N.....NPOY

boilerzz

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Trae Young has put up some remarkable numbers. But numbers alone don't define value for me. That is why I would vote for Jalen Brunson for NPOY. Dude puts up great numbers and his leadership and calming influence are second to none.

Add that Trae Young is shooting just 38.2% overall and 24.7% from three for the entire month of February and it is pretty clear to me.
 

JimboBBN

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We are doing just fine without Trae. Wouldn't even trade Quade for him at this point.
 

Kevin Bryan

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All Young has done this year was break the Big 12 single-season scoring record, become the 1st frosh in 20 years to score 800, tied the single-game assist record, and leads the NCAA in scoring and assists (never been done). Most of you will hate it, but he's winning NPOY.
 

toonces11

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UK and KU fans are so jealous of Trae Young its hilarious. Duke fans openly acknowledge that if we swapped Trevon Duval with Trae Young, we'd be the greatest college basketball offense of all time.

This guy is simply ridiculous. People on here can't comprehend high usage players like Westbrook and Trae Young and assume that they're selfish.

I can't wait till Trae gets out of college and joins a team like the 76ers. Good luck double teaming Trae when you have to deal with Embiid and Simmons too.

OU has the worst roster among all Power 5 teams outside of Pitt. Trae Young has them on the verge of a NCAA tournament birth. That's truly remarkable.
You could switch a ton of players with duval that would make duke much better.
 

npreston

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All Young has done this year was break the Big 12 single-season scoring record, become the 1st frosh in 20 years to score 800, tied the single-game assist record, and leads the NCAA in scoring and assists (never been done). Most of you will hate it, but he's winning NPOY.
Yet he won’t win Big 12 POY.....
 
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bignish

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Yet he won’t win Big 12 POY.....
You're joking right? Who else will win it.

Trae Young leads the Big 12 in Points, 2-Point Field Goals, 3-Point Field Goals, 9th in Field Goal Percentage, 3rd in Free Throw Percentage, 1st in Assists, 5th in Steals and 2nd in PER.

If Devonte Graham and Jevon Carter were on this Oklahoma team, they'd have nowhere near the same stats.
 
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toonces11

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You're joking right? Who else will win it.

Trae Young leads the Big 12 in Points, 2-Point Field Goals, 3-Point Field Goals, 9th in Field Goal Percentage, 3rd in Free Throw Percentage, 1st in Assists, 5th in Steals and 2nd in PER.

If Devonte Graham and Jevon Carter were on this Oklahoma team, they'd have nowhere near the same stats.
...maybe not----but I bet they would have more wins. Young should finish third in big 12 POY voting, behind Evans and Graham. If Evans hadn't been injured, it might be a split b/t DG and Evans
 

bignish

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We are doing just fine without Trae. Wouldn't even trade Quade for him at this point.
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You don't think you would be higher than a 5 seed and tied for 3rd place in the SEC with Trae instead of Quade?

Dear Lord, there are no words at this point.
 
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kcjhawk23

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You're joking right? Who else will win it.

Trae Young leads the Big 12 in Points, 2-Point Field Goals, 3-Point Field Goals, 9th in Field Goal Percentage, 3rd in Free Throw Percentage, 1st in Assists, 5th in Steals and 2nd in PER.

If Devonte Graham and Jevon Carter were on this Oklahoma team, they'd have nowhere near the same stats.

Want to put money on DTae winning the Big XII POTY over Young? $100. I'll take DTae and you can have Young.
 

bignish

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Want to put money on DTae winning the Big XII POTY over Young? $100. I'll take DTae and you can have Young.
Nah, being the best player on the best team matters too much to people. I'm not going to put my hard earned money on that.
 

bignish

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Looks like you answered your own question.

Graham will win Big 12 POY, as he should. You know it, or you’d make the bet.
It just means that I know how the voters think, not that I neccessarily agree.

I strongly believe that if you replaced Devonte Graham with Trae Young on KU, your team would be better and have fewer losses but that's just my opinion.
 

npreston

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It just means that I know how the voters think, not that I neccessarily agree.

I strongly believe that if you replaced Devonte Graham with Trae Young on KU, your team would be better and have fewer losses but that's just my opinion.
You’re definitely entitled to your opinion, and I respect it. I disagree whole heartedly, as I know Self would never allow Trae to play so selfishly. His shot selection is awful. His assist to turnover ratio is even worse. Self wouldn’t give him the leash that Kruger has (not that Kruger really had a choice). Couple bad shots, and he’d ride the bench.

Graham makes everyone else around him better. He a better college player. Young may very well indeed have more success in the NBA. Wouldn’t surprise me if he does. However, Graham is the better of the two right now, and I’ll never be convinced otherwise.
 

bignish

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You’re definitely entitled to your opinion, and I respect it. I disagree whole heartedly, as I know Self would never allow Trae to play so selfishly. His shot selection is awful. His assist to turnover ratio is even worse. Self wouldn’t give him the leash that Kruger has (not that Kruger really had a choice). Couple bad shots, and he’d ride the bench.

