N.....NPOY

Mgkcbb

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God, you’re the worst. You can ruin a thread in no time. However, I think you intend to, which is just pathetic.

Well dont worry, all the regular students ruined threads too so its not technically against the rules.
 

toonces11

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Well dont worry, all the regular students ruined threads too so its not technically against the rules.
Young is def playing himself out of NPOY. Terrible decision making and even worse shot selection. He hasn’t learned to do the little things when shots aren’t falling....like play defense and playing within an offense.
 

Mgkcbb

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Young is def playing himself out of NPOY. Terrible decision making and even worse shot selection. He hasn’t learned to do the little things when shots aren’t falling....like play defense and playing within an offense.

If you arent going to give it to the guy who leads the nation in assists and points, who exactly are you advocating giving it to then?
 

boilerzz

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If you arent going to give it to the guy who leads the nation in assists and points, who exactly are you advocating giving it to then?
What is more impressive?

267 assists against 157 turnovers or

216 assists against 80 turnovers



An O-rating of 120.1 or 112.7

It's funny how you purport to be an advanced metrics guy but with this discussion, you keep coming back to raw numbers.
 
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bignish

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Trae Young will be a NBA starter next year while Devonte Graham will be auditioning to be the ball boy in LaVar Ball’s Lithuanian basketball league.
 

Mgkcbb

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Trae Young will be a NBA starter next year while Devonte Graham will be auditioning to be the ball boy in LaVar Ball’s Lithuanian basketball league.

Based on the logic used ITT, we can pretty much conclude this:

Graham isnt even the best player in his own state. Landry Shamet is a better player because hes lead a worse Wichita State team to as many wins as Graham has, which is apparently all that matters.
 

RockChalkRally

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Trae Young is playing for the Oklahoma Sooners. He's not playing for KU, MSU or UK so this hypothetical crap of playing the 'if" game is not helping to advocate for Young winning NPOY. Young chose the school that best fit his style of play. Would Young have made KU better if he had went there instead? Yes without a doubt. Would he have been allowed to play hero ball and and be a high volume shooter for Self? No absolutely not. Lon Kruger gave young the keys to do anything and everything he wanted to do on the court at any given time. It's been crystal clear since mid January that every team who play played against OU has adjusted to playing against Trae Young. On the other hand, Young has not adjusted near as well. OU as a team is living off of what they accomplished from November thru mid-January. Most of the team has fallen off the map leaving Young to shoulder most to the weight.

It's unfortunate Young is forced to carry OU on his back now but all that additional weight isn't helping him either. As far as the Big 12 POY goes, its between Young, Evans and Graham. Either one of those three are deserving. As far as NPOY is concerned, it's Jalen Brunson. Brunson is a junior and the opposition has made several adjustments to slow him down. Brunson has done some adjusting of his own and now in his 3rd season, he's still killing it on the floor.
 

ExitFlagger

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Based on the logic used ITT, we can pretty much conclude this:

Graham isnt even the best player in his own state. Landry Shamet is a better player because hes lead a worse Wichita State team to as many wins as Graham has, which is apparently all that matters.

Wichita has as many quality wins as KU? They must be on the 1 line too then, right?
 

JimboBBN

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I really don't get how Trae Young is still getting the love. He's a very talented kid, but he's been figured out. November and December were a long time ago, he is nowhere near the player he was when teams didn't know who he was. I would take Graham over Young and not think twice about it. I guess that makes me jealous of Graham now?
 

Mgkcbb

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It doesnt make you jealous Jimbo, just makes you an idiot or at the very least wrong.
 

Mgkcbb

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Jumbo I was ****ing with you, you know youre my boy Blue, but you are laughably wrong here.

Lets break it down

Per 40 minutes
Trae Young 31.3 points
Devonte Graham 18.9 points

Trae Young 10.1 assists
Devonte Graham 7.7 assists

Trae Young 1.9 steals
Devonte Graham 1.7 steals

Trae Young 4.4 rebounds
Devonte Graham 4.4 rebounds

Devonte Graham 58.3 True Shooting
Trae Young 58.8 True shooting

Trae Young 28.6 PER
Devonte Graham 22.3 PER
 
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boilerzz

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Jumbo I was ****ing with you, you know youre my boy Blue, but you are laughably wrong here.

