NBA Draft Talk

[Silvermane]

Tell me what Oubre has shown that would make you take him before you select Devin Booker. That's one draft forecast I just don't get.

B

The certainty with which people discuss draft prospects in any league is hilarious to me. There is no way you can look through NBA rosters on playoff teams and project where they'll be in their fourth or fifth season in the league based on their collegiate stats. Between Booker and Oubre it definitely isn't clear who has the higher ceiling. If Oubre develops it's probably him but his shot may not come along. But you can't tell based on a stat sheet. Who projected Westbrook as one of the top ten or fifteen NBA players based on his freshman year at UCLA?

 

[Silvermane]

Watching the NBA combine now. I love how the NBA develops players. Guys come out of college and disappear for years then emerge at 25, 26, or 27 with totally new skills. Or how former NBA stars add skills to stick as role players into their 30s.

 

[denniden]

Who projected Westbrook as one of the top ten or fifteen NBA players based on his freshman year at UCLA?

I am not sure of the answer to that exactly, but Westbrook was the 4th pick in his draft. Clearly OKC thought very highly of him and other teams would have grabbed him as well around that pick. Does being the 4th pick translate to that type of level? Not always, but the NBA draft has a lot to do with potential. Which a guy like Westbrook clearly had. His athletic ability was off the charts good coming out of UCLA.

 

[Silvermane]

I am not sure of the answer to that exactly, but Westbrook was the 4th pick in his draft. Clearly OKC thought very highly of him and other teams would have grabbed him as well around that pick. Does being the 4th pick translate to that type of level? Not always, but the NBA draft has a lot to do with potential. Which a guy like Westbrook clearly had. His athletic ability was off the charts good coming out of UCLA.

Definitely, and that athletic ability was what set him apart. It's not a perfect comparison because Westbrook left UCLA after his sophomore season but the fact remains that you can't chart a players' NBA career based on their freshman season in college and that's all you have with Oubre or Booker

 

[RR30]

Tell me what Oubre has shown that would make you take him before you select Devin Booker. That's one draft forecast I just don't get.

B

Better athlete, more length (can guard the 2/3). He's not the shooter Booker is but is solid in his own right. I'd take a chance on Oubre before Booker if I needed a wing.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

This argument makes no sense as okafor faced double and triple teams all season long

There were 6 players on Duke's roster who were better outside shooters than Cuse's 2nd best shooter. Floor spacing is everything to a scoring big man. Okafor had room to operate, Christmas did not. When Okafor was doubled, the defense would pay for it. Not the case with Christmas on that limited Cuse roster.

 

[Spacegrass]

Pat Connaughton just recorded a 44" max vertical

 

[endicott]

Wow. I would have never thought he would measure that short. Hell the Harrison twins are bigger and would have never believed that. We all might eat some crow on the twins at the next level

Justise will be fine. He will be a good NBA player. He just fits the mold with his skill set

Harrisons both measured 6'4.5" as well, I believe.

 

[calionreppa]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25185608/five-things- Mickey nearly finished with a triple-double, scoring 17 points, grabbing eight rebounds and swatting eight shots. He was his extremely active self on both ends, and knocked down some midrange jumpers that will be key to his ability to carve out a role in the NBA. Still, it'll be the defense that he hangs his hat on, and he certainly brought that today.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/article...ys-from-measurements-workouts-and-more/page/4

www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar/misc-051415-nba-draft-combine-day-1-takeaways

• Talk about stuffing the stat sheet. LSU’s Jordan Mickey was unreal during Game 2.
  
  The undersized big man didn’t look very undersized on Thursday as he swatted away eight shots in just 29 minutes of action. Yeah - eight shots in just 29 minutes of action!. It’s hard not to notice that type of defense.
  
  Mickey also made a difference in the scoring column, where he tied for the team high with 17 points on 7-of-12 shooting. His eight rebounds led the team as well.
  
  Mickey had a great season for the Tigers and he continued to roll at the Combine. He was the best all-around player on the day.
  

