Top 5 foreign players in NBA history

[GE Nole]

The discussion on Dirk being better than anyone in this year's draft got me thinking--which foreign players have had the best NBA career? He's some initial thoughts (no particular order), but I'm really open to other opinions.

Tony Parker - 4x NBA champ, 4x all-NBA, NBA Finals MVP. Will be a HoF. Top 75 in career offensive and defensive win shares

Hakeem Olajuwon - 1x MVP, 2x DPoY, 2x NBA champ, 12x all-NBA, 2x NBA finals MVP. HoF. 4th all time in defensive win shares. 12th all time in VoRP.

Dirk Nowitzki - 1x MVP, 1x NBA Champ, NBA finals MVP, 12x all-NBA. Will be HoF. 6th all time in offensive win shares. 18th all time in VoRP

Manu Ginobli - 4x NBA champ, 2x all-NBA, 6th man of the year, all-rookie. 35th all time in VoRP.

Pau Gasol - 2x NBA champ, 4x all-NBA, Rookie of Year. 25th all time in VoRP. Top 45 in both offensive and defensive win shares.

Dikembe Mutombo - 4x DPoY, 3x all-NBA, 6x all-defense, HoF. 18th all time in defensive win shares, 59th all time in VoRP.

 

[UKcats1988]

Off the top of my head

Hakeem
Dirk
Nash
Parker
Pau

 

[WeAreDePaul]

The discussion on Dirk being better than anyone in this year's draft got me thinking--which foreign players have had the best NBA career? He's some initial thoughts (no particular order), but I'm really open to other opinions.

Tony Parker - 4x NBA champ, 4x all-NBA, NBA Finals MVP. Will be a HoF. Top 75 in career offensive and defensive win shares

Hakeem Olajuwon - 1x MVP, 2x DPoY, 2x NBA champ, 12x all-NBA, 2x NBA finals MVP. HoF. 4th all time in defensive win shares. 12th all time in VoRP.

Dirk Nowitzki - 1x MVP, 1x NBA Champ, NBA finals MVP, 12x all-NBA. Will be HoF. 6th all time in offensive win shares. 18th all time in VoRP

Manu Ginobli - 4x NBA champ, 2x all-NBA, 6th man of the year, all-rookie. 35th all time in VoRP.

Pau Gasol - 2x NBA champ, 4x all-NBA, Rookie of Year. 25th all time in VoRP. Top 45 in both offensive and defensive win shares.

Dikembe Mutombo - 4x DPoY, 3x all-NBA, 6x all-defense, HoF. 18th all time in defensive win shares, 59th all time in VoRP.

leave it to a FSU grad to not know Canada is a country

Do you even know where Boise is?

 

[toonces11]

OT---but I wonder what player in the NBA (all time), received the most attention and national recognition---with the most marginal numbers

 

[GE Nole]

Off the top of my head

Hakeem
Dirk
Nash
Parker
Pau

Steve Nash, good one. He definitely is in the top 5.

 

[GE Nole]

leave it to a FSU grad to not know Canada is a country

Do you even know where Boise is?

I just posted stats for the first 6 who came to mind. I'm not suggesting all 6 of those are the best. I totally blanked on Steve Nash and he's definitely in the top 3-5.

 

[dukedevilz]

1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Patrick Ewing
4. Steve Nash
5. Tony Parker

Too bad we never get to see Oscar Schmidt or a young Arvydas Sabonis in the league... I'm counting Ewing because he didn't come to the States until he was 12 - and he didn't grow up playing basketball.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

I just posted stats for the first 6 who came to mind. I'm not suggesting all 6 of those are the best. I totally blanked on Steve Nash and he's definitely in the top 3-5.

just busting your balls.

 

[GE Nole]

1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Dirk Nowitzki
3. Patrick Ewing
4. Steve Nash
5. Tony Parker

Too bad we never get to see Oscar Schmidt or a young Arvydas Sabonis in the league... I'm counting Ewing because he didn't come to the States until he was 12 - and he didn't grow up playing basketball.

Ewing was foreign? I didn't realize that.

