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OT: West Virginia teacher's strike

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My guess is the ratio of lazy and bad to deserving of a raise is much better in teaching than in most jobs in our nation. Simply put, its nearly impossible to be a lazy teacher. Of COURSE there are some (gym teachers, I'm looking at you!) but its a REALLY hard job to be lazy in.

Nobody gets into teaching for vacations or the pay, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take care of our teachers and their families. Take care of your teachers and they will repay it ten times over, directly to the most important people in our lives.
I can get behind this. From my experience you are probably right. There are tons of lazy people in my industry, definitely a lower ratio than teaching. But even just in my high school, we had English teachers, history teachers, foreign language teachers, you name it, that did the bare minimum and I didn't learn a thing from. So I think you may be underestimating that just a tad. I guess if you really got down to it I would be behind a raise. My mom is a teacher and works her butt off, I know she deserves more than what she's getting.
 
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I can get behind this. From my experience you are probably right. There are tons of lazy people in my industry, definitely a lower ratio than teaching. But even just in my high school, we had English teachers, history teachers, foreign language teachers, you name it, that did the bare minimum and I didn't learn a thing from. So I think you may be underestimating that just a tad. I guess if you really got down to it I would be behind a raise. My mom is a teacher and works her butt off, I know she deserves more than what she's getting.

I do wonder... is it the teachers who work with the older kids who are lazier? I know that sounds terrible, but you simply can't be lazy with a classroom full of 9 year olds who need you to guide everything, whereas with a classroom full of 16 year olds you can get away with "Read this book and do this."
 
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And yes, people CAN get into a profession and then want to improve it. Saying otherwise is just moronic. Not sure how anyone on the planet could possibly take the stance of "Well, you got into this job, so no complaining about it ever!" In fact, those who care about it have a RESPONSIBILITY to "complain" because we know how important it is and we see that it is dying out.

The problem is its not dying out. If it was salaries would go up. Its an easy degree for people that fall short, people who don't really want to work in the real world. There's taking a job knowing the pay there isn't up to par, then there's getting a degree and getting into a career that doesn't pay.
 
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I get some of you are close to teachers so of course you get protective but its basically like the people in public that smell like shit. They don't smell it because they're used to it, but in reality they smell like shit and need a shower.
 
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I do wonder... is it the teachers who work with the older kids who are lazier? I know that sounds terrible, but you simply can't be lazy with a classroom full of 9 year olds who need you to guide everything, whereas with a classroom full of 16 year olds you can get away with "Read this book and do this."
As the teaching becomes less hands on, the higher the chance you're going to get a teacher who is lazy and doesn't care. At least from my experience. I never thought my teachers in middle school were lazy or anything. Its almost like they can't be lazy when they're with younger kids, because the young ones have to rely on others in order to learn. Where as in high school, you can tell a kid to read a book and you don't really have to guide them along the way. If that makes sense.
 
I get some of you are close to teachers so of course you get protective but its basically like the people in public that smell like shit. They don't smell it because they're used to it, but in reality they smell like shit and need a shower.
first off, **** you for starting a semi-political thread less than a week from selection Sunday... but that's funny and somewhat true.
 
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first off, **** you for starting a semi-political thread less than a week from selection Sunday... but that's funny and somewhat true.

I don't really see it as political, it does have some tie ins i agree, but think that in reality our kids education is something that people can agree everyone really does want whats best, so therefore all our ideas and suggestions are good in nature and should be taken seriously, i'm just one of those who feel the wv teachers are out of line. Do they really care about there kids welfare when they think not teaching them anything for two weeks while they sit on their ass asking for money while not teaching. Seems odd no?
 
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The problem is its not dying out. If it was salaries would go up. Its an easy degree for people that fall short, people who don't really want to work in the real world. There's taking a job knowing the pay there isn't up to par, then there's getting a degree and getting into a career that doesn't pay.