 

[Silvermane]

I like Jordan's long term potential but he is going to be buried on the bench for two or three seasons while he gets bigger. If he can develop his shot during that time he could potentially become a starter. Last year 14 of the 1st round picks played in the D League at some point. I see Mickey spending most of his first season at least logging minutes there.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

I just realized who Terry Rozier reminds me of on the basketball court.

Eric Bledsoe. Almost identical players in stature, style, and ability. Both played the SG spot in college, and defense was their bread and butter. I'd love to see Rozier's career take off like Bledsoe's at the next level. If teams see Rozier as a trustworthy PG, I could see him going mid-20's. But if they think he's an undersized SG, I could see him slipping to the mid 2nd round. Seems to be a polarizing prospect.

 

[wcc31]

I just realized who Terry Rozier reminds me of on the basketball court.

Eric Bledsoe. Almost identical players in stature, style, and ability. Both played the SG spot in college, and defense was their bread and butter. I'd love to see Rozier's career take off like Bledsoe's at the next level. If teams see Rozier as a trustworthy PG, I could see him going mid-20's. But if they think he's an undersized PG, I could see him slipping to the mid 2nd round. Seems to be a polarizing prospect.

Not a bad comparison, but Bledsoe is just an athletic freak, a marvel. Even in the NBA, he's a next level athlete. Rozier is plenty athletic himself, but Bledsoe is on a plane with the likes of Westbrook and company in that regard.

 

[brooky03]

I know the 5-on-5 game didn't include the top recruits, but Christmas dominated. Here's a nice little article on it: http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...sketball_nba_combine_5_on_5.html#incart_river

In 29 minutes, he dropped 20 points on 7-10 shooting, hit a few jumpers from 15+ ft., grabbed 6 boards, and all accounts have said his defense and pick and roll/screening game were fantastic. Factoring in his better than expected measurables (6'9.75" height, and 7'5.25" wingspan), I'm really excited for him. Rak has the potential to be a strong backup PF who can slide to C when it's needed. The zone might have hidden some weaknesses on defense, but I think once his agility numbers come out, everybody will realize he has more than enough foot speed and awareness to guard 4's in the NBA. The zone also cut into his rebounding numbers. In a m2m scheme his rpg would probably have been at least 1.5 boards higher, so he might surprise on this front, too.

His age might hurt his draft stock, but I agree with J-Rye that Rak will be a steal in this draft. I hope he lands in a good spot and avoids injury.

 

[Jhmoss1812]

Justin Anderson killing it at the combine

 

[Mark Gastineau]

Pat Connaughton just recorded a 44" max vertical

Absolutely insane. I wonder if he's going to choose basketball over baseball?

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Not a bad comparison, but Bledsoe is just an athletic freak, a marvel. Even in the NBA, he's a next level athlete. Rozier is plenty athletic himself, but Bledsoe is on a plane with the likes of Westbrook and company in that regard.

just sayin'

 

[denniden]

There were 6 players on Duke's roster who were better outside shooters than Cuse's 2nd best shooter. Floor spacing is everything to a scoring big man. Okafor had room to operate, Christmas did not. When Okafor was doubled, the defense would pay for it. Not the case with Christmas on that limited Cuse roster.

Okafor had some room to operate against very few teams. ND is the only non zone playing team that did not double him most of the time and he averaged close to 30 against them. Individual stats go down when you have to pass out of traps. Teams made it a point to take the ball out of Okafors hands and make others beat them.

 

[brooky03]

Okafor had some room to operate against very few teams. ND is the only non zone playing team that did not double him most of the time and he averaged close to 30 against them. Individual stats go down when you have to pass out of traps. Teams made it a point to take the ball out of Okafors hands and make others beat them.

The same was true for Christmas. In his case, though, he had practically no offensive threats to kick it to. His FG% is evidence that he had to force the issue multiple times a game.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Okafor had some room to operate against very few teams. ND is the only non zone playing team that did not double him most of the time and he averaged close to 30 against them. Individual stats go down when you have to pass out of traps. Teams made it a point to take the ball out of Okafors hands and make others beat them.