 

[GE Nole]

I was surprised at how well Manu stacks up win you really look at his stats. He's 60 spots higher on VoRP than Nash.

 

[coryfly]

Yinka Dare.

 

[NVBoilerFan]

Dennis Rodman - North Korea

 

[Silent Banjo]

The discussion on Dirk being better than anyone in this year's draft got me thinking--which foreign players have had the best NBA career? He's some initial thoughts (no particular order), but I'm really open to other opinions.

Tony Parker - 4x NBA champ, 4x all-NBA, NBA Finals MVP. Will be a HoF. Top 75 in career offensive and defensive win shares

Hakeem Olajuwon - 1x MVP, 2x DPoY, 2x NBA champ, 12x all-NBA, 2x NBA finals MVP. HoF. 4th all time in defensive win shares. 12th all time in VoRP.

Dirk Nowitzki - 1x MVP, 1x NBA Champ, NBA finals MVP, 12x all-NBA. Will be HoF. 6th all time in offensive win shares. 18th all time in VoRP

Manu Ginobli - 4x NBA champ, 2x all-NBA, 6th man of the year, all-rookie. 35th all time in VoRP.

Pau Gasol - 2x NBA champ, 4x all-NBA, Rookie of Year. 25th all time in VoRP. Top 45 in both offensive and defensive win shares.

Dikembe Mutombo - 4x DPoY, 3x all-NBA, 6x all-defense, HoF. 18th all time in defensive win shares, 59th all time in VoRP.

Just a matter of time before Ben Simmons and Greek Freak crash that list. Some people think that that also applied to Luka Doncic, but I'll reserve judgment about that.

 

[Dattier]

Kobe, Duncan, Kyrie, Ewing, Olajuwan

 

[dukedevilz]

lots of good, young international players in the league right now.

Giannis, 23, Greece
Ben Simmons, 21, Australia
Joel Embiid, 24, Cameroon
Kristaps Porzingis, 22, Latvia
Nikola Jokic, 23, Serbia

Certainly Luka Doncic is one to watch... but let's not forget that DeAndre Ayton is from the Bahamas. He'll be a star.

 

[dukedevilz]

Kobe, Duncan, Kyrie, Ewing, Olajuwan

That's a little loose on qualifying players as international, IMO.

Kyrie left Australia when he was 2. Kobe didn't go to Italy til he was 6, and even then he wasn't there the whole time. Tim Duncan is from the VI, but that is a US Territory.

 

[GE Nole]

Kobe, Duncan, Kyrie, Ewing, Olajuwan

Umm...Kobe was born in Philly and played high school ball in Philly. Maybe we should look and see if some other NBA greats did a study abroad for a year, get them on the foreign list too?

Duncan was born and grew up on a U.S. Territory. I guess that's at least arguable but not really in the spirit of what we are talking about. He represented the USA in international competition.

 

[GE Nole]

lots of good, young international players in the league right now.

Giannis, 23, Greece
Ben Simmons, 21, Australia
Joel Embiid, 24, Cameroon
Kristaps Porzingis, 22, Latvia
Nikola Jokic, 23, Serbia

Certainly Luka Doncic is one to watch... but let's not forget that DeAndre Ayton is from the Bahamas. He'll be a star.

The NBA as a whole has as much good, young talent as I can ever remember. And a lot of that has to do with how much more global the game has become. There's some great ball being played in other countries.

 

[Silent Banjo]

The discussion on Dirk being better than anyone in this year's draft got me thinking--which foreign players have had the best NBA career? He's some initial thoughts (no particular order), but I'm really open to other opinions.

Tony Parker - 4x NBA champ, 4x all-NBA, NBA Finals MVP. Will be a HoF. Top 75 in career offensive and defensive win shares

Hakeem Olajuwon - 1x MVP, 2x DPoY, 2x NBA champ, 12x all-NBA, 2x NBA finals MVP. HoF. 4th all time in defensive win shares. 12th all time in VoRP.

