I'd still like to see the Raptors makeone more move, draw a line in the sand and go for it. Package a deal together for Jimmy Butler and go for broke!
PG: Kyle Lowry
SG: Jimmy Butler
SF: Kawhi Leonard
F: OG Anunoby
F: Jose Valanciunas
Spurs Trade Kawhi, Green to Toronto for DeRozan, Poetl, Pick
- Thread starter Big_Blue79
- Start date
I'd still like to see the Raptors makeone more move, draw a line in the sand and go for it. Package a deal together for Jimmy Butler and go for broke!
PG: Kyle Lowry
SG: Jimmy Butler
SF: Kawhi Leonard
F: OG Anunoby
F: Jose Valanciunas
You know Bron left the East right. Thinking he might have been a small part of why they never made the Finals.
Go either right before Halloween or right after.
I've got fam in OKC, the couple of times we've gone we go right after Halloween, early season and the weather isn't terrible yet..
anon_0astpxev9h4gk
Well-Known Member
DeRozen was not just bad in the playoffs; he was predictably bad. His style does not work when teams clamp down, and Cleveland hunted him down on D because he was the weakest link.
Fluidity just sounds gross. Chemistry, please.
They certainly did last year. Masai is really good at maximizing their draft picks.
Stop it. Lowry hasn't been good in the playoffs, but he's been better than DeRozan by every available metric in each of the last 3 playoffs: PER, WS/48, BPM, VORP. Box Plus Minus has Lowry at about 3.3, DeRozan at about -3. That's a huge gulf.
Dwayne Casey has to be pissed.
Demar played poorly. Yes, Lebron was the reason the Cavs won, but maybe if DD played well..........?
Lowry strikes me as the type who wants to win. Guessing he's just fine with KL joining the team.
Lebron is why the Cavs won, but not a reason Demar was as bad as he was....JR guarded Demar more than Lebron did.
It could happen, but SA lost an MVP caliber player for a guy with a very bad contract....and they only have him one more year, correct?
Not saying SA made a bad deal...might have been the best they could do.
Yea that is what I was thinking. I have seen avg temps in late October between 50-60 for highs and 40's at night.
I think they were okay taking less if it meant sending Kawhi to a team in the east. They wouldn’t have taken this deal had it been the Lakers or another rival in the West.
I'm not so sure.....just like the cavs with Kyrie, we don't know if they had better offers. I think SA would have made the best deal for them, no matter where he went.
anon_0astpxev9h4gk
Well-Known Member
Eh, not sure I can agree on this. I think sending him to a rival definitely played a factor. Let’s just compare for fun, do you think if the Lakers had offered Ingram and Hart and a 1st, do you think the Spurs would have taken that?? I think they wanted a whole lot more from LA than they took from Toronto.
All things equal, of course, they trade him to Toronto. If the Spurs really like those players and think it's a better package he'd make that deal over the Derozan deal IMO.
Exit LeBron, enter a Celtics superteam whose 5 starters all rank within the top 15 players in the East for 2018/19.
The Raptors needed to do something or they would have been bludgeoned by the Celtics in predictable fashion.
PG13 resigned with OKC...you never know if Leonard will fall in love with Toronto.
Total non factor trade, Celtics will still cruise in the East. Spurs should have let them keep DeRozan, Raptors go all in for one more crack at breaking through to the Finals, and did some type of 3 way deal where they got a ton of picks. The tank should be on in San Antonio for the first time in 20+ years and it might be time for Popovich to consider a Pat Riley role instead of a coaching role. Think about the reality in SA:
Middling playoff team even with Leonard
A great coach who is seeing to see the game pass him by (I mean the trio of Erik Spoelstra, David Blatt, and Tyronn Lue has been to 8 straight finals... clearly a players league)
They somehow still give minutes to Manu Ginobili
For the first time ever, players are trying to kick the door down to get out of San Antonio
Middling playoff team even with Leonard
A great coach who is seeing to see the game pass him by (I mean the trio of Erik Spoelstra, David Blatt, and Tyronn Lue has been to 8 straight finals... clearly a players league)
They somehow still give minutes to Manu Ginobili
For the first time ever, players are trying to kick the door down to get out of San Antonio
How are the Cs "still cruising"? when have they cruised? sure, they went further than Toronto last year, but only because they faced Lebron and the Cavs after Toronto based on being seeded lower than Toronto.
