OAD Era has Proven to be Very Successful

[bignish]

Despite what the haters may be telling you, the multiple OAD model has been very successful in the NCAA tournament. 9 Duke and UK teams fit this category and the results have been excellent!

2010 Kentucky: Elite 8 (Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe)
2012 Kentucky: National Champions (MKG and Davis)
2014 Kentucky: Final 4 (Randle and Young)
2015 Duke: National Champions (Jones, Winslow and Okafor)
2015 Kentucky: Final 4 (Lyles, KAT and Booker)
2016 Kentucky: 2nd Round (Murray and Labissiere)
2017 Kentucky: Elite 8 (Fox, Monk and Adebayo)
2017 Duke: 2nd Round (Giles, Jackson and Tatum)
2018 Duke: Elite 8 (Duval, Bagley, Trent and Carter)
2018 Kentucky: Sweet 16 (SGA and Knox)

So in a sample size of 10, we have 2 titles, 2 more Final 4s, 3 Elite 8s, 1 Sweet 16 and 2 2nd Round exits.

What other program that boasts "experienced players" in the last 10 years has had equal success in the NCAAT?

I can't believe some fans of these schools would rather see mediocre upperclassmen play like Josh Hairston, Tyler Thornton, Greg Paulus, Isaiah Briscoe, Marcus Lee and Dom Hawkins than freshmen studs who are more talented from Day 1.

 

[npreston]

I don’t mind the OAD model. I’d prefer two-and-done, or let them go directly from High School. However, I’m a believer that players should get paid as well, so, maybe I’m in the minority?

 

[coryfly]

Can we combine Villanova and UNC then?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I keep forgetting the 10-11 UK FF team only had one OAD. Kanter doesn't count and Lamb and Jones returned.

Crazy that team lost 9 players from the year before and still made it to the Final Four.

 

[dukedevilz]

Can we combine Villanova and UNC then?

Since Cal joined Kentucky in the 2009-10 season, Duke/Kentucky have been much more consistent than UNC/Villanova.

Duke/Kentucky:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 17
Tournament Wins- 51
Sweet 16- 13
Elite 8- 10
Final Fours- 6
NCAA Titles- 3

UNC/Villanova:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 16
Tournament Wins- 36
Sweet 16- 7
Elite 8- 6
Final Fours- 4
Titles- 3

The only thing that is even is titles. Duke/Kentucky have more of everything else.

 

[coryfly]

Can we combine Villanova and UNC then?

Since Cal joined Kentucky in the 2009-10 season, Duke/Kentucky have been much more consistent than UNC/Villanova.

Duke/Kentucky:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 17
Tournament Wins- 51
Sweet 16- 13
Elite 8- 10
Final Fours- 6
NCAA Titles- 3

UNC/Villanova:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 16
Tournament Wins- 36
Sweet 16- 7
Elite 8- 6
Final Fours- 4
Titles- 3

The only thing that is even is titles. Duke/Kentucky have more of everything else.

It’s comparable though considering there is one more title, which is the ultimate goal. I’m not hating on OADs though. I enjoy watching them.

 

[Montana81]

Can we combine Villanova and UNC then?

You're not just combining nova and UNC. You're combining he rest of college basketball.

It’s comparable though considering there is one more title, which is the ultimate goal. I’m not hating on OADs though. I enjoy watching them.

Yeah but you're picking arguably the best two of 350 plus. Versus just 2/2.

Have any other programs truly attempted to build teams around mostly freshman year after year?

I feel like there's probably been a few here and there. Ohio State 2007 started 3 freshman I think. Oden, Conley and Cook.

Zonas had a few really talented classes come in they've rarely had multiple freshman leave early.

Duke and UK have just been okay these last 3 years though. 2 2nd rounds. 2 s16's 2E8's. Lots of losses.

 

[coryfly]

Can we combine Villanova and UNC then?

You're not just combining nova and UNC. You're combining he rest of college basketball.

It’s comparable though considering there is one more title, which is the ultimate goal. I’m not hating on OADs though. I enjoy watching them.

Yeah but you're picking arguably the best two of 350 plus. Versus just 2/2.

Have any other programs truly attempted to build teams around mostly freshman year after year?

I feel like there's probably been a few here and there. Ohio State 2007 started 3 freshman I think. Oden, Conley and Cook.

Zonas had a few really talented classes come in they've rarely had multiple freshman leave early.

Duke and UK have just been okay these last 3 years though. 2 2nd rounds. 2 s16's 2E8's. Lots of losses.

The best two non OAD vs the best two OAD. I’m not even sure when OAD started either tbh.

 

[Spacegrass]

Can we combine Villanova and UNC then?

Nova has had a couple of trash years since 2010. 2010-2013 they were average to bad.

 

[RR30]

 

[Quavarius]

Since Cal joined Kentucky in the 2009-10 season, Duke/Kentucky have been much more consistent than UNC/Villanova.