Lets break it down

Per 40 minutes
Trae Young 31.3 points
Devonte Graham 18.9 points

Trae Young 10.1 assists
Devonte Graham 7.7 assists

Trae Young 1.9 steals
Devonte Graham 1.7 steals

Trae Young 4.4 rebounds
Devonte Graham 4.4 rebounds

Devonte Graham 58.3 True Shooting
Trae Young 58.8 True shooting

Trae Young 28.6 PER
Devonte Graham 22.3 PER
I see you left ATO off that list. Also, who the hell uses Per 40 as a measurement?
 

IZAC

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Jumbo I was ****ing with you, you know youre my boy Blue, but you are laughably wrong here.

Lets break it down

Per 40 minutes
Trae Young 31.3 points
Devonte Graham 18.9 points

Trae Young 10.1 assists
Devonte Graham 7.7 assists

Trae Young 1.9 steals
Devonte Graham 1.7 steals

Trae Young 4.4 rebounds
Devonte Graham 4.4 rebounds

Devonte Graham 58.3 True Shooting
Trae Young 58.8 True shooting

Trae Young 28.6 PER
Devonte Graham 22.3 PER

I see you left out Devonte's four Big 12 titles.
 
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Mgkcbb

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I see you left out Devonte's four Big 12 titles.

Yeah, hard for Trae Young to match that considering hes a full 4 years younger than Graham and, you know, only been in college for a couple of months.

So yeah, I did leave that off this list.

But I guess I could compare Grahams frosh numbers to Traes numbers this year.
 

IZAC

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Yeah, hard for Trae Young to match that considering hes a full 4 years younger than Graham and, you know, only been in college for a couple of months.

So yeah, I did leave that off this list.

But I guess I could compare Grahams frosh numbers to Traes numbers this year.

Obviously joking. At some point winning has to matter, though.

I can see an argument for Young winning it (conference anyway, not NPOY). Young is just a volume shooter on a bad team. He also hasn't been particularly great in this 4-10 stretch. In that stretch he's 38% from the field, 31% from three and averaging 6 TOs per game. Those aren't NPOY type numbers over almost half the season.
 
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kcjhawk23

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Young is def playing himself out of NPOY. Terrible decision making and even worse shot selection. He hasn’t learned to do the little things when shots aren’t falling....like play defense and playing within an offense.
Playing himself out of NPOY? He’s not even the POY in the Big XII. We can go ahead and write him off for NPOY, he ain’t winning it.
 

toonces11

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Playing himself out of NPOY? He’s not even the POY in the Big XII. We can go ahead and write him off for NPOY, he ain’t winning it.
I said that bc the seriousvslurping from Espn.
 

Mgkcbb

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Damn. Graham is getting dump trucked by Okie State for the 2nd time this season.
 

toonces11

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Young can’t be NPOY after getting zero coaches to vote him in for big 12 POY. Finished feb 1-7
 

Big_C_KU

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Young can’t be NPOY after getting zero coaches to vote him in for big 12 POY. Finished feb 1-7

I have no issue with Young winning NPOY. The fact is it is for a whole year and for the first 2/3 of the season the guy was unbelievable and no doubt the best player on the court in those games.

But for the last 1/3 of the season (majority of Big 12) he was not very good. I don't care about raw stats. Anyone who watched the games saw that he wasn't having the same positive impact as other players were.
 

Mgkcbb

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When you look at Traes conference only stats, they werent nearly as good as Devonte Grahams so Graham winning Big12 PoTY makes sense.

Trae started strong and then tapered off game 9 or 10 or so while Graham was over more consistent despite the occasional clunker like his 5/19 from the field against Trae or whatever it was game 1.

When you look at Traes season stats, nobody has had a better overall season than him so it wouldnt make sense to give the award to anyone else. Trae should be the national player of the year.
 

npreston

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Trae should be the national player of the year.
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