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OT: West Virginia teacher's strike

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Da_Bull

Da_Bull

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Jun 29, 2011
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https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/health/west-virginia-teachers-salaries-trnd/index.html

Have we discussed? Considering WV is ranked 44th in test scores its not surprising their 48th in salary avg. And lets just end the myth that teachers are underpaid. Especially now a days with technology the grading is down, only work 180ish days vs 260ish days for a normal person, its quite easy for a person of low intelligence to get a teaching degree. You don't like your pay get a different job.
 
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Ive only read the cliff notes, but good for them trying to make the man stick by their word.
 
Da_Bull said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/health/west-virginia-teachers-salaries-trnd/index.html

Have we discussed? Considering WV is ranked 44th in test scores its not surprising their 48th in salary avg. And lets just end the myth that teachers are underpaid. Especially now a days with technology the grading is down, only work 180ish days vs 260ish days for a normal person, its quite easy for a person of low intelligence to get a teaching degree. You don't like your pay get a different job.
Click to expand...

i disagree on that
had you said very average intelligence, then i would have agreed

teachers today miss the point of what being a teacher is
not only do they have to have intelligence but they also need to be a good salesperson
they have to be able to sale the kids on acquiring the knowledge of others
basically no matter how smart a teacher is if they can not communicate with children then they need to find another job
 
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mebeblue2 said:
i disagree on that
had you said very average intelligence, then i would have agreed

teachers today miss the point of what being a teacher is
not only do they have to have intelligence but they also need to be a good salesperson
they have to be able to sale the kids on acquiring the knowledge of others
basically no matter how smart a teacher is if they can not communicate with children then they need to find another job
Click to expand...
Man I know a lot of dumb people that went to school for 5-7 years just to get a teaching degree. One now has a master's degree (another 10 years) and is a principal. There are a lot of dumb people with bachelor's degrees that aren't in teaching as well though.
 
tw3301 said:
Man I know a lot of dumb people that went to school for 5-7 years just to get a teaching degree. One now has a master's degree (another 10 years) and is a principal. There are a lot of dumb people with bachelor's degrees that aren't in teaching as well though.
Click to expand...
i also know a principle like that
 
The WV numbers are a lot higher than what they pay here in Easter Ky.

My only issue with teachers complaining about their pay is they sign up knowing the pay is going to be crap. It's not like this is anything new or something they shouldn't know.
 
I am stupid said:
The WV numbers are a lot higher than what they pay here in Easter Ky.

My only issue with teachers complaining about their pay is they sign up knowing the pay is going to be crap. It's not like this is anything new or something they shouldn't know.
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In states w/ collective bargaining power, they also know that those things are constantly renegotiated.

Here in NC, teachers went into it knowing there was tenure, too. That's gone. They knew the salary schedule meant a modest raise each year. That's gone. They knew they could earn a higher salary with a Master's degree. That's gone. Now they're talking about arming teachers. No one signed up for any of that.

No one goes into teaching thinking they're going to get rich -- or prioritizing wealth, for that matter. There's a limit to that, though.
 
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I'm not a believer in teachers striking. There are other ways to try and get fair pay or whatever. They may not work but not teaching the kids should never be an option IMO. That is why one should get into the profession.

I will say the OP is wrong about workload though. The workload now is considerably more than it was when I started (19 years ago). It goes up more and more each year. This idea that teachers work just their contracted days isn't really accurate either. In the summer there are multiple days, and sometimes weeks, that we have requirements that you don't get paid for. Regardless, I don't really listen to teachers whine here where I am because you know what the deal is. That doesn't mean you can't push to get better pay but I generally don't care for a bunch of complaining anyway. I did it because I wanted a job in my hometown and enjoy working with kids. I knew I could get a job here. Up until recently I also worked every summer for extra money. Don't really have to anymore though. The money isn't great but the benefits are really good so it isn't like it is a minimum wage job or anything.

