OAD Era has Proven to be Very Successful

[bignish]

@bignish , don't you feel dirty for linking UK and Duke to try and make this OAD thing a major success for Duke? I find it rather disgusting.

I have a hard time starting the OAD era for Duke prior to 2013/14 with Jabari Parker being a known OADer. But either way. Let's have a real look at trends. There isn't much of a difference in tournament success during our OAD era.

In the past five years Duke has a 1st round exit, a national title, a sweet sixteen, a 2nd round exit and an elite eight.

The previous five years Duke had a sweet sixteen, a national title, a sweet sixteen, a 1st round exit and an elite eight.

So not much to say that the OAD formula has been successful compared to Duke's previous recruiting methods.

But if you look at records, there is evidence that it is hurting Duke. Over the past twenty years, Duke has lost more than 7 games five times and four have come in the past five years.

Over the past five years Duke has finished 3, 1, 3, 3 and 4 games out of 1st place in the ACC.

The previous five years Duke finished 2, 0, 1, 1 and 1 game(s) out of 1st place in the ACC.

Not sure how we can call the OAD era a success. Sorry.

I'm not counting teams with just 1 OAD since those teams are basically upperclassmen-laden anyway.

I'm specifically talking about teams that have 2 or more OAD players.

What I'm getting at is at least recruiting multiple top 10 players gives you a chance to reload every season regardless of the roster turnover from a year prior and prevents you from being stuck with upperclassmen who have seemingly hit a will aka they are who they are at that point.

For every Jalen Brunson out there, there's like 5 Tyler Thornton or Matt Jones types. You can't just rely on players getting older since they don't neccessarily improve and sometimes they regress.

Would you be excited for an all senior starting lineup of Greg Paulus, Tyler Thornton, Matt Jones, Josh Hairston and Chase Jeter? You know you're basically screwed at that point.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I'm not counting teams with just 1 OAD since those teams are basically upperclassmen-laden anyway.

I'm specifically talking about teams that have 2 or more OAD players.

What I'm getting at is at least recruiting multiple top 10 players gives you a chance to reload every season regardless of the roster turnover from a year prior and prevents you from being stuck with upperclassmen who have seemingly hit a will aka they are who they are at that point.

For every Jalen Brunson out there, there's like 5 Tyler Thornton or Matt Jones types. You can't just rely on players getting older since they don't neccessarily improve and sometimes they regress.

Would you be excited for an all senior starting lineup of Greg Paulus, Tyler Thornton, Matt Jones, Josh Hairston and Chase Jeter? You know you're basically screwed at that point.

I am not anti OAD. I am just being a realistic fan who hasn't seen anything that suggests that this is a successful formula.

Your example there sucks. Of the players you listed, give me Matt Jones over Trent and give me Thornton over Duvall and I like this year's team to cut down the nets.

 

[Quavarius]

I’ve never understood why it is so important for you guys to try and convince people of this.

It bares repeating

 

[Dattier]

Those are nice words and all, but UK and Duke are doing the exact same thing.

Doing the "exact same thing" and the attitude/philosophy behind it are legitimately different considerations.

I respect Cal. I haven't always.
I don't have a problem w/ the recruitment of OADs. I'm not as certain that that represents any change of heart.
I don't care for his style.

 

[829305]

I am not anti OAD. I am just being a realistic fan who hasn't seen anything that suggests that this is a successful formula.

 

[WojoRising]

I am not anti OAD. I am just being a realistic fan who hasn't seen anything that suggests that this is a successful formula.

Your example there sucks. Of the players you listed, give me Matt Jones over Trent and give me Thornton over Duvall and I like this year's team to cut down the nets.

I don't know about that. Definitely not the Jones/Trent swap, but I get what you're saying.

From a personal level of how attached I am to the team is where I really despise OAD.

 

[coryfly]

I’ve never understood why it is so important for you guys to try and convince people of this.

It bares repeating

It is only partly true but not even important. There isn’t any need to justify what you guys do.

 

[Dattier]

It is only partly true but not even important. There isn’t any need to justify what you guys do.

It's completely true, and not an attempt to justify anything.

