when you look at it with such a limited scope, it begins confirmation bias.

As for 4, yes that’s what I’m saying. There was selective breeding in slaves, but that didn’t happen quite to the degree that pop culture portrays. In fact, many slaves married and had families—by choice—on the plantation or property in which they lived. Not to mention, it doesn’t take into account slavery that was going on in Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Africa for literally thousands of years. You don’t think Egypt was selectively breeding slaves when they were building the pyramids?

In short, I’m not saying you’re wrong, as much as I’m saying it’s such a limited and myopic perspective that it’s like talking about an avalanche and saying it was caused by the 4 inches of snow that fell 75 years ago.

 

[Villian07]

For points 2 and 3, I’m saying there are other ways. But when you look at it with such a limited scope, it begins confirmation bias.

As for 4, yes that’s what I’m saying. There was selective breeding in slaves, but that didn’t happen quite to the degree that pop culture portrays. In fact, many slaves married and had families—by choice—on the plantation or property in which they lived. Not to mention, it doesn’t take into account slavery that was going on in Europe, Middle East, Asia, and Africa for literally thousands of years. You don’t think Egypt was selectively breeding slaves when they were building the pyramids.

In short, I’m not saying you’re wrong, as much as I’m saying it’s such a limited and myopic perspective that it’s like talking about an avalanche and saying it was caused by the 4 inches of snow that fell 75 years ago.

Great post. I hadn’t much considered the slavery throughout the other eras of civilization.

The original question I posed has probably So many factors it’s unfathomable anyways.

 

[GE Nole]

Great post. I hadn’t much considered the slavery throughout the other eras of civilization.

The original question I posed has probably So many factors it’s unfathomable anyways.

Agreed. Just an absurd amount of factors.

 

[dukedevilz]

Also, there are over 40 Nigerians in the NFL. Either they or one of their parents were born in Nigeria. In the past NBA draft, 8 players of Nigerian descent were drafted (Okoro, Okongwu, Achiuwa, Nnaji, Azbuike, Bane, Oturu, and Nwora). And let's not forget about the Greek Freak himself, Giannis Antetokounmpo. Both of his parents were actually born in Nigeria. If Africans were given the same opportunity as African-Americans, I think you would see similar results.

Is the disparity between black and white basketball players greater or less than that between male and female players?

I should probably move that question over to the other thread.

Despite what Kobe may have said, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore and Elena Delle Donne could not play in the NBA. No chance. They would be viciously exploited. The speed and strength of the men alone would be insurmountable. Consider the fact that only 3 players in WNBA history have dunked in a game. You could find multiple high school teams in any state could demolish the greatest female team ever assembled.

 

[sgrooms]

Also, there are over 40 Nigerians in the NFL. Either they or one of their parents were born in Nigeria. In the past NBA draft, 8 players of Nigerian descent were drafted (Okoro, Okongwu, Achiuwa, Nnaji, Azbuike, Bane, Oturu, and Nwora). And let's not forget about the Greek Freak himself, Giannis Antetokounmpo. Both of his parents were actually born in Nigeria. If Africans were given the same opportunity as African-Americans, I think you would see similar results.



Despite what Kobe may have said, Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore and Elena Delle Donne could not play in the NBA. No chance. They would be viciously exploited. The speed and strength of the men alone would be insurmountable. Consider the fact that only 3 players in WNBA history have dunked in a game. You could find multiple high school teams in any state could demolish the greatest female team ever assembled.

But you're comparing mostly black NBA players to female players in this. I guess another way to ask this is: Image three leagues. Black NBA, white NBA, and WNBA. Is the talent gap between black NBA and white NBA larger or smaller than the gap between white NBA and WNBA?

 

[Crappy Davenpot]

Hate to butt in... FSU is the regular season fav right now. However, there is a real tough away game at Chapel Hill looming. Provided there are no other stumbles.

 

[GhostOf301]

Is the talent gap between black NBA and white NBA larger or smaller than the gap between white NBA and WNBA?

Smaller. By a mile.