The most concerning aspect of education is what one has to deal with these days. There is a lot that wasn't present years ago that is now in terms of safety and how kids act towards teachers. Society has kind of deteriorated in a lot of ways in terms of respect. That has little to do with this though.
 
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bkingUK said:
Let me be Nostradamus:

Dattier's Take: teachers are right
coryfly's take: teachers are somewhat right
SNU's take: teachers are wrong
My take: everyone is a moron
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Pretty much this.

I suppose you could add KYCore in that line-up as well, posting a sexy teacher with a low cut blouse showing her knockers.
 
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Da_Bull said:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/health/west-virginia-teachers-salaries-trnd/index.html

Have we discussed? Considering WV is ranked 44th in test scores its not surprising their 48th in salary avg. And lets just end the myth that teachers are underpaid. Especially now a days with technology the grading is down, only work 180ish days vs 260ish days for a normal person, its quite easy for a person of low intelligence to get a teaching degree. You don't like your pay get a different job.
Click to expand...

This might be the most idiotic post I've ever seen on rivals... congrats on your accomplishment!
 
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I'm not willing to wear a blouse but I'll post a sexy picture if you guys want. YOLO
 
As someone with the rare experience of having been both in an executive role in a high pressure, high visibility field, as well as in public education, I am in a somewhat unique spot in terms of meaningful, real experience-based evaluating of the teaching profession in comparison to the private sector.

There is certainly a lot that we can ask of the teaching profession, in terms of improvement. But overall the job is one with nearly impossible expectations, often undertaken for rather less money than one would see in a job of equivalent importance in the private sector (what is of equivalent importance being debatable, but unless you are a fool you see some real merit in education as a profession) and one that is of a level of exhaustion-causing that is impossible to truly understand unless you’ve spent all day, every day, for decades or even years or even months or even a few days as the sole adult trying to lead 25 some odd children to do something meaningful and difficult and required of them, not to mention being a mentor, role model, parent, protector, judge, and friend, for life.

Not all teachers are great. But a great teacher means a great lot.
 
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Okay... there are bad teachers, just like there are bad anything. Glad they caught her. Real POS... personal opinions about stuff like politics has little to no place in a middle school classroom, especially hateful stuff.
 
It’s absolutely alarming who went to school to be a teacher in my age group. Some of the dumbest girls I know - and I mean dumb.

For some reason my age group took “those who can’t do, teach” very, very literally.
 
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WojoRising said:
It’s absolutely alarming who went to school to be a teacher in my age group. Some of the dumbest girls I know - and I mean dumb.

For some reason my age group took “those who can’t do, teach” very, very literally.
Click to expand...

There are also at least two Duke grads and a UNC grad on this very forum who are teachers. Single-experience anecdotes don't necessarily mean much, you know?

You get smart people and dumb people in all sorts of professions. I know dumb people who went into marketing, who are plumbers, who are doctors, who become cops, who went into the military, who own small businesses selling fasteners and staples, etc etc. Heck, sometimes dumb people can do a job very, very well!
 
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WojoRising said:
It’s absolutely alarming who went to school to be a teacher in my age group. Some of the dumbest girls I know - and I mean dumb.

For some reason my age group took “those who can’t do, teach” very, very literally.
Click to expand...

Its quite alarming. These people pursue a career with the sole intention of having summers off so they can drink and be lazy, makes perfect sense why so many are caught banging students. They know what the pay will be yet they continue to complain about it and young people continue to gravitate towards a teaching degree. Mind bottling.
 
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TheDude1 said:
There are also at least two Duke grads and a UNC grad on this very forum who are teachers. Single-experience anecdotes don't necessarily mean much, you know?

You get smart people and dumb people in all sorts of professions. I know dumb people who went into marketing, who are plumbers, who are doctors, who become cops, who went into the military, who own small businesses selling fasteners and staples, etc etc. Heck, sometimes dumb people can do a job very, very well!
Click to expand...
This is why I was careful to specify “in my age group”.

And absolutely dumb people can do a job well. However, when they can’t use the appropriate there/their/they’re or too/to/two, don’t know how many continents there are and don’t know what “embellishments” mean, well, that job isn’t teaching.
 