Dirk Nowitzki - 1x MVP, 1x NBA Champ, NBA finals MVP, 12x all-NBA. Will be HoF. 6th all time in offensive win shares. 18th all time in VoRP

Manu Ginobli - 4x NBA champ, 2x all-NBA, 6th man of the year, all-rookie. 35th all time in VoRP.

Pau Gasol - 2x NBA champ, 4x all-NBA, Rookie of Year. 25th all time in VoRP. Top 45 in both offensive and defensive win shares.

Dikembe Mutombo - 4x DPoY, 3x all-NBA, 6x all-defense, HoF. 18th all time in defensive win shares, 59th all time in VoRP.

I noticed that you've consistently cited the VoRP statistic. How valid do you think it is in measuring the merits of an NBA player? Obviously, based on those listed, there's a strong correlation between being very good and having a high VoRP ranking, but Lebron leads everyone by a gaping margin (more than 20 points over second place Michael Jordan). Certainly, that goes against the generally held belief that Jordan is clearly the greatest. I'm not advocating anything or drawing a conclusion. Would just be interested in your view.

 

[dukedevilz]

Umm...Kobe was born in Philly and played high school ball in Philly. Maybe we should look and see if some other NBA greats did a study abroad for a year, get them on the foreign list too?

Shaq lived in Germany for a couple years; his stepfather was a sergeant in the US Army. He and Dirk would have made a killer 1-2 punch for Deutschland.

 

[Dattier]

That's a little loose on qualifying players as international, IMO.

That was the goal.

Umm...Kobe was born in Philly and played high school ball in Philly. Maybe we should look and see if some other NBA greats did a study abroad for a year, get them on the foreign list too?

Duncan was born and grew up on a U.S. Territory. I guess that's at least arguable but not really in the spirit of what we are talking about. He represented the USA in international competition.

Shoot, for some reason I thought Kobe was born in Italy.

 

[FVTgoWV]

No mention of Toni Kukoč? Idk if he would be top 5 but he's a 3x NBA champ

 

[GE Nole]

I noticed that you've consistently cited the VoRP statistic. How valid do you think it is in measuring the merits of an NBA player? Obviously, based on those listed, there's a strong correlation between being very good and having a high VoRP ranking, but Lebron leads everyone by a gaping margin (more than 20 points over second place Michael Jordan). Certainly, that goes against the generally held belief that Jordan is clearly the greatest. I'm not advocating anything or drawing a conclusion. Would just be interested in your view.

I don't think it's the end all be all stat, but it's nice to include in the basket of stats that one might look at to judge an overall body of work. Especially when comparing across eras.

Lebron's gap over MJ is too wide for me. However, I think it's pretty obvious which player was more important to their team's general success. That's not the same as "better player," just who was more valuable to their team.

The year after MJ left the Bulls the first time, Scottie led them to 55 wins and game 7 of the Eastern Con Semis.
The year after Lebron left the Cavs for the first time, the Cavs won 19 games and finished 15th in the East.

If Lebron had a guy like Scottie on his team in Cleveland the first time, they would have won 3 or 4 straight titles. People bag on him for losing NBA Finals, but the reality is he was dragging what would have been lotto teams to the Finals.

 

[GE Nole]

No mention of Toni Kukoč? Idk if he would be top 5 but he's a 3x NBA champ

I liked Toni, but based on some of these other stats I don't think he would even be top 10. Would you rank him above any of:
Hakeem
Ewing
Tony Parker
Gasol
Nash
Manu
Dirk
Mutumbo
Ming

Heck, the Greek Freak might already be above what Kukoc did.

 

[Silent Banjo]

I don't think it's the end all be all stat, but it's nice to include in the basket of stats that one might look at to judge an overall body of work. Especially when comparing across eras.

Lebron's gap over MJ is too wide for me. However, I think it's pretty obvious which player was more important to their team's general success. That's not the same as "better player," just who was more valuable to their team.

The year after MJ left the Bulls the first time, Scottie led them to 55 wins and game 7 of the Eastern Con Semis.
The year after Lebron left the Cavs for the first time, the Cavs won 19 games and finished 15th in the East.