Uh... I guess you don't keep up with what is happening with teacher applications and numbers and all of that. That's fine; keep posting like you know something but you don't.

I get some of you are close to teachers so of course you get protective but its basically like the people in public that smell like shit. They don't smell it because they're used to it, but in reality they smell like shit and need a shower.

I know bullshit when I smell it, and what you post? It's bullshit.

And what I love is that its ONLY teachers, amirite? If soldiers say "Shit, we need better body armor, we need to loosen the ROEs, and the VA needs reforming!" do you think Bull starts saying "No, you knew what you signed up for, you just smell like shit but don't know it!"

Nope.

Anyway... can likely just ignore you and get some interesting discussion out of this thread.
 
I have never met a doctor who was dumb.
I'm a doctor and know quite a few. It's all due to letting people in to med school who have no business being there (purely due to race/gender and not merit).

I've been on medical school selection committee, so I know this to be true. I wouldn't let some of the people I graduated with take care of a hamster, much less a human life.

But that's why they end up practicing Family Med in Timbucktoo (after finally passing boards with 3+ tries).
 
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I'm a teacher as well and I didn't get into teaching for the summers off & certainly not the pay. I'm not necessarily upset about pay or lack of raises. What I am upset about, (as mentioned above), is that they are constantly putting more & more demands on teachers while constantly taking pay or benefits away. Here are just a few:
- When I first started teaching, we received ABC money which was a bonus for test scores by schools. It was about $1000 per year for my school and since has been taken away.
- We used to receive a longevity stipend for teaching 10+ years that has since been taken away.
- We used to receive tenure in my county which has since been taken away.
- The school system used to pay for us to get our masters degree which has been taken away.
- We use to get a raise if you had your masters degree which has been taken away.
- I used to receive $1000 per year (computer teacher) for supplies for my room. It was reduced to $750, then $400, and now we get nothing and just have to make a request if we need something (which may/may not happen).
- We used to have a yearly step up in pay which has been taken away.
- When I first started teaching my insurance was free and now I pay yearly (though it's not much, it's still not free anymore).
- I had to take my wife off the State Health Plan because premiums got so high that she could get her own policy cheaper.

These are just SOME of the things that have been taken away during my 13 year career as a teacher. I could sit here all day listing responsibilities that have been ADDED, but just don't have the time to type all that. People keep saying "you knew what you were signing up for" and that's the problem, we aren't getting what we signed up for.
 
I'm a doctor and know quite a few. It's all due to letting people in to med school who have no business being there (purely due to race/gender and not merit).

I've been on medical school selection committee, so I know this to be true. I wouldn't let some of the people I graduated with take care of a hamster, much less a human life.

But that's why they end up practicing Family Med in Timbucktoo (after finally passing boards with 3+ tries).
Well I guess that sort of puts me in my place.

The chemical grads that I went to undergrad school with and who became doctors were very bright. Of course maybe I am too dumb to judge them.
 
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I didn't realize @TheDude1 was a teacher... and left an executive level job to be a teacher... all that stuff he said about young girls in the off-season just got waaaaay more creepy.

tenor.gif
 
Yesterday:

It's not the off season yet. Can we save the stupid posts for after basketball ends? I would love to wait a few more weeks before having to listen to Bull's typical angry, uninformed, inexperienced rants.


Also yesterday:

As someone with the rare experience of having been both in an executive role in a high pressure, high visibility field, as well as in public education, I am in a somewhat unique spot in terms of meaningful, real experience-based evaluating of the teaching profession in comparison to the private sector.

There is certainly a lot that we can ask of the teaching profession, in terms of improvement. But overall the job is one with nearly impossible expectations, often undertaken for rather less money than one would see in a job of equivalent importance in the private sector (what is of equivalent importance being debatable, but unless you are a fool you see some real merit in education as a profession) and one that is of a level of exhaustion-causing that is impossible to truly understand unless you’ve spent all day, every day, for decades or even years or even months or even a few days as the sole adult trying to lead 25 some odd children to do something meaningful and difficult and required of them, not to mention being a mentor, role model, parent, protector, judge, and friend, for life.