Graham makes everyone else around him better. He a better college player. Young may very well indeed have more success in the NBA. Wouldn’t surprise me if he does. However, Graham is the better of the two right now, and I’ll never be convinced otherwise.
You don't think a HOFer like Self would help Trae become a better leader if you think he's being selfish and play better team basketball?

Trae is a top 10 draft pick right now and Graham will likely go undrafted. Trae is the more talented player and he's a better passer and shooter than Devonte. This isn't debatable; its just facts.

KU is still a title contender and #1 seed so its all good I guess.
 

Big_Blue79

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Isn’t the job of a good player, especially a PG, to elevate the players around him?

Who wins more, Lebron and 4 5th graders, or KD with 4 NBA players? Does that mean Lebron doesn't elevate his teammates? Of course not, because context and degrees matter.

You’re forgetting the most important stat, wins and losses. Harden and Westbrook have a ton. Young doesn’t. Young isn’t even the best player in the Big 12.

Remember when Westbrook led OKC to the 9th spot in the Western Conference sans Durant? Or last year, his MVP season, when he led them to the sixth seed and a first round exit? How about 2 years ago when Harden led the Rockets to a .500 record? But now Harden, with a better coach and much better players around him, is the front runner for MVP. Did Harden change a lot, or did circumstances? Now consider that Trae Young is on a terrible team.

You are 100% forgetting his terrible shots that happen by the handful every game that are essentially turnovers.

Oh, okay. They're literally not "essentially turnovers" because Oklahoma rebounds about 32% of its misses, and likely higher for his "terrible shots" as offensive rebound % is higher on 3s. Plus, you know, teams score far less in transition less off of rebounds than off of turnovers. Aside from that, and the fact that those shots are already accounted for in his excellent TS%, PER, and other indicators, good call. I agree he can do with less forced shots. He's far from perfect.

Now let's talk about how you "are 100% forgetting about his" gravity that is essentially moving defenders further away from his teammates.

I don't see an ounce of Harden or westbrook in him.

So same position, similar A/TO ratios (and both very high), similar insanely high usage rates, a TS% in the same ballpark as Harden (and vastly better than Westbrook), and you "don't see an ounce?" No one is saying they're dopplegangers, only that similar high usage/high turnover PGs have been awesome in the NBA.

Lets compare Trae Young, who runs Oklahomas offense, to guys in the NBA who do the exact same.

Trae Young per 100: 13.2 assists/7.9 turnovers

harden per 100 (this year): 12.2/5.9
harden per 100 (last year): 14.8/7.6

westbrook per 100 (this year) 14.3/6.5
westbrook per 100 (last year) 14.7/7.7


Harden and Westbrook finished 1-2 in league MVP voting last season with essentially the exact same assist/turnover numbers Trae has.


Seriously, the casual fan narratives that surround Trae Young are just so incredibly awful.

At least someone understands. Trae Young might not be NPOY, but the takes here are really just trashy hyperbole.
 
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Big_Blue79

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So you think OU improving by 6 wins is a huge stat to hang your hat on? And all six games are attributed to Young and not any of his teammates getting better? How many of his assists totals are b/c of swinging the ball to an open jump shooter? Dude is a ball hog---just look at his teammates body language when he goes into "me" mode. He shouldn't be the NPOY. I don't see an ounce of Harden or westbrook in him.

Why is that jump shooter open?
 
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Big_Blue79

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Dude puts up great numbers and his leadership and calming influence are second to none.

Add that Trae Young is shooting just 38.2% overall and 24.7% from three for the entire month of February and it is pretty clear to me.

I, too, enjoy a calming influence. You have lavender/chamomile candle for first or second team All-American?

It's clear he will not win any February Player of the Month Awards.

We are doing just fine without Trae. Wouldn't even trade Quade for him at this point.

This is some of the worst homerism I've seen. I love Quade, especially since I think we'll finally have a PG that will stay for multiple years (which is the only argument for Quade over Young that makes sense), but this is ridiculous.

That's what I figured.

He's basically saying he thinks voters are dumb, and you're hanging your hat on that? What a low bar for success you have.

Graham makes everyone else around him better.

Circular logic. X plays on a better team, therefore X makes everyone around him better. It may or may not be true, but it cannot substantiate itself.
 
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JimboBBN

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I, too, enjoy a calming influence. You have lavender/chamomile candle for first or second team All-American?

It's clear he will not win any February Player of the Month Awards.



This is some of the worst homerism I've seen. I love Quade, especially since I think we'll finally have a PG that will stay for multiple years (which is the only argument for Quade over Young that makes sense), but this is ridiculous.



He's basically saying he thinks voters are dumb, and you're hanging your hat on that? What a low bar for success you have.