If Lebron had a guy like Scottie on his team in Cleveland the first time, they would have won 3 or 4 straight titles. People bag on him for losing NBA Finals, but the reality is he was dragging what would have been lotto teams to the Finals.

Thanks for the detailed response.

I agree. Jordan always had Pippen, voted a top 50 all time player and when they were together clearly a top 5 player in the game. Lebron once took the Cavs to the Finals against the Spurs with his best teammate being Larry Hughes, which is ridiculous.

 

[GE Nole]

Thanks for the detailed response.

I agree. Jordan always had Pippen, voted a top 50 all time player and when they were together clearly a top 5 player in the game. Lebron once took the Cavs to the Finals against the Spurs with his best teammate being Larry Hughes, which is ridiculous.

Exactly. And when Jordan didn't have Pippen, the bulls didn't make the Finals.

 

[Big_Blue79]

I noticed that you've consistently cited the VoRP statistic. How valid do you think it is in measuring the merits of an NBA player? Obviously, based on those listed, there's a strong correlation between being very good and having a high VoRP ranking, but Lebron leads everyone by a gaping margin (more than 20 points over second place Michael Jordan). Certainly, that goes against the generally held belief that Jordan is clearly the greatest. I'm not advocating anything or drawing a conclusion. Would just be interested in your view.

Isn't Vorp cumulative? LeBron's played a lot of minutes, and Jordan both entered the league later and missed 100 games of his prime.

 

[GE Nole]

Isn't Vorp cumulative? LeBron's played a lot of minutes, and Jordan both entered the league later and missed 100 games of his prime.

Career VoRP is, yes.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Isn't Vorp cumulative? LeBron's played a lot of minutes, and Jordan both entered the league later and missed 100 games of his prime.

Don't know enough about it, but I'd think Jordan, who entered the league after his junior year, came in when he was ideally more mature and a finished product. Lebron came in right out of high school, so you'd think he'd be expected to have a greater adjustment. Even superstars coming out of high school like Kobe had to be eased in gradually.

 

[RondoBaller21]

Dirk is the best foreign player of all time! It would take someone really special to steal that title from him.

 

[wrbchWolfPack81]

Dominique Wilkins - France

 

[Silent Banjo]

Dirk is the best foreign player of all time! It would take someone really special to steal that title from him.

You really think Dirk ranks higher than Hakeem? I think a poll over who was better would be pretty lopsided in favor of Hakeem.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Don't know enough about it, but I'd think Jordan, who entered the league after his junior year, came in when he was ideally more mature and a finished product. Lebron came in right out of high school, so you'd think he'd be expected to have a greater adjustment. Even superstars coming out of high school like Kobe had to be eased in gradually.

That would lead Jordan to have better rate stats, but not cumulative stats. Like how Jordan has the best PPG, but Kareem has most total points. Career VORP is like total points.

 

[Silent Banjo]

That would lead Jordan to have better rate stats, but not cumulative stats. Like how Jordan has the best PPG, but Kareem has most total points. Career VORP is like total points.

I do know that James has 4 of the 5 highest single season VORP stats (Tim Duncan has the highest, in 2003). Jordan has the 7th highest. Jordan may have the highest PPG, but he took more than three shots a game to get his three point margin over Lebron. Of course, Lebron may have benefited from playing in a greater three-point-centric era.

 

[GE Nole]

That would lead Jordan to have better rate stats, but not cumulative stats. Like how Jordan has the best PPG, but Kareem has most total points. Career VORP is like total points.