Okafor was a very good passer too. Did a great job of recognizing where the help was coming from.

 

[denniden]

Okafor was a very good passer too. Did a great job of recognizing where the help was coming from.

At times he did. He struggled with TO's out of double teams though for a big part of the year.

 

[yiana]

Watching the NBA combine now. I love how the NBA develops players. Guys come out of college and disappear for years then emerge at 25, 26, or 27 with totally new skills. Or how former NBA stars add skills to stick as role players into their 30s.

Agreed. PJ Tucker comes to mind. It's cool watching stars age gracefully as you said. That IQ never leaves.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Agreed. PJ Tucker comes to mind. It's cool watching stars age gracefully as you said. That IQ never leaves.

The best is when guys like Wes Matthews, Danny Green, and Isaiah Thomas come out of nowhere and light it up. Always cool to see the underdog win.

 

[Spacegrass]

Absolutely insane. I wonder if he's going to choose basketball over baseball?

All the athletic testing he was tops for the SG position. 6'5.25" , 6'8.5" wingspan , 37.5" standing vertical. Plus he can shoot and has a body ready for the NBA. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the 20-30 range at end of the first round. He has been vocal about wanting to be a basketball player first.

 

[brooky03]

All the athletic testing he was tops for the SG position. 6'5.25" , 6'8.5" wingspan , 37.5" standing vertical. Plus he can shoot and has a body ready for the NBA. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go in the 20-30 range at end of the first round. He has been vocal about wanting to be a basketball player first.

I think he'd be smart to go with basketball first. A) The money is considerably better at the start of a career. B) The schedule isn't nearly as brutal. C) If he craps out after a few years, baseball is still a viable option. Baseball is much less concerned with age than basketball and 25 or 26 year old rookies are commonplace.

 

[RR30]

I think he'd be smart to go with basketball first. A) The money is considerably better at the start of a career. B) The schedule isn't nearly as brutal. C) If he craps out after a few years, baseball is still a viable option. Baseball is much less concerned with age than basketball and 25 or 26 year old rookies are commonplace.

That is because of the minor leagues. It will be super tough for him to leave baseball completely for a few years (if he does this) then go back to it if he busts in the NBA and make a career in the majors.

 

[Spacegrass]

Agreed. PJ Tucker comes to mind. It's cool watching stars age gracefully as you said. That IQ never leaves.

Played against PJ Tucker in HS. He was a pain in the ass. He could guard anyone on the court and was always the toughest SOB on the court. Those attributes are what has allowed him stick in the league until his offensive game caught up. Guy was a man in HS already physically.

 

[brooky03]

That is because of the minor leagues. It will be super tough for him to leave baseball completely for a few years (if he does this) then go back to it if he busts in the NBA and make a career in the majors.

Not saying it'd be easy, but it's easier than basketball.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Mickey, Christmas, Rozier, Connaughton, and Andrew Harrison sound like the biggest winners from the 5-on-5 games.

 

[Devilicious]

Justise measured in at 6'4.5" w/o shoes today, which changes everything, Pretty ludicrous to put him at the 4 in the NBA to begin with, now it's just not feasible(it would seem).

Why? Do they play barefoot now in the NBA? The kid will be a Top 5 pick.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Why? Do they play barefoot now in the NBA? The kid will be a Top 5 pick.

Because not all soles are the same height and NBA forwards are usually 6'6 without shoes. I love Winslow's game regardless of height. An improved handle and he could even play the 2 spot.

 

[endicott]

Why? Do they play barefoot now in the NBA? The kid will be a Top 5 pick.

OK, who said anything implying he wouldn't be?

That old "Do they play barefoot?" line is the most worn out line ever. It's a non variable, that's why people use it. Would it be better if I said 6'6" in shoes is too small for an NBA 4?

 

[RR30]

OK, who said anything implying he wouldn't be?