 

[Quavarius]

It's completely true, and not an attempt to justify anything.

Right! Not sure why he's getting bent out of shape about it.

 

[coryfly]

It is only partly true but not even important. There isn’t any need to justify what you guys do.

It's completely true, and not an attempt to justify anything.

It isn’t. I can’t believe you guys find it so hard to understand but more than anything don’t see why.

 

[coryfly]

It's completely true, and not an attempt to justify anything.

Right! Not sure why he's getting bent out of shape about it.

Lol, I’m not getting bent out of shape because I disagree. You guys have some weird ways of justifying things.

 

[Dattier]

Lol, I’m not getting bent out of shape because I disagree. You guys have some weird ways of justifying things.

We're not justifying anything.

 

[coryfly]

Lol, I’m not getting bent out of shape because I disagree. You guys have some weird ways of justifying things.

We're not justifying anything.

Not sure what other purpose there would be to try so hard to frame something as ok (with things that aren’t entirely true) when the entire point being made isn’t even necessary.

 

[Dattier]

Not sure what other purpose there would be to try so hard to frame something as ok (with things that aren’t entirely true) when the entire point being made isn’t even necessary.

Not trying very hard. No need when the frame fits so neatly with the truth. Shows us how unnecessary a point it is by ignoring it.

 

[Quavarius]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/03/09/roy-williams-says-wishes-dukes-players/

 

[coryfly]

Not sure what other purpose there would be to try so hard to frame something as ok (with things that aren’t entirely true) when the entire point being made isn’t even necessary.

Not trying very hard. No need when the frame fits so neatly with the truth. Shows us how unnecessary a point it is by ignoring it.

If I wanted to ignore it then I would have. We often, almost always, comment on unnecessary things here.

 

[Global Havok]

The OAD system is working out fine for Duke and UK this decade. I can see why people wouldn't want their team to use it, but both the teams who are using it have won titles and been in contention for the title several other years.

I'm glad no one else is trying it to the level of Duke and UK, there are barely enough 5 stars to sustain us as it is.

 

[coryfly]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/03/09/roy-williams-says-wishes-dukes-players/

Roy says he goes after the same guys. Says he wants them and has missed. He also has said he doesn’t want a full class of them. Thus being partly true. It just isn’t that complicated.

 

[coryfly]

The OAD system is working out fine for Duke and UK this decade. I can see why people wouldn't want their team to use it, but both the teams who are using it have won titles and been in contention for the title several other years.

I'm glad no one else is trying it to the level of Duke and UK, there are barely enough 5 stars to sustain us as it is.

I think some are trying. I just think those two have had the most success.

 

[Dattier]

If I wanted to ignore it then I would have. We often, almost always, comment on unnecessary things here.

Then there is no reason for you to point out that something is unnecessary and attach suspicion to its existence.

 

[coryfly]

Then there is no reason for you to point out that something is unnecessary and attach suspicion to its existence.

Sure there is. Because I was curious as to what the reason is for the justification. There has to be some reason.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

http://www.zagsblog.com/2018/03/09/roy-williams-says-wishes-dukes-players/

Did Roy Williams really refer to himself in the third person?

"and I think I’ve got one of the talented guys beside me [Theo Pinson] that has meant a great deal to our program, and in a corny, corny way but in a truthful way, he’s really meant a lot to Roy Williams, and I really like that.”

That's so Roy.

 

[coryfly]

Did Roy Williams really refer to himself in the third person?

"and I think I’ve got one of the talented guys beside me [Theo Pinson] that has meant a great deal to our program, and in a corny, corny way but in a truthful way, he’s really meant a lot to Roy Williams, and I really like that.”

That's so Roy.

Roy is savage. He does what he wants.

 

[AWilli6995]

Roy says he goes after the same guys. Says he wants them and has missed. He also has said he doesn’t want a full class of them. Thus being partly true. It just isn’t that complicated.

I don't see what the big deal is, we missed on a lot of the OAD talent. This thread has turned stupid in a hurry.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Roy is savage. He does what he wants.

