Knight 30 by 30
- Thread starter Noahtogo24
- Start date
Yeah, that was umm, interesting.
Its also crazy to see that most of the folks that brought Knight down are dead and he’s still living.
The way I always took playing for Knight was like going through basic training.
The fact that the CNN journalist was horrified watching Full Metal Jacket confirmed this was nothing but a hit piece/overreach attack on Knight.
Was he hard? Did he cuss? Did he put his hands on his players? Yes but that was pretty commonplace especially in the military which was Knight's style. Now I never had a drill instructor lay his or her hands on me in basic (mid 2000s) but I did face the wrath of getting my ass chewed while I was doing 8 count body builders until I puked on a few occasions(You young folks wanting to join don't ever walk around with your hands in your pockets at basic).
Every player knew damn well the type of coach he was. They knew what they were getting into. If they didnt want that they could have went somewhere else.
The fact that the CNN journalist was horrified watching Full Metal Jacket confirmed this was nothing but a hit piece/overreach attack on Knight.
Was he hard? Did he cuss? Did he put his hands on his players? Yes but that was pretty commonplace especially in the military which was Knight's style. Now I never had a drill instructor lay his or her hands on me in basic (mid 2000s) but I did face the wrath of getting my ass chewed while I was doing 8 count body builders until I puked on a few occasions(You young folks wanting to join don't ever walk around with your hands in your pockets at basic).
Every player knew damn well the type of coach he was. They knew what they were getting into. If they didnt want that they could have went somewhere else.
Whoa, whoa, whoa . . . get in the victim line . . . UK is first.
So i just watched it. My opinions:
Knight is a Top 5 coach and No. 1 ranked asshole. He did a lot of great things on and off the court but he also did a lot of bad things off the court. We only saw one incident. Imagine the stuff we DIDN’T see. It’s also interesting that (at one point) K, Alford and other Knight players who went on to become coaches, had issues with him at one point or another (but they seem to be on good terms now).
All Knight had to do was change with the times. Sure, it’s easier said then done, but I think it has added more years to Coach K and other coaches longevity. You can’t use what you *thought* worked in 1965 and use it in 1995. You have to adjust with the times or get out of the way.
No one was surprised Knight had a lot of power at IU. As the piece mentioned, IU was adopting a new Code of Conduct, but Knight’s pesky 1987 NCAA Championship got in the way of real reform. It wasn’t until Knight started losing multiple times early in the NCAA Tournament when IU felt they had more leverage. That’s not real leadership. Had they checked Knight in 1987– even with his 3rd national Championship—then there would no incident in 1997. They waited til Knight was at his weakest (in terms of success in the NCAA Tournament) to finally decide to do something. They also should’ve called his bluff when he interviewed for the New Mexico job. IU had championships before Knight, but they were acting as if he built IU. Cowards.
Knight is a Top 5 coach and No. 1 ranked asshole. He did a lot of great things on and off the court but he also did a lot of bad things off the court. We only saw one incident. Imagine the stuff we DIDN’T see. It’s also interesting that (at one point) K, Alford and other Knight players who went on to become coaches, had issues with him at one point or another (but they seem to be on good terms now).
All Knight had to do was change with the times. Sure, it’s easier said then done, but I think it has added more years to Coach K and other coaches longevity. You can’t use what you *thought* worked in 1965 and use it in 1995. You have to adjust with the times or get out of the way.
No one was surprised Knight had a lot of power at IU. As the piece mentioned, IU was adopting a new Code of Conduct, but Knight’s pesky 1987 NCAA Championship got in the way of real reform. It wasn’t until Knight started losing multiple times early in the NCAA Tournament when IU felt they had more leverage. That’s not real leadership. Had they checked Knight in 1987– even with his 3rd national Championship—then there would no incident in 1997. They waited til Knight was at his weakest (in terms of success in the NCAA Tournament) to finally decide to do something. They also should’ve called his bluff when he interviewed for the New Mexico job. IU had championships before Knight, but they were acting as if he built IU. Cowards.
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Didn’t appreciate Knight lying on Neil Reed and his father and getting the IU players to lie either.
Yeah it’s nuts. I was at IU when they fired Knight. It was a wild, wild scene. One I’ll honestly never forget. I remember where I was, who I was with, and what I saw (thousands of kids running up Fee Lane) after the announcement. Crazy, crazy time.
Reminds me of Penn State's campus after Joepa was fired from what they showed.