I think that's an overly simplistic description of VoRP. Yes, a longer career can help. But if you are performing poorly, the extra games can actually hurt you. It's your value relative to a replacement player. If you are a below average player for your position, your VoRP will get lower.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Off the top of my head

Hakeem
Dirk
Nash
Parker
Pau

Going by a Fansided article from 2015, these are the states that I think could compete with that in terms of top 5 players:


California
Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Paul Pierce, George Yardley, Bill Walton
Louisiana
Joe Dumars, Clyde Drexler, Elvin Hayes, Karl Malone, Bill Russell
New York
Lenny Wilkens, Bernard King, Julius Irving, Dolph Schayes, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
North Carolina
Stephen Curry, Michael Jordan, James Worthy, Bob McAdoo, Walt Bellamy
Pennsylvania
Earl Monroe, Pete Maravich, Kobe Bryant, Rasheed Wallace, Wilt Chamberlain
Virginia
Allen Iverson, Bob Dandridge, Alonzo Mourning, Moses Malone, David Robinson

 

[Silent Banjo]

Going by a Fansided article from 2015, these are the states that I think could compete with that in terms of top 5 players:


California
Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Paul Pierce, George Yardley, Bill Walton
Louisiana
Joe Dumars, Clyde Drexler, Elvin Hayes, Karl Malone, Bill Russell
New York
Lenny Wilkens, Bernard King, Julius Irving, Dolph Schayes, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
North Carolina
Stephen Curry, Michael Jordan, James Worthy, Bob McAdoo, Walt Bellamy
Pennsylvania
Earl Monroe, Pete Maravich, Kobe Bryant, Rasheed Wallace, Wilt Chamberlain
Virginia
Allen Iverson, Bob Dandridge, Alonzo Mourning, Moses Malone, David Robinson

Illinois, certainly now, should be included with this group.

Isiah Thomas, Dwyane Wade, Anthony Davis, George Mikan, Dan Issell

 

[dukedevilz]

Going by a Fansided article from 2015, these are the states that I think could compete with that in terms of top 5 players:


California
Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Paul Pierce, George Yardley, Bill Walton
Louisiana
Joe Dumars, Clyde Drexler, Elvin Hayes, Karl Malone, Bill Russell
New York
Lenny Wilkens, Bernard King, Julius Irving, Dolph Schayes, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
North Carolina
Stephen Curry, Michael Jordan, James Worthy, Bob McAdoo, Walt Bellamy
Pennsylvania
Earl Monroe, Pete Maravich, Kobe Bryant, Rasheed Wallace, Wilt Chamberlain
Virginia
Allen Iverson, Bob Dandridge, Alonzo Mourning, Moses Malone, David Robinson

Pretty ridiculous lists, to be honest. I wonder what other states could feature? Very impressive for Louisiana considering they're the 25th most populous state. Although I would probably qualify Drexler as a Texas native, despite being born in Louisiana.

Also, I might insert Russell Westbrook or James Harden in California. I would also probably take Chris Paul over Walt Bellamy for North Carolina.

 

[dukedevilz]

I might also take Grant Hill over Bob Dandridge and Paul Arizin over Rasheed Wallace... Here are a couple more states that are note-worthy:

Ohio:
John Havlicek, LeBron James, Alex Groza, Jerry Lucas, Nate Thurmond (LeBron and a bunch of old-timers)

Michigan:
Magic Johnson, George Gervin, Dave DeBusschere, Chris Webber, Mel Daniels

New Jersey:
Kyrie Irving, Rick Barry, Tom Heinsohn, Karl-Anthony Towns, Shaquille O'neal

 

[dukedevilz]

Talent in North Carolina over the years is crazy.

1st-Team
Steph Curry (2x MVP, 2x NBA Champ)
Chris Paul (9x All-Star)
Michael Jordan (5x MVP, 6x NBA Champ)
James Worthy (7x NBA All-Star, 3x NBA Champ)
Bob McAdoo (1x MVP, 2x NBA Champ)

2nd-Team
Sam Jones (5x All-Star, 10x NBA Champ)
Lou Hudson (6x All-Star)
Walter Davis (6x All-Star)
David Thompson (4x All-Star)
Walt Bellamy (4x All-Star)

3rd-Team
John Wall (5x All-Star)
Jerry Stackhouse (2x All-Star)
Happy Hairston (15 ppg/10 reb over 11 yrs)
Danny Manning (2x All-Star)
Brad Daugherty (5x All-Star)

Some fairly promising young NBA players from NC:
TJ Warren, Hassan Whiteside, Dennis Smith, Brandon Ingram