That old "Do they play barefoot?" line is the most worn out line ever. It's a non variable, that's why people use it. Would it be better if I said 6'6" in shoes is too small for an NBA 4?

He could play there at times I guess, but could you imagine him guarding AD? Dirk? Aldridge? It would end up very badly for Justice. He's a 2/3 in the NBA. Then again Chuck Hayes has been in the league for 10 years now and he is a 6'6 center...

 

[endicott]

Yeah, I'm in no way saying Justise is, should, or should ever try playing the 4 in the NBA, I just thought with the way Draymond Green has been all the rage this postseason that Justise's measurements were an interesting comparison, but they turned out to be a little inflated.

 

[Devilicious]

OK, who said anything implying he wouldn't be?

That old "Do they play barefoot?" line is the most worn out line ever. It's a non variable, that's why people use it. Would it be better if I said 6'6" in shoes is too small for an NBA 4?

Worn out line? I'm not sure I've heard it often enough to be worn out. Sorry to disagree with you but my comment was based more on the "changes everything" portion of your statement. I don't think it changes anything. I think he is a SF in the NBA and was only being considered as a PF due to the success of Green and Barnes being played there. He's 6'6 at the most (with shoes) so playing him at the 4 is a reach IMO.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Draymond Green was matched up with Dwight Howard last night and got the best of him. I'm impressed. Houston was lost when the Warriors went small at the end of the first half.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

A little off topic but I find it a little funny when posters ask a question, "Could you imagined undersized ____ guarding" one of the top players @ position ___. Not to pick on RR, I get it, it's a legit question. Could you imagine Winslow trying to guard AD, or Aldridge... my counter point is, nobody can guard them, regardless of the size of the defender. I mean ok AD would probably give Aldridge trouble and there are a couple other tough matchups for great players. My point is, nobody, in general, can guard the great players. So with that said, one strategy is to make them cover a tough player too. Could you guys imagine Aldridge trying to guar Winslow once he matures? If Winslow's game develops a guy like Aldridge wouldn't be able to stay with him on the perimeter. Yeah that can be argued, but my main point remains, nobody can guard guys like AD or Aldridge anyway.

 

[endicott]

Worn out line? I'm not sure I've heard it often enough to be worn out. Sorry to disagree with you but my comment was based more on the "changes everything" portion of your statement. I don't think it changes anything. I think he is a SF in the NBA and was only being considered as a PF due to the success of Green and Barnes being played there. He's 6'6 at the most (with shoes) so playing him at the 4 is a reach IMO.

I'm just confused, I guess. I didn't think I even said anything that was possible to disagree with. I noted the similarities between Justise and Draymond's measurements. When Justise's turned out to be, well, wrong, it changed everything because the measurements were no longer comparable.

The only stance w/ an opinion backing I took is when I explicitly said, about a dozen times, that I thought Justise should in no way play the 4 in the NBA.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Who you got?

I feel like Olivier Hanlan is going to be pretty good, and we'll look back and it'll seem obvious that it was going to happen. Classic combo who is great in the P&R should translate well to the NBA. Star? No. But, with the potential to get him in the 40's or 50's, I see him being a great value, considering I see him as a less athletic Brandon Knight.

Whatever happened to Hanlan, and the OP?

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Really love the value of Stanley Johnson in the mid lottery. Both he and Justise have such valuable worst case scenarios. Also...

6'6 --- 6'5.75"; Height w/o Shoes
229 --- 236; Weight
6'10 --- 7'1; Wingspan
8'8 --- 8'9; Standing Reach

Justise Winslow;Draymond Green

Just found that interesting.

Forgot all about Stanley Johnson. Massive bust, and I ain't talking bout titties!

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

RJ Hunter is a nice sleeper first round pick. Figures to be taken late so he'll get into a winning team type of situation and will more than likely have a good mentor. Good size, coach's son, has a lot of tools.

2nd rd sleeper Tyler Harvey Eastern Washington, guy can score it.

RJ Hunter bagged my groceries the other day. Good guy. Tyler Harvey. Who?