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TheDude1 said:
There are also at least two Duke grads and a UNC grad on this very forum who are teachers. Single-experience anecdotes don't necessarily mean much, you know?

You get smart people and dumb people in all sorts of professions. I know dumb people who went into marketing, who are plumbers, who are doctors, who become cops, who went into the military, who own small businesses selling fasteners and staples, etc etc. Heck, sometimes dumb people can do a job very, very well!
Click to expand...
I have never met a doctor who was dumb.
 
TheDude1 said:
As someone with the rare experience of having been both in an executive role in a high pressure, high visibility field, as well as in public education, I am in a somewhat unique spot in terms of meaningful, real experience-based evaluating of the teaching profession in comparison to the private sector.

There is certainly a lot that we can ask of the teaching profession, in terms of improvement. But overall the job is one with nearly impossible expectations, often undertaken for rather less money than one would see in a job of equivalent importance in the private sector (what is of equivalent importance being debatable, but unless you are a fool you see some real merit in education as a profession) and one that is of a level of exhaustion-causing that is impossible to truly understand unless you’ve spent all day, every day, for decades or even years or even months or even a few days as the sole adult trying to lead 25 some odd children to do something meaningful and difficult and required of them, not to mention being a mentor, role model, parent, protector, judge, and friend, for life.

Not all teachers are great. But a great teacher means a great lot.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying there aren't teachers who deserve more, but i can't see people choosing to teach, knowing before hand what the pay is and then complain about it. Now maybe the system needs looked into as the current model isn't ideal, privatize schools more IMO, but with the current model teachers don't have a leg to stand on.
 
Da_Bull said:
Its quite alarming. These people pursue a career with the sole intention of having summers off so they can drink and be lazy, makes perfect sense why so many are caught banging students. They know what the pay will be yet they continue to complain about it and young people continue to gravitate towards a teaching degree. Mind bottling.
Click to expand...

Nobody... ABSOLUTELY NOBODY... goes into teaching because they get the summers off. Or, if they do, they drop out within a year or two. There is NO "OMG I am looking forward to vacation" that makes the other ten months tolerable.

And yes, people CAN get into a profession and then want to improve it. Saying otherwise is just moronic. Not sure how anyone on the planet could possibly take the stance of "Well, you got into this job, so no complaining about it ever!" In fact, those who care about it have a RESPONSIBILITY to "complain" because we know how important it is and we see that it is dying out.

Thank god young people continue to get into education. Without teachers, human cultures do not function above the level of the Taliban-held areas of f'ing Afghanistan.

Da_Bull said:
I'm not saying there aren't teachers who deserve more, but i can't see people choosing to teach, knowing before hand what the pay is and then complain about it. Now maybe the system needs looked into as the current model isn't ideal, privatize schools more IMO, but with the current model teachers don't have a leg to stand on.
Click to expand...

Again, stupid. Find me a PROFESSION ON EARTH where you get hired and then can never complain. ONE PROFESSION ON EARTH. There isn't one. Stop having ridiculous, completely unrealistic standards for teachers that you don't have for anyone else.

And no, privatizing schools is a TERRIBLE idea. TERRIBLE. While there are obvious shortcomings of a not-for-profit model, the idea that we might tie money to education is ridiculous. We already face massive issues dealing with funding in a system where the benefits are so far-reaching and difficult to evaluate and in which half of the people who pay for it do not directly benefit from it, but holy shit, the disaster we'd face when you have people whose primary goal is maximizing profits running the school? Christ, it would be a mess. And yeah, good luck properly evaluating 8 year olds who still believe in Santa and tying that to pay in a meaningful way.

There are certain pieces of our society, of American culture, which should be governed by something other than the search for money; while the search for money does create certain benefits of competition, it also tends to leave a lot of people behind, and you simply cannot do that in education of children.

Amazing how people can be so uninformed and also lack such foresight. I suppose if you are not involved with something you can have random thoughts, but you don't really spend time thinking about issues more in-depth.