Not all teachers are great. But a great teacher means a great lot.



What a ******* weirdo. Pretends to not want to talk about the subject to insult Da_Bull and then dives head first into the subject later that day.
 
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I think one could argue 1 neo Nazi teacher isn't as significant as an overwhelmingly majority of academia spewing far left ideology. I also think 1 could argue far left ideology spewed by a growing population in academia will cause more far right ideology to arise as well. Both being awful and detrimental to youths of course
Why not focus on the example I provided, rather than rushing to focus on lib'ruls?
 
I don't really see it as political, it does have some tie ins i agree, but think that in reality our kids education is something that people can agree everyone really does want whats best, so therefore all our ideas and suggestions are good in nature and should be taken seriously, i'm just one of those who feel the wv teachers are out of line. Do they really care about there kids welfare when they think not teaching them anything for two weeks while they sit on their ass asking for money while not teaching. Seems odd no?
Everything is political. Disparaging teachers -- public school teachers -- ties in w/ movements to resegregate and to turn a profit. A one-sided view of Affirmative Action has also been mentioned. It won't be long before someone claims undocumented immigrants' kids are destroying schools.

Strikes are about the willingness to do something inconvenient now for the long-term greater good. And it's not like other options haven't been tried first.
 
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It's a tough one because you can't pay teachers necessarily by grades or test scores. If it were the private sector and we were talking bottom line, you could do that. But reality in place like Louisville or most US cities is that the poor schools have kids with much bigger challenges. I'm talking immigrant kids, drug babies, kids from chaotic homes, kids with hereditary learning disabilities, kids who don't even eat at home... the stories I hear from my friends (and parents) teaching in public schools are unbelievable and nothing I just listed is slightly unusual at many urban (and rural) schools. So then how do you pay per performance if it's extremely difficult to even conclude expectations given all conditions involved?
 
It’s interesting to read a thread where teachers post about how hard they work and how difficult/demanding their job is. Especially when you realize that they’re posting on a message board during the school day. Me thinks someone may be embellishing.
 
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This is kind of where I'm at. Granted, there are some really bad and lazy teachers out there, but there are also some amazing people who truly do care about the well being and future of their students. Its tough to say whether teachers deserve a pay raise, because you have some that do and you have some that shouldn't even be in the profession.

For every one teacher that I actually think cared, I could name you ten more who didn't give two shits.

In 7th grade, my math teacher just put on movies and slept off his hangovers on his couch in the classroom.
 
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Everything is political. Disparaging teachers -- public school teachers -- ties in w/ movements to resegregate and to turn a profit. A one-sided view of Affirmative Action has also been mentioned. It won't be long before someone claims undocumented immigrants' kids are destroying schools.

Strikes are about the willingness to do something inconvenient now for the long-term greater good. And it's not like other options haven't been tried first.

Everything has politics involved at some point but every conversation isn't about the politics of it.
 
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For every one teacher that I actually think cared, I could name you ten more who didn't give two shits.

In 7th grade, my math teacher just put on movies and slept off his hangovers on his couch in the classroom.
Yea, I think it definitely varies person to person. I definitely had more teachers that cared than didn't, but the ones that didn't care REALLY didn't care. I've had the movie one before lol
 
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It’s interesting to read a thread where teachers post about how hard they work and how difficult/demanding their job is. Especially when you realize that they’re posting on a message board during the school day. Me thinks someone may be embellishing.

I guess every non teacher who posts on this sub is unemployed since only teachers have loos enough schedules to post during their work day. Eyeroll
 
It’s interesting to read a thread where teachers post about how hard they work and how difficult/demanding their job is. Especially when you realize that they’re posting on a message board during the school day. Me thinks someone may be embellishing.
Getting paid to post on rivals is a great work perk!
 