 

[dukedevilz]

But you're comparing mostly black NBA players to female players in this. I guess another way to ask this is: Image three leagues. Black NBA, white NBA, and WNBA. Is the talent gap between black NBA and white NBA larger or smaller than the gap between white NBA and WNBA?

Still not close. If there were an equal number of white and black people, in a league of 500 players, you'd still have 20 white players. In a league of 500 white players, where women were allowed to compete, you'd have exactly 0 women that were good enough to make a roster.

There are roughly 2 million American boys in each high school class. So, let's suppose that Diana Taurasi, Maya Moore and Elena Delle Donne are better than 99.9% of the boys of each class. They could beat almost any typical high school player. But, that also means 2,000 of those boys in each class were better. The aforementioned women might have better handles, court vision, and shooting touch than many of the players in the NBA - but that can't compensate for the physical attributes which would expose them constantly.

If you take only the white players from Iowa, Wisconsin, and BYU, I'd say all three schools would beat the U.S. Olympic Women's team by 30+ points, assuming there are 70+ possessions.

Smaller. By a mile.

By twenty miles. There was a 52 year-old trans woman a few years back that averaged 16 points and 16 rebounds at a community college. 52. Probably had a 2 inch vertical and still managed to snag 16 boards a game.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Smaller. By a mile.

that's what she said!

 

[GE Nole]

But you're comparing mostly black NBA players to female players in this. I guess another way to ask this is: Image three leagues. Black NBA, white NBA, and WNBA. Is the talent gap between black NBA and white NBA larger or smaller than the gap between white NBA and WNBA?

White NBA as in Luka, Jokic, Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson, JJ Redick, Daniel Theis, Alex Caruso, and others?

Yeah, the gap between white NBA and black NBA is absurdly closer than white nba and the WNBA. The gap between black NBA and D2 men is closer than white NBA and WNBA.

 

[Villian07]

Cannot believe they let a 52 yo trans woman play women’s basketball anywhere they kept score, even a community college.

Does the WNBA even have a stance on that?

I try my best to live and let live bc I have my own flaws just like everyone else, but that would be pretty f**cked up if half the WNBA were born with dangling genitalia.

And just to add on, think about all the amazing male basketball players that are just too short to play in the nba. Guys like Marcus Howard, Myles Powell, Tyler ullis, Russ Smith. I know the best women players mentioned are taller than those guys but it just goes to show how one physical weakness would be exploited every trip down the floor. In women’s case strength would probably hurt more than height but height would hurt too bc they aren’t used to going up against every player being 6”2 and above with 7 footers who can jump like they are on pogo sticks.

Like dude said, Best white players in the big ten (mich/wise/Iowa) + timme and Kispert, would murder the women’s Olympic team. And that’s not even talking any nba players. No offense to women athletes it just is what it is.

 

[dukedevilz]

White NBA as in Luka, Jokic, Tyler Herro, Duncan Robinson, JJ Redick, Daniel Theis, Alex Caruso, and others?

Yeah, the gap between white NBA and black NBA is absurdly closer than white nba and the WNBA. The gap between black NBA and D2 men is closer than white NBA and WNBA.

Not to mention all of the European teams that defeated the United States in 2002, 2004, 2006, and 2019.

 

[dukedevilz]

Another thing to consider, is most of the WNBA players would be out of position in the NBA. The biggest difference between WNBA and NBA players, of course, is the size and athleticism. Britney Griner is a pretty dominant 5 in the WNBA. However, she has the size of a 3 for the NBA - and clearly doesn't have the skillset or agility needed for that position. Breanna Stewart and Candace Parker would be relegated to playing the two. That's not their strength. If left to their natural positions, just about all of the WNBA players would be wildly undersized before even considering the strength and speed components.

The US Women's National Soccer team lost to a Dallas U-15 boys club 5 to 2 a few years ago. The best women's team in the world couldn't stand toe-to-toe with a bunch of 8th and 9th graders. While the top female basketball players could beat most everyone on this board, they still wouldn't stand a chance against elite-level basketball players on the collegiate level.

 

[Crappy Davenpot]

A couple pretty good games tonight.
UL vs ND- UL must win
GT vs VT- VT coming out of covid lay-off

 

[Villian07]

Missing David Johnson with non-covid illness smdh. Hopefully we have some guys step up It would be nice to play one game with the projected preseason starting 5, but I guess some have had it worse than us.