Hey Bull, out of curiousity... what do you do for a living? How old are you? Where did you get your schooling?
 
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Da_Bull said:
I'm not saying there aren't teachers who deserve more, but i can't see people choosing to teach, knowing before hand what the pay is and then complain about it. Now maybe the system needs looked into as the current model isn't ideal, privatize schools more IMO, but with the current model teachers don't have a leg to stand on.
Click to expand...

There are definitely things that need to be looked into but I think the privatization route is a terrible approach. Most private schools around here pay way less and have teachers that aren't as good as public schools. The difference is parents have to pay a lot to go so the kids are different. If we go heavy on a voucher approach or privatization then private schools basically just become public schools with a different name. It isn't the teachers that make a difference in private schools. It is who attends.
 
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TheDude1 said:
Nobody... ABSOLUTELY NOBODY... goes into teaching because they get the summers off. Or, if they do, they drop out within a year or two. There is NO "OMG I am looking forward to vacation" that makes the other ten months tolerable.

And yes, people CAN get into a profession and then want to improve it. Saying otherwise is just moronic. Not sure how anyone on the planet could possibly take the stance of "Well, you got into this job, so no complaining about it ever!" In fact, those who care about it have a RESPONSIBILITY to "complain" because we know how important it is and we see that it is dying out.

Thank god young people continue to get into education. Without teachers, human cultures do not function above the level of the Taliban-held areas of f'ing Afghanistan.



Again, stupid. Find me a PROFESSION ON EARTH where you get hired and then can never complain. ONE PROFESSION ON EARTH. There isn't one. Stop having ridiculous, completely unrealistic standards for teachers that you don't have for anyone else.

And no, privatizing schools is a TERRIBLE idea. TERRIBLE. While there are obvious shortcomings of a not-for-profit model, the idea that we might tie money to education is ridiculous. We already face massive issues dealing with funding in a system where the benefits are so far-reaching and difficult to evaluate and in which half of the people who pay for it do not directly benefit from it, but holy shit, the disaster we'd face when you have people whose primary goal is maximizing profits running the school? Christ, it would be a mess. And yeah, good luck properly evaluating 8 year olds who still believe in Santa and tying that to pay in a meaningful way.

Amazing how people can be so uninformed and also lack such foresight. I suppose if you are not involved with something you can have random thoughts, but you don't really spend time thinking about issues more in-depth.

Hey Bull, out of curiousity... what do you do for a living? How old are you? Where did you get your schooling?
Click to expand...

You're wasting your time, that moron has already made up his mind.
 
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evsprt03 said:
That's unfortunate. Also unfortunate that academia has had a growing population of activist teachers that spew extreme left ideology to their students instead of teaching kids to read and think.
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Uh... a hippy dippy college professor is not the same thing as a literal Neo Nazi middle school teacher who bragged about indoctrinating students and fooling administration. You can just post "Wow, that's f'ed UP" without trying to "score points" or whatever.
 
TheDude1 said:
Uh... a hippy dippy college professor is not the same thing as a literal Neo Nazi middle school teacher who bragged about indoctrinating students and fooling administration. You can just post "Wow, that's f'ed UP" without trying to "score points" or whatever.
Click to expand...

I think one could argue 1 neo Nazi teacher isn't as significant as an overwhelmingly majority of academia spewing far left ideology. I also think 1 could argue far left ideology spewed by a growing population in academia will cause more far right ideology to arise as well. Both being awful and detrimental to youths of course
 
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evsprt03 said:
I think one could argue 1 neo Nazi teacher isn't as significant as an overwhelmingly majority of academia spewing far left ideology. I also think 1 could argue far left ideology spewed by a growing population in academia will cause more far right ideology to arise as well. Both being awful and detrimental to youths of course
Click to expand...

Sure. I suppose it is all pretty far off-topic anyway, so let's let it go.
 
