It absolutely ‘is what it is’ (how could ‘it’ be anything else?). There’s just no evidence it is what you think it is.
OT: Okay Christians, help me out...
- Thread starter TheDude1
- Start date
And yet they are statistically the most generous people in the US . Or at least they donate the most to charity. But okay.
If religion were reasonable it wouldn't require belief in magic with out reason.
I don't get it, why do atheists bash christianity/religion any chance they get? Does it make them feel better about themselves or something?
Just seems odd people will fight so hard against something that doesn't hurt them in any way.
Either way, I'd rather be discussing KY teachers right now anyway.
Just seems odd people will fight so hard against something that doesn't hurt them in any way.
Either way, I'd rather be discussing KY teachers right now anyway.
I disagree that religion doesn't hurt me in any way. I also find your characterization of "atheism" to be rampant with generalizations and is merely an attempt to trivialize what I'm saying.
From putting commandments in courtrooms to the espionage of education to countless wars, religion has been a roadblock to progress for society and individuals. I don't expect to change anyone's mind.
I was raised in the same Catholic communities as @JimboBBN and I get his perspective. He's more diplomatic than me. On one hand, you have great communities of Catholics made up of friends and families who have strong ties. I'd bet @JimboBBN knows countless people totally content with their lives in those communities. On the other hand, the church is corrupt and the entire idea of Christ is a bit ridiculous. Some people feel guilty admitting this. I'm over the guilt.
Put this on top of observing the insanity of the Christian Right in the south and Midwest. It's hard, almost impossible, to share these people's beliefs.
On top of all this, science and reason highly suggest none of it is real.
And you ask me why I speak my mind... I'd lack integrity if I didn't.
Why do the superstitious bash non-believers any chance they get?
If one group can tell the other group they are ‘wrong’, why can’t the other group do the same?
Yea, I definitely agree with a lot of your points. A couple things..
You sound like you are completely atheist, and I am not. I lean more towards that side at this point in my life, but I cannot say god doesn't exist and mean that 100 percent. There are definitely points I could argue for Christianity if I was debating someone who was an atheist, but it is easier for me to come up with points for the other side.
I also agree that organized religions has caused a ton of progression problems in our society. Even more so in some foreign countries. Hell, women were just now allowed to drive over in the Middle East. That is beyond insane. And as you mentioned, religion is the main reason for almost every major war this planet has experienced. I will say, I do believe that religion can be a very positive influence in people's lives, as long as they aren't extreme about it. If people want to believe in a god and follow his rules because that makes them a better person and it makes them feel more secure, I'm all about it.
Louisville is a huge Catholic city, and most of the people in my life follow the church. They are all wonderful people who I am extremely thankful are in my life, wouldn't change a thing about them.
I mean, this is a thread directed towards Christians. I don't see any Christians bashing non believers(unless I missed something). Unless you count Bert. He's just an old man that yells at every one.
Borden told me I wasn't getting into heaven, but I'm not the one that shit on a cat SmokinSmile
Im sure there are evangelical message boards if you're into that.
Raised a Protestant, but baptized a Catholic within the last ten years. The Catholic would give you a summary at every Mass with the recitation of the Nicene Creed and right smack dab in the middle is "for our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures." I'm as open minded as anyone here or elsewhere; but I believe that account of the crucifixion and Resurrection of Jesus Christ just as if I witnessed the birth of my own children.
I will say for those that haven't undergone the same conversion they I underwent, the Catholic Church has an Old Testament scripture reading as well as a New Testament recitation prior to the Homily with every Mass. As often as not it is prophetic of the arrival of Jesus Christ. Even the most conservative Catholic will tell you there is much in the Old Testament that is more symbolic than anything (Jonah and the whale being one such example)...but it also saturated with prophecy.
I will say for those that haven't undergone the same conversion they I underwent, the Catholic Church has an Old Testament scripture reading as well as a New Testament recitation prior to the Homily with every Mass. As often as not it is prophetic of the arrival of Jesus Christ. Even the most conservative Catholic will tell you there is much in the Old Testament that is more symbolic than anything (Jonah and the whale being one such example)...but it also saturated with prophecy.
It’s religious interpretation which has a big impact on societal progression, too.
For example you have heavily, heavily catholic states like New York which are very progressive with things that one could blame religion on stunting (Separation of Church and State, Abortion, Gay Marriage, etc).
Then you have states which aren’t as liberal on stances like that which are just as religious.