Duke/Kentucky:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 17
Tournament Wins- 51
Sweet 16- 13
Elite 8- 10
Final Fours- 6
NCAA Titles- 3

UNC/Villanova:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 16
Tournament Wins- 36
Sweet 16- 7
Elite 8- 6
Final Fours- 4
Titles- 3

The only thing that is even is titles. Duke/Kentucky have more of everything else.

Yeah I would certainly take the Duke/Kentucky model over UNC/Nova. UNC/Nova have certainly dominated the last half of this decade but the beginning was dominated by Duke and Kentucky. Duke and Kentucky will be more of a threat to reach the Final Four and/or win the ship next season over UNC/Nova (depending on who all leaves).

Thanks for this breakdown!

 

[Quavarius]

UNC/Nova had one less NCAA Tournament appearance as well.

 

[829305]

Since Cal joined Kentucky in the 2009-10 season, Duke/Kentucky have been much more consistent than UNC/Villanova.

Duke/Kentucky:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 17
Tournament Wins- 51
Sweet 16- 13
Elite 8- 10
Final Fours- 6
NCAA Titles- 3

UNC/Villanova:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 16
Tournament Wins- 36
Sweet 16- 7
Elite 8- 6
Final Fours- 4
Titles- 3

The only thing that is even is titles. Duke/Kentucky have more of everything else.

Would you categorize your butt-hurt as strong or very strong? OP, how about yours?

 

[bignish]

Can we combine Villanova and UNC then?

Nope since we’re looking at the success of teams with multiple OADs in totality vs any other high profile program where players stay longer.

If you combine Nova and UNC’s last 5 years, you get 3 titles, one other Final 4, 1 Sweet 16 and the remaining 5 teams either had 1st or 2nd round exits. Pretty good but still not as consistently good as the Duke-UK combo.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

All I see is one championship for Duke which had senior and junior leaders and tgis past season's elite eight. As a Duke fan, I wouldn't call that a success. I would call it at or below what is expected.

 

[uncfan in ky]

I agree, the O&D era has been marvelous. Roy has the same amount of championships has he’s had O&D players.

 

[Hank_]

I think OAD has oddly helped create parity in CBB, since there are really only a handful of teams doing it.

I think if you open up the transfer rules like they are proposing, that will help even more.

 

[AWilli6995]

Anybody can pick a time frame to make their argument look good. What do you view as a successful season in terms of the OAD? Personally I'm going with final 4's because you made it out of the second weekend. All that talent and not making the final 4, that's a disappointment. UK has made it twice after their title and Duke none after theirs despite having the top recruiting class the last 3 years. The teams that won the titles in the OP's time frame has had experienced talent outside of 2012 and 2015 teams.

 

[coryfly]

Can we combine Villanova and UNC then?

Nope since we’re looking at the success of teams with multiple OADs in totality vs any other high profile program where players stay longer.

If you combine Nova and UNC’s last 5 years, you get 3 titles, one other Final 4, 1 Sweet 16 and the remaining 5 teams either had 1st or 2nd round exits. Pretty good but still not as consistently good as the Duke-UK combo.

You can’t compare two to any other one. That’s absurd, which you realized as you just compared 2 to 2.

 

[Dattier]

Meh. I think there's compelling evidence that it's unwise to ignore OAD talent, but there are a huge majority of FF teams who have not been dependent on OAD players. From the other thread on a similar topic, I just posted a breakdown showing that 7 of the 48 FF teams since the OAD era began (predating Cal at UK by 3 years) depended heavily on OAD talent.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Meh. I think there's compelling evidence that it's unwise to ignore OAD talent, but there are a huge majority of FF teams who have not been dependent on OAD players. From the other thread on a similar topic, I just posted a breakdown showing that 7 of the 48 FF teams since the OAD era began (predating Cal at UK by 3 years) depended heavily on OAD talent.

Are you counting Calipari at UM Final Four, because that would give Calipari 5 of the 7.

 

[Quavarius]

Every coach would love to coach OAD talent if they could land them. No coach would refuse OAD talent that wants to come to their school! Some coaches have certainly won without it, but you're silly if you don't think your coach doesn't want OAD talent and everything that comes with it!

 

[jhmossy]

I love how Duke fans like the OP used to bash Kentucky for the OAD model and now they're defending its legitimacy.

 

[uncfan in ky]

Are you counting Calipari at UM Final Four, because that would give Calipari 5 of the 7.

Cal didn’t go to a FF at Memphis.

 

[dukedevilz]

Would you categorize your butt-hurt as strong or very strong? OP, how about yours?

I'm extremely butt-hurt about 2 National Titles and 4 Regional Finals this decade. Thanks for noticing.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Cal didn’t go to a FF at Memphis.

Then it's just 4 of the 7.

 

[nitewing]

the OAD only helps 2 teams out of 350 so your point of it being any kind of success and helping D1 BB is totally false.

to me let them go to the NBA straight out of HS vs paying them, as far as changing the transfer rule. NOT IN THIS LIFETIME. let the Grad Transfer go the others make them sit a year and maybe add a loss of one year.

this is not a gratification option let alone a me 1st option selfish full filling option either.

staying with the school that gave the player the chance to play should come 1st

 

[Big_C_KU]

I like the OAD. Gonna be sad when it goes because able to see players at the college level that would never see before. Especially considering we were trending towards 10+ straight to the NBA every season before it was out in place.