TheDude1 said:
Nobody... ABSOLUTELY NOBODY... goes into teaching because they get the summers off. Or, if they do, they drop out within a year or two. There is NO "OMG I am looking forward to vacation" that makes the other ten months tolerable.

And yes, people CAN get into a profession and then want to improve it. Saying otherwise is just moronic. Not sure how anyone on the planet could possibly take the stance of "Well, you got into this job, so no complaining about it ever!" In fact, those who care about it have a RESPONSIBILITY to "complain" because we know how important it is and we see that it is dying out.

Thank god young people continue to get into education. Without teachers, human cultures do not function above the level of the Taliban-held areas of f'ing Afghanistan.



Again, stupid. Find me a PROFESSION ON EARTH where you get hired and then can never complain. ONE PROFESSION ON EARTH. There isn't one. Stop having ridiculous, completely unrealistic standards for teachers that you don't have for anyone else.

And no, privatizing schools is a TERRIBLE idea. TERRIBLE. While there are obvious shortcomings of a not-for-profit model, the idea that we might tie money to education is ridiculous. We already face massive issues dealing with funding in a system where the benefits are so far-reaching and difficult to evaluate and in which half of the people who pay for it do not directly benefit from it, but holy shit, the disaster we'd face when you have people whose primary goal is maximizing profits running the school? Christ, it would be a mess. And yeah, good luck properly evaluating 8 year olds who still believe in Santa and tying that to pay in a meaningful way.

There are certain pieces of our society, of American culture, which should be governed by something other than the search for money; while the search for money does create certain benefits of competition, it also tends to leave a lot of people behind, and you simply cannot do that in education of children.

Amazing how people can be so uninformed and also lack such foresight. I suppose if you are not involved with something you can have random thoughts, but you don't really spend time thinking about issues more in-depth.

Hey Bull, out of curiousity... what do you do for a living? How old are you? Where did you get your schooling?
Click to expand...

I'm just saying if you expect to only work 9 months out of the year and expect to be paid anything over 50-60k you should look into a mirror. Most teachers i respected in school had a side hustle they did during the summer.

P.S. I'm a small business owner, 32 years old, public school attendee with a few years of college drinking under my belt.
 
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Bert Higginbotha said:
Some of the most influential people in my life were teachers.
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This is kind of where I'm at. Granted, there are some really bad and lazy teachers out there, but there are also some amazing people who truly do care about the well being and future of their students. Its tough to say whether teachers deserve a pay raise, because you have some that do and you have some that shouldn't even be in the profession.
 
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Da_Bull said:
I'm just saying if you expect to only work 9 months out of the year and expect to be paid anything over 50-60k you should look into a mirror. Most teachers i respected in school had a side hustle they did during the summer.

P.S. I'm a small business owner, 32 years old, public school attendee with a few years of college drinking under my belt.
Click to expand...

Interesting info. What does your business do? Not looking to attack or anything, actually just curious.

Its ten months, btw. For me work starts Sept 2 or so and ends June 28th.

And your stance is ridiculous. So if someone has an essential, exhausting, and demanding job upon which our culture depends and gets paid a pro-rated salary of (50,000 for ten months, which is 5,000 a month, so...) 60,000 a year for a full work year, they can't complain? That's asinine.

And yes, most teachers have a summer job. You don't get paid during the summer, and you don't make enough to go two months without income.

JimboBBN said:
This is kind of where I'm at. Granted, there are some really bad and lazy teachers out there, but there are also some amazing people who truly do care about the well being and future of their students. Its tough to say whether teachers deserve a pay raise, because you have some that do and you have some that shouldn't even be in the profession.
Click to expand...

My guess is the ratio of lazy and bad to deserving of a raise is much better in teaching than in most jobs in our nation. Simply put, its nearly impossible to be a lazy teacher. Of COURSE there are some (gym teachers, I'm looking at you!) but its a REALLY hard job to be lazy in.

Nobody gets into teaching for vacations or the pay, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't take care of our teachers and their families. Take care of your teachers and they will repay it ten times over, directly to the most important people in our lives.
 
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