Circular logic. X plays on a better team, therefore X makes everyone around him better. It may or may not be true, but it cannot substantiate itself.
If you think it’s ridiculous then you don’t know basketball. Our team chemistry is great right now with Quade. He’s not more talented than Trae, but he most certainly fits in better with our team than Young would. We don’t need anyone taking 30 shots a game.
 

toonces11

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Why is that jump shooter open?
Could be a myriad of reasons. Could be defense is gambling b/c they know Young forces plays, could be b/c good offensive spacing. Could be because he is great at moving off the ball. Could be because Trae is a very good player and drew a double team. The point isn't that he is a bad player. He is a very talented player. The point is he is a freshman player that oftentimes does not play within himself or the offense in games that takes his team out of rhythm and lowers the chance they have to beat an opponent by making plays within the offense. He is a freshman making boneheaded mistakes. I think the NPOY should be effective at both ends as well. He is a great offensive talent, esp since he is in year one. But once he got into conference play and played against tough conference defense---he struggled mightily. That doesn't happen very often to NPOY and certainly they don't lose nearly every game down the stretch.
 

Big_Blue79

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If you think it’s ridiculous then you don’t know basketball. Our team chemistry is great right now with Quade. He’s not more talented than Trae, but he most certainly fits in better with our team than Young would. We don’t need anyone taking 30 shots a game.

Trae Young isn't taking 30 shots a game at OU. But at UK he wouldn't be taking the 19.3 he's taking at OU, either. I think he's talented enough to adapt, but we'll probably see next year as he spaces for Embiid and Simmons.
 

kcjhawk23

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Who wins more, Lebron and 4 5th graders, or KD with 4 NBA players? Does that mean Lebron doesn't elevate his teammates? Of course not, because context and degrees matter.
That might be the dumbest thing I’ve heard on a rivals message board. We are talking about D1 athletes, not some fat boy playing YMCA ball.
 

Big_Blue79

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That might be the dumbest thing I’ve heard on a rivals message board. We are talking about D1 athletes, not some fat boy playing YMCA ball.

It was clearly an extreme hypothetical deliberately used to 1) make clear it was exaggerated (but thanks for pointing out the difference between D1 athletes and "some fat boy playing YMCA ball," I guess), and 2) keep the reader from fighting the hypothetical and force them to acknowledge the point (which flew over your head). It's a common argument strategy, but let me try again another way: Trae Young is making his teammates better with his play, flaws and all, but there's only so much a single player can do.

The right question to ask, if any, when someone says Young's teammates are terrible is "how terrible are they?" It is not "lolcats isn't a PG supposed to elevate his teammates rofl?" For former is seeking to solve a problem, the latter is a useless rhetorical question that can be simpler stated as "nuh-uh."
 
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npreston

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It was clearly an extreme hypothetical deliberately used to 1) make clear it was exaggerated (but thanks for pointing out the difference between D1 athletes and "some fat boy playing YMCA ball," I guess), and 2) keep the reader from fighting the hypothetical and force them to acknowledge the point (which flew over your head). It's a common argument strategy, but let me try again another way: Trae Young is making his teammates better with his play, flaws and all, but there's only so much a single player can do.
Bullshit.
 
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Mgkcbb

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Trae Young tonight vs lowly Iowa State:
32 minutes, 15 points. FG: 5-19 (26%). 3 pt: 1-9 (11%) Assist/TO: 6/2.

NPOY type numbers against an unranked team?
Um.... no.

So when Trae Young puts up historically elite numbers leading the nation in both points and assists, you push that casual fan narrative about "wins and losses."

Then, when Oklahoma dump trucks a team to move to 18-12, youre now back to wanting to look at stats.


Lol Trigga Trae gets the haters so so mad. All the more reason to like him.
 

npreston

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So when Trae Young puts up historically elite numbers leading the nation in both points and assists, you push that casual fan narrative about "wins and losses."

Then, when Oklahoma dump trucks a team to move to 18-12, youre now back to wanting to look at stats.


Lol Trigga Trae gets the haters so so mad. All the more reason to like him.
If Trae actually played like a NPOY in that game, OU wins by 40+. As @Kevin Bryan stated, he’s far too inconsistent. Should we look at the stats from the previous Baylor (35 minutes, 18 points, FG: 7/20, 3 pt: 2/11, 8 turnovers. EIGHT!)? Oh yea, wins and losses, they lost that game by 23 points (lol). But he played well in November and December, so there’s that.
 
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Mgkcbb

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No right Preston, Trae didnt pick Kansas so you keep having to reach and push these lol narratives to try and pretend that he isnt orders of magnitude better than any player on Kansas roster(he is). Got it.

May your anger subside one day soon bub, jealously isnt a good look for you!
 

npreston

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No right Preston, Trae didnt pick Kansas so you keep having to reach and push these lol narratives to try and pretend that he isnt orders of magnitude better than any player on Kansas roster(he is). Got it.

May your anger subside one day soon bub, jealously isnt a good look for you!
Keep telling yourself whatever makes you feel better. Have a nice day, big fella.
 

ExitFlagger

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No right Preston, Trae didnt pick Kansas so you keep having to reach and push these lol narratives to try and pretend that he isnt orders of magnitude better than any player on Kansas roster(he is). Got it.

May your anger subside one day soon bub, jealously isnt a good look for you!

Are Jay Williams and Greenberg jealous KU fans too?
 
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