Been a while since Toronto lost to a team in the East that did not have Lebron on it in the playoffs.
Agree 100% on it being about the players much more than the coaches.
I mean they just went 7 games in the conference finals without arguably their best player in Kyrie, and another at bare minimum starter, and potentially a team leader in Hayward, and now LeBron who literally beat the entire conference single handedly is out west. Unless a flurry of injuries hit the Celtics again, they are going to cruise in the East, the only resistance is potentially Philly because they were so young last year and therefore have the potential to hit another gear even though their team will essentially be the same. Yes Leonard is an upgrade over DeRozan, but is he enough to bring them two more rounds because of a straight swap? Probably not. I also wouldn't be surprised if the Raptors are sellers at the deadline anyway when the Lakers are floating barely above .500 and need to do something to keep LeBron from flipping out.
do they need 2 more rounds, or just to avoid Lebron and the Cavs...the only team who has beaten them in quite some time if memory serves?
You don't win 59 games by accident and it would seem adding Kawhi makes them better.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them move Kawhi, but will have to do with them. They wont care about Lebron or LA. If they look to be a Finals favorite, I could see them standing pat.
I don't think that's the case but everyone is entitled to their opinion, I think its more of the case that they just happened to run into the Cavs in the 2nd round each of the last two years more so than the narrative is only LeBron can stop the Raptors. They were swept twice in a row in the 2nd round and last year's Cavs were pretty weak (7 game series in the first round and ECF, but they sweep Toronto?), their peak was 2016 and have been in a subtle decline since that point, and even at their peak needed 7 games to get past old man Wade in the 2nd round. Again, Leonard gives them a shot in the arm and much needed Championship level experience, but when they deal off an asset to get him, I don't think it brings the team to that much higher of a level, Kawhi is not LeBron, the Spurs didn't completely collapse when he started sitting out games.
I’d add to your argument that the Raptors have always given Boston all they can handle. Derozan was a big part of that but Leonard is a much better all around player IMO and he has been pretty good in his career against Boston from what I can remember.I personally believe they needed Kawhi to keep in pace with Boston and Philly. The Raptors should be considered a legit threat in the east now.
I really don't get why so many are ripping them for this deal.
If my team had never been to the Finals and had a chance to improve the team to give them a shot to be among the conference favorites I'd be pissed if they didn't do it.
could they lose Kawhi after the season? Of course. But they could also move him at the deadline if they don't like how things are going.
Only one who should be pissed is Casey. Gets let go and they add Kawhi and Lebron leaves the East? Ouch.
I will say this..... What if Kawhi comes in and plays the best season he ever has. Danny Green gives them what he gave the Spurs. To go along with Ibaka , Valancunias , Lowry , CJ Miles , Anunoby. It's a nice roster , I actually think they will be better than Philly. They somehow get by the Celtics and make the Finals? The Raptors will have an actual tangible sales pitch to make to Leonard to keep him.
Package a deal for Jimmy Butler and it's a compelling sales pitch. Siakam, Anunoby and Wright are really valuable, young pieces.
Compelling? Eh. Maybe at the deadline but not right now when Minny could get much better value for Butler.
I've mostly agreed with you but not here. Minny could get far more for Butler I would think.
From who? That's the big question. Chicago didn't get a ton for him retrospect. Toronto just got a top 5 player in the world for Derozan, a backup center and a top 20 protected pick. Butler will go for less than Leonard.
Maybe it's that I don't think all that much of Siakam and Annunoby. If they are better than I think, perhaps.
I'd package Ibaka, Anunoby and one of Miles / Green and a 1st and see if you can get it done... Jimmy Butler and Amile Jefferson thr other way.
Butler as the 2 guard with Lowry at the point and Leonard at the 3, would be excellent....
PG: Kyle Lowry / Fred Van Vleet
SG: Jimmy Butler / Danny Green
SF: Kawhi Leonard / Norm Powell
F: Pascal Siakam / Amile Jefferson
F: Jonas Valanciunas / Lucas Nogeira
One can dream!
As I said, I think very little of OG as well as Ibaka and Miles, but sure what the heck?