Obviously you have countries that have been set back centuries because of religion, but for where we are it’s more a product of your surroundings. I’m not trying to make this into a left/right /north/south thing, but you can’t always pin a lack of progression on religion.
For example you have heavily, heavily catholic states like New York which are very progressive with things that one could blame religion on stunting (Separation of Church and State, Abortion, Gay Marriage, etc).
Then you have states which aren’t as liberal on stances like that which are just as religious.
Obviously you have countries that have been set back centuries because of religion, but for where we are it’s more a product of your surroundings. I’m not trying to make this into a left/right /north/south thing, but you can’t always pin a lack of progression on religion.
Would you agree or disagree the vast majority of wars, even the ones of the past century, are due to religion?
I’m going to be completely honest and say that I don’t know. I’m not nearly as well versed as I should be in that shit.
I know the Yugoslav wars were, but that’s the extent of it. I’m more or less a Nationalist when discussing issues like this, as in I’m really only referencing the USA, and whenever the US has gotten in religion fueled wars within the last century I have to assume it’s on the side of personal liberty.
Fair enough. I'm a war and history nerd, so I was just curious.
Is that the case for the US? Have we engaged in religion-fueled wars in recent history? If so, what stance have we taken? That of a specific religion ruling a country, or providing relief to those being oppressed because of their non-majority beliefs?
Seriously asking
Those whom crucified Christ were religious. Vast difference between a religious person and Christian. A "true" Christian would never murder .
I would definitely say the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were at the very least PARTIALLY religion fueled. A large part was certainly due to nuclear weapon crisis, trying to keep the most dangerous weapons out of the hands of even more dangerous people. But I would say 9/11 was religiously fueled, which of course caused more war in the Middle East. That part of the world mixes church and state in the worst way, so in this instance, we were much more for relieving those being oppressed. I can't tell you how long the US has been trying to help some of those countries, whether it be right or wrong of us, form some sort of stable democracy. It seems like throughout time, and especially recently, a whole lot of bad people have been able to get power and control. It was our idea to put a government in place so that was less likely to happen. A government that would benefit those that are being oppressed, as you mentioned.
My two favorite wars, WWI and WWII, were both started because of religion. It is a tad different now, as far as the US is concerned, than is was during these wars. Although they both started to do religious differences, the US entered both wars so late, that the main objective was to stop the bad guy, other than try and stabilize a region, if that makes sense. We are always involved in one way or the other lol
/nerd rant
It's certainly a war of religion according to jihadists. And it's likely a war that wouldn't occur if the US was Muslim. And to some Americans, it unfortunately is a holy war. In the religion I just created, those Americans will burn in hell while listening to Elton John and Tupac on a never ending loop. And if you disagree with me, you will be there too.
Actually a lot of true Christians murder people. Christianity teaches to love the sinner and hate the sin. Also, as a Christian, you have no authority to judge other humans. Pretty sure that's in The Bible.
You can judge sin , just not the intent of the heart behind the sin. The bible also says someone isn't a Christian because they say they are.
There are only 2 ways to identify a Christian according to the bible.
1. If they love other people
2. If they show "fruit of the spirit" (note: someone can commit sin and have fruit of the spirit, everyone has a flesh and a spirit)
Pure love in the bible is defined in 1rst Corinthians 13
"
4 Love is patient, love is kind, love does not envy, it does not boast and is not proud.It is not rude or self seeking, is not easily angered, it keeps no record of being wronged. Love does not rejoice in evil but rejoices in truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails
Lists of "fruit of the spirit" aka natural result of what is inside.
joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.
So name 1 example of a practicing Christian "christian meaning like Christ, or practiced the pattern of Christs life" whom practices these examples of love and fruit whom also practices murder?
So according to this definition you don't have to believe in Christ to be Christian
It's great everyone knows where everyone stands.
It makes you a believer by definition not a Christian by definition.
Paul was a believer in God and a religious follower. He persecuted and killed Christians. Then became a Christian repented and killed no more and ended up writing 2/3rds of the new testament. This is a perfect example of the difference.
So, in your view, if Christian and then kills then one isn't Christian. At which point they can become born again. But if they became born again already and then kill... do they become born again again?
Obviously, bking, the murderer was never ‘saved’ to begin with. He was only faking it.
Christians can ‘sin’, but apparently murder is different.
I wasn’t able to tag you in any actual NCAAT threads and didn’t want you to feel left out
I have as much in common with Easter as my team does with the NCAA tournament