Except land all the OAD's he wants. Winking

 

[coryfly]

I don't see what the big deal is, we missed on a lot of the OAD talent. This thread has turned stupid in a hurry.

We missed on a whole lot. I don't get the deal either, which was my entire point.

 

[Quavarius]

Did Roy Williams really refer to himself in the third person?

"and I think I’ve got one of the talented guys beside me [Theo Pinson] that has meant a great deal to our program, and in a corny, corny way but in a truthful way, he’s really meant a lot to Roy Williams, and I really like that.”

That's so Roy.

I seriously wonder if Roy talks to himself and has to remind himself just who he is.

 

[coryfly]

Except land all the OAD's he wants. Winking

Hey, he finally landed one at least.

 

[AWilli6995]

Except land all the OAD's he wants. Winking

But we've done ok, you should know that. SmokinSmile

 

[lurkeraspect84]

But we've done ok, you should know that. SmokinSmile

Yeah, 6 titles is pretty good.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Hey, he finally landed one at least.

The way Coby White was jacking up shots in the Jordan Brand game (20 attempts), I wouldn't be surprised if you have two this year.

 

[coryfly]

The way Coby White was jacking up shots in the Jordan Brand game (20 attempts), I wouldn't be surprised if you have two this year.

It could happen but I have a feeling White struggles a lot more than Little next year.

 

[AWilli6995]

The way Coby White was jacking up shots in the Jordan Brand game (20 attempts), I wouldn't be surprised if you have two this year.

I love his game. The ACC is going to be brutal again.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I love his game. The ACC is going to be brutal again.

Do you think the ACC will have a #1 seed advance past the first round next year?

 

[coryfly]

Do you think the ACC will have a #1 seed advance past the first round next year?

Maybe, if Roy is coaching that #1 seed. If not there are no guarantees.

 

[AWilli6995]

Do you think the ACC will have a #1 seed advance past the first round next year?

If it's Duke I hope not.

 

[ExitFlagger]

When half the talent in the country is distributed between two schools, of course you're going to get a solid final four total.

Have those schools been a huge success relative to expectation? Nope. They've had Woodenesque talent.

The real question is how would the same schools have fared with more veterans sprinkled in or rosters made up of recruits in the 15-50 range rather than grabbing as many OADs as possible?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

When half the talent in the country is distributed between two schools, of course you're going to get a solid final four total.

Half the talent in the country?

Have those schools been a huge success relative to expectation? Nope. They've had Woodenesque talent.

Didn't Wooden have players for 4 years?

The real question is how would the same schools have fared with more veterans sprinkled in or rosters made up of recruits in the 15-50 range rather than grabbing as many OADs as possible?

Like KU?

 

[jhmossy]

Do you think the ACC will have a #1 seed advance past the first round next year?

 

[RondoBaller21]

Despite what the haters may be telling you, the multiple OAD model has been very successful in the NCAA tournament. 9 Duke and UK teams fit this category and the results have been excellent!

2010 Kentucky: Elite 8 (Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe)
2012 Kentucky: National Champions (MKG and Davis)
2014 Kentucky: Final 4 (Randle and Young)
2015 Duke: National Champions (Jones, Winslow and Okafor)
2015 Kentucky: Final 4 (Lyles, KAT and Booker)
2016 Kentucky: 2nd Round (Murray and Labissiere)
2017 Kentucky: Elite 8 (Fox, Monk and Adebayo)
2017 Duke: 2nd Round (Giles, Jackson and Tatum)
2018 Duke: Elite 8 (Duval, Bagley, Trent and Carter)
2018 Kentucky: Sweet 16 (SGA and Knox)

So in a sample size of 10, we have 2 titles, 2 more Final 4s, 3 Elite 8s, 1 Sweet 16 and 2 2nd Round exits.

What other program that boasts "experienced players" in the last 10 years has had equal success in the NCAAT?

I can't believe some fans of these schools would rather see mediocre upperclassmen play like Josh Hairston, Tyler Thornton, Greg Paulus, Isaiah Briscoe, Marcus Lee and Dom Hawkins than freshmen studs who are more talented from Day 1.

Is there a reason you left the 2011 UK team off your list? That was another final four team your leaving out.