That said I never wanna see KU relying on 3 or more freshmen in their starting lineup again. Self isn't made for that and he coaches better with a roater of experiences players.

 

[jakeallen32]

Since Cal joined Kentucky in the 2009-10 season, Duke/Kentucky have been much more consistent than UNC/Villanova.

Duke/Kentucky:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 17
Tournament Wins- 51
Sweet 16- 13
Elite 8- 10
Final Fours- 6
NCAA Titles- 3

UNC/Villanova:
Total Seasons- 18
Tournament App.- 16
Tournament Wins- 36
Sweet 16- 7
Elite 8- 6
Final Fours- 4
Titles- 3

The only thing that is even is titles. Duke/Kentucky have more of everything else.

OAD model started 18 years ago? Duke started the process 6-7 years ago. UK when Cal arrived.

 

[dukedevilz]

OAD model started 18 years ago? Duke started the process 6-7 years ago. UK when Cal arrived.

You saw where I combined Kentucky and Duke, right? 18/2= 9 ... I began my semi-arbitrary timeframe in the 2009-10 season when Cal took over for Kentucky. Duke had Kyrie the next season.

 

[Quavarius]

OAD model started 18 years ago? Duke started the process 6-7 years ago. UK when Cal arrived.

Might want to re-read it again, sport

 

[Dattier]

Are you counting Calipari at UM Final Four, because that would give Calipari 5 of the 7.

Yes.

 

[Dattier]

I love how Duke fans like the OP used to bash Kentucky for the OAD model and now they're defending its legitimacy.

There's a difference between (1) claiming an NBA Draft night is the best day in the history of UK basketball and saying your job is to get guys to the NBA,
and
(2) “We’re looking for kids who can really play and are good academically and are going to be good kids. That profile for the guys in our program hasn’t changed since the early ’80s. But how long you have them and what you try to do during the year, especially if they’ve committed to you, to establish even a stronger relationship before they get here and then work at it while they’re here because you’re condensing a four-year relationship into about a 10-month relationship once you get the youngster on campus.”

 

[bignish]

I love how Duke fans like the OP used to bash Kentucky for the OAD model and now they're defending its legitimacy.

I changed my mind and now I'm all aboard!!

Looking forward to Draft Day 2018.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Yeah I would certainly take the Duke/Kentucky model over UNC/Nova. UNC/Nova have certainly dominated the last half of this decade but the beginning was dominated by Duke and Kentucky. Duke and Kentucky will be more of a threat to reach the Final Four and/or win the ship next season over UNC/Nova (depending on who all leaves).

Thanks for this breakdown!

.................... and the Duke and Kentucky kids went to school...............

 

[Quavarius]

.................... and the Duke and Kentucky kids went to school...............

Bert with the burn

 

[JimboBBN]

Bert with the burn

You'll have to explain what that means to him, he's never burned anyone before

 

[JimboBBN]

There's a difference between (1) claiming an NBA Draft night is the best day in the history of UK basketball and saying your job is to get guys to the NBA,
and
(2) “We’re looking for kids who can really play and are good academically and are going to be good kids. That profile for the guys in our program hasn’t changed since the early ’80s. But how long you have them and what you try to do during the year, especially if they’ve committed to you, to establish even a stronger relationship before they get here and then work at it while they’re here because you’re condensing a four-year relationship into about a 10-month relationship once you get the youngster on campus.”

Those are nice words and all, but UK and Duke are doing the exact same thing.

 

[coryfly]

Every coach would love to coach OAD talent if they could land them. No coach would refuse OAD talent that wants to come to their school! Some coaches have certainly won without it, but you're silly if you don't think your coach doesn't want OAD talent and everything that comes with it!

I’ve never understood why it is so important for you guys to try and convince people of this.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

@bignish , don't you feel dirty for linking UK and Duke to try and make this OAD thing a major success for Duke? I find it rather disgusting.

I have a hard time starting the OAD era for Duke prior to 2013/14 with Jabari Parker being a known OADer. But either way. Let's have a real look at trends. There isn't much of a difference in tournament success during our OAD era.

In the past five years Duke has a 1st round exit, a national title, a sweet sixteen, a 2nd round exit and an elite eight.

The previous five years Duke had a sweet sixteen, a national title, a sweet sixteen, a 1st round exit and an elite eight.

So not much to say that the OAD formula has been successful compared to Duke's previous recruiting methods.

But if you look at records, there is evidence that it is hurting Duke. Over the past twenty years, Duke has lost more than 7 games five times and four have come in the past five years.

Over the past five years Duke has finished 3, 1, 3, 3 and 4 games out of 1st place in the ACC.

The previous five years Duke finished 2, 0, 1, 1 and 1 game(s) out of 1st place in the ACC.

Not sure how we can call the OAD era a success. Sorry.