I didn't realize @TheDude1 was a teacher... and left an executive level job to be a teacher... all that stuff he said about young girls in the off-season just got waaaaay more creepy.

tenor.gif
I don't believe his "executive level job" stuff one bit. Not a chance. But I do agree that he's creepy.
 
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It's a tough one because you can't pay teachers necessarily by grades or test scores. If it were the private sector and we were talking bottom line, you could do that. But reality in place like Louisville or most US cities is that the poor schools have kids with much bigger challenges. I'm talking immigrant kids, drug babies, kids from chaotic homes, kids with hereditary learning disabilities, kids who don't even eat at home... the stories I hear from my friends (and parents) teaching in public schools are unbelievable and nothing I just listed is slightly unusual at many urban (and rural) schools. So then how do you pay per performance if it's extremely difficult to even conclude expectations given all conditions involved?

This post should be getting more attention than it is, it is probably the most important question there is in regards to education. You're basically asking about the difference between proficiency and progress. A better teacher can have worse raw results if you go by test scores if they are at a disadvanted school.
 
Why not focus on the example I provided, rather than rushing to focus on lib'ruls?

Why should I focus on that example you provided? Are there other examples as well? Is this type of thing becoming more common?

I focus on what I believe is a growing concern in schools. And this is not because they're "libs". I don't have issues with "libs". I have some liberal beliefs myself and welcome conversation, regardless of how tough it may be, with "libs".

I have issue with indoctrination of youths of any set of beliefs regardless of what side they may align. Just so happens to be the left perpetuating indoctrination more commonly in academia.
 
I guess every non teacher who posts on this sub is unemployed since only teachers have loos enough schedules to post during their work day. Eyeroll

I can’t speak for others on here. I post all the time during my work day. But I also don’t write multi-chapter novels about how difficult my job is or how under appreciated / under paid I am. I get paid based on how much profit I generate for my company so I can say I make exactly what I’m worth.
 
I can’t speak for others on here. I post all the time during my work day. But I also don’t write multi-chapter novels about how difficult my job is or how under appreciated / under paid I am. I get paid based on how much profit I generate for my company so I can say I make exactly what I’m worth.

It varies by day for me. Some days I can't post at all because I don't have a break, even for lunch (technically illegal but I have to do what the principal says). Some days I have no classes between 9:00 and 10:10, and a lunch break at noon. If it's the second kind of day and I'm done with planning/sending emails, I have time to post.

Ultimately, teaching is the only profession where I've seen people say we have no right to advocate for a better salary or working conditions. We make set rates determined by our school district based on years taught and if we are a bachelor, master, or doctor by degree level. Our only method of bargaining is by striking most of the time.
 
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It varies by day for me. Some days I can't post at all because I don't have a break, even for lunch (technically illegal but I have to do what the principal says). Some days I have no classes between 9:00 and 10:10, and a lunch break at noon. If it's the second kind of day and I'm done with planning/sending emails, I have time to post.

Ultimately, teaching is the only profession where I've seen people say we have no right to advocate for a better salary or working conditions. We make set rates determined by our school district based on years taught and if we are a bachelor, master, or doctor by degree level. Our only method of bargaining is by striking most of the time.

I have no problem with people wanting to make more money. This is America, if you don’t want to make more money then you’re living in the wrong country. But, the link in the OP is about teachers who are making 45k/year in a state where the pcpi is 36k/year and the average household income is 44k/year.

West Virginia is one of the poorest states in the country. The largest percentage of their GDP already comes from government employment. So what are West Virginian teachers doing to deserve more money? Nothing.

They have one of the worst public education systems in the country. And considering where the US education system as a whole ranks internationally, it means that West Virginia has one of the worst educational systems in the developed world. But, rather than waiting until the summer to renegotiate their contracts, instead they decided to walk off their jobs and leave the kids with no educational system at all. And all in an effort to hold the state hostage and force them to agree to raises that the state already can’t afford. That I do have a problem with.
 
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