 

[Crappy Davenpot]

Missing David Johnson with non-covid illness smdh. Hopefully we have some guys step up It would be nice to play one game with the projected preseason starting 5, but I guess some have had it worse than us.

Who is the front court guy missing all the lay ups and tips inside? Need more of those scoring.

 

[Villian07]

Withers or Traynor bother missed some bunnies.

Fortunately we got the win despite it, and VT lost which I don’t really know if I’m supposed to root for them to keep a quad 1 win or root against them so we pass them in the conf standings.

Even though he’s obv not 100% game shape, having Malik back helps so much. Allows withers to play the 4 instead of the 5. Let’s Sam slide to the 3 (2 tonight without DJ)

 

[Crappy Davenpot]

Withers was missing when I was watching. Williams looks like a good one. Nice win. Keep it going.

 

[Villian07]

Thanks our last 3 are tough, but I feel like we really only need 1/3 to go dancing.
@ Duke
@VT
Vs UVA

 

[Crappy Davenpot]

Thanks our last 3 are tough, but I feel like we really only need 1/3 to go dancing.
@ Duke
@VT
Vs UVA

Man they gave you guys a bit of a gauntlet there right at the end. VT staggered out of their nearly 3 week layoff. Duke is playing pretty well now and UVA...still UVA.

 

[dukedevilz]

We have the longest winning streak in the ACC. It's not going to last long, so might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

 

[supergreennole]

We have the longest winning streak in the ACC. It's not going to last long, so might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

Really wish there was a way to reschedule our game, I’d even be fine if it was at Cameron.

based on current standings, we would only see you in the finals if the tournament otherwise

 

[dukedevilz]

Really wish there was a way to reschedule our game, I’d even be fine if it was at Cameron.

based on current standings, we would only see you in the finals if the tournament otherwise

Still a lot of games to be played. We could easily play in the semifinals. If you guys lose to UNC this weekend, UVA jumps ahead of you. If we beat Louisville, we bump up to the 5 spot. I'd like to see the regular season game rescheduled, just not sure that's feasible with only 11 days left in the regular season.

 

[Villian07]

Yea not looking forward to going to duke but hey it can’t get any worse than when we went to Carolina so it is what it is. We’ve already beaten duke once so I guess them doing good helps us. Would be super nice to get a W sat and not have to stress but I’m not super optimistic.

 

[supergreennole]

Still a lot of games to be played. We could easily play in the semifinals. If you guys lose to UNC this weekend, UVA jumps ahead of you. If we beat Louisville, we bump up to the 5 spot. I'd like to see the regular season game rescheduled, just not sure that's feasible with only 11 days left in the regular season.

It’s not, and I know that the seeds are nearly finalized. I think is losing to UNC is reasonable this weekend although I’d like it to be because they played insane versus us not playing well. We didn’t have Barnes the first game and that should be impactful this time around

I think uva could lose at Louisville to finish the year although I wouldn’t bet the farm on it

 

[Villian07]

Mack may prove to be better at beating UVA than Pitino, but theyve really had our number since we joined the acc. They are our “rival” so we play em twice and I’m pretty certain we’ve never won at uva and only beat them at home 2-3 times at most. Hell it might only be 1.

So I wouldn’t count on us beating them, even if we are at home.

 

[supergreennole]

Mack may prove to be better at beating UVA than Pitino, but theyve really had our number since we joined the acc. They are our “rival” so we play em twice and I’m pretty certain we’ve never won at uva and only beat them at home 2-3 times at most. Hell it might only be 1.

So I wouldn’t count on us beating them, even if we are at home.

Yeah I just think Carlik and Johnson should be able to neutralize Clark

 

[GE Nole]

Still a lot of games to be played. We could easily play in the semifinals. If you guys lose to UNC this weekend, UVA jumps ahead of you. If we beat Louisville, we bump up to the 5 spot. I'd like to see the regular season game rescheduled, just not sure that's feasible with only 11 days left in the regular season.

What’s your thought on the UVA/UL game to end the year? Might very well decide the 1 seed in the ACCt (if FSU loses to UNC).

I would love to face Duke this year. Playing in early January at FSU would have been blowout city, but a game now would be pretty good I think.

 

[dukedevilz]

What’s your thought on the UVA/UL game to end the year? Might very well decide the 1 seed in the ACCt (if FSU loses to UNC).

I would love to face Duke this year. Playing in early January at FSU would have been blowout city, but a game now would be pretty good I think.

I like UL's guards. And playing at home should be helpful. But, I'd still give a slight edge to Virginia. UL has had serious continuity issues with injuries, only to be compounded by COVID rust. Outside of Johnson, they don't shoot the ball particularly well, either. And the pack line defense tends to force teams to take more shots from the perimeter. So, not sure I'm crazy about their chances. On a side note, I really wish Bennett would try to get more touches for Trey Murphy. Dude is so talented. Can't believe he's only getting 7 shot attempts per game.

I like FSU as a team better than UVA. However, if the two games that will decide the regular season title are the road games against Louisville and UNC, I think UVA might have the upper hand. Just think winning in Chapel Hill, given UNC's talent, is a much tougher task than winning in Louisville. If forced to pick a winner from both games, I'd pick both UVA and FSU to win each of those games. It very well might come down to the final game of the season to determine the conference regular season champion.

 

[supergreennole]

I like UL's guards. And playing at home should be helpful. But, I'd still give a slight edge to Virginia. UL has had serious continuity issues with injuries, only to be compounded by COVID rust. Outside of Johnson, they don't shoot the ball particularly well, either. And the pack line defense tends to force teams to take more shots from the perimeter. So, not sure I'm crazy about their chances. On a side note, I really wish Bennett would try to get more touches for Trey Murphy. Dude is so talented. Can't believe he's only getting 7 shot attempts per game.

I like FSU as a team better than UVA. However, if the two games that will decide the regular season title are the road games against Louisville and UNC, I think UVA might have the upper hand. Just think winning in Chapel Hill, given UNC's talent, is a much tougher task than winning in Louisville. If forced to pick a winner from both games, I'd pick both UVA and FSU to win each of those games. Just think UVA has higher odds of winning than FSU.

Yeah to be honest he was the only one that really flash for them when they played. Clark definitely had some plays and hauser hit a few shots but Murphy was the guy that was like OK he’s a pro and we need to focus on him in half quart sets that’s for sure

 

[dukedevilz]

Yeah to be honest he was the only one that really flash for them when they played. Clark definitely had some plays and hauser hit a few shots but Murphy was the guy that was like OK he’s a pro and we need to focus on him in half quart sets that’s for sure

Yeah, I don't get it. He's fourth on the team in shot attempts per game, but easily the most talented player. Most athletic - and has the best shooting percentages, too. If he plays well in March, I could see him being a first round pick. If not, maybe he comes back and performs at an All-American level next season.

 

[GE Nole]

I like UL's guards. And playing at home should be helpful. But, I'd still give a slight edge to Virginia. UL has had serious continuity issues with injuries, only to be compounded by COVID rust. Outside of Johnson, they don't shoot the ball particularly well, either. And the pack line defense tends to force teams to take more shots from the perimeter. So, not sure I'm crazy about their chances. On a side note, I really wish Bennett would try to get more touches for Trey Murphy. Dude is so talented. Can't believe he's only getting 7 shot attempts per game.

I like FSU as a team better than UVA. However, if the two games that will decide the regular season title are the road games against Louisville and UNC, I think UVA might have the upper hand. Just think winning in Chapel Hill, given UNC's talent, is a much tougher task than winning in Louisville. If forced to pick a winner from both games, I'd pick both UVA and FSU to win each of those games. It very well might come down to the final game of the season to determine the conference regular season champion.

Great stuff.

 

[GE Nole]

Yeah to be honest he was the only one that really flash for them when they played. Clark definitely had some plays and hauser hit a few shots but Murphy was the guy that was like OK he’s a pro and we need to focus on him in half quart sets that’s for sure

Agreed, Murphy stood out to me.