Real classy line right here. 19 or 20 year old kid, maybe difficult to coach, I don't know. But definitely didn't deserve that. What if that were your kid who that happened to? And Reed is dead now, and this is your post?
I'm sure you're probably one of those that says he had it coming, or he wasn't choked... Better yet, I bet you think his neck walked into Knight's hand.
Right! I really wonder if the same people that make comments like that would be ok if Knight or ANYONE did that to their kid? I doubt they would let it pass.
The issue some have with Reed, is well, he did "lie". First he said Knight choked him with two hands...Then it was one. Said Knight snuck up on him. He did not. Said players/coaches had to pull Knight off of him; Did not happen. Did Knight choke him? Meh, he certainly grabbed him. Which is unexcuseable. Also, Reed was at IU for 3 full seasons. If his time at IU was such a torture, why did he stay three full seasons? Not to mention the timing in which the accusations came about. It wasn't until Knight MET with Reed and Mandeville and talked to them about transferring.
I'm in no way condoning what Knight did. But I do feel it was a tad overblown.
Lie? I mean, you saw the tape. Did you think Knight choked him, or simply grabbed him? To me, if he choked him, Reed would have had marks. And been in trouble; Knight's a big dude. It is irrelevant. Grabbed/choked, it doesn't matter. Should not have done what he did. BUT......I don't thin Knight got anyone to lie. I just don't think anyone but Neil Reed thought it was choking.
Not sure about the situation with dad. He was fired from his job. SO that was true.
I’ve spoken w two of his ex-players. One is tight-lipped (Guyton) and I didn’t know him well enough to pull much out. Have only really spoken to him once. But the other (Recker) is tight w a good friend of mine and has told some pretty damning stories. Knight was a maniacal piece of shit. Still seems to be by all accounts.
Sayin that, I’ve yet to watch the 30 for 30.
Sayin that, I’ve yet to watch the 30 for 30.
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Yes, blame the victim! Let’s not blame the psychotic coach that was caught putting his hands on a players neck ON VIDEO! Or the guy who HAS an explosive temper. Nope. One player didn’t get the EXACT details of that EXACT incident EXACTLY the way he remembered and you have doubts? FOH
In a way, you ARE condoning what Knight did. Hell, Reed could have been describing OTHER incidents NOT caught on tape. It happened. We saw it. KNIGHT went too far.
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In nio way shape or form am I blaming Reed, or condoning Knight's actions. But I am not surprised that is how you took it. MOF, everything you said---I SAID. I agreed. I just said it was blown out of proportion. And IMO, it was. TO me, he GRABBED Reed. Which, as I have said, was WRONG. Don't know how I can be any clearer on that.
He didn' get the details right not once, not twice---but three times. Does that excuse what happened? AGAIN---No. Again, not sure how I can be more clear.
Yes, Knight was caught on tape putting his HAND(not hands) on Reed. It also showed that the incident was brief; roughly 2-3 seconds. Which again went against what Reed said not once, not twice---but three times. It also did not show Knight having to be "pulled off" Reed.
WIth all of that, its why I feel the situation was waaaaay overblown. Doesn't make it right, or any less wrong. Just not as bad as Reed made it out to be.
Just watched it, if you're a father and the little girls signing balloons for their dad 4 years after he passed didn't bring a tear to your eye there is something wrong.
Anyone who claims Reed wasn't tough enough, or is just a bitch clearly doesn't have the slightest idea what their talking about!
He was without a doubt, one of the toughest kids I've ever seen come through there! I watched his freshman year when he had to have his dislocated shoulder popped back in on the bench to come back into the game and immediately dive for a loose ball....which in turn dislocated his shoulder once again. At which time he went to the bench for a few minutes and had it popped back in. Then proceeded to go back into the game and take a charge.
The kid displayed toughness in ways most of the people here wouldn't understand!
He was without a doubt, one of the toughest kids I've ever seen come through there! I watched his freshman year when he had to have his dislocated shoulder popped back in on the bench to come back into the game and immediately dive for a loose ball....which in turn dislocated his shoulder once again. At which time he went to the bench for a few minutes and had it popped back in. Then proceeded to go back into the game and take a charge.
The kid displayed toughness in ways most of the people here wouldn't understand!
We never got to see the full video of what happened. In what was shown it didn't seem like a choke but was still an inappropriate grabbing of the throat. Knight wasn't military he just coached at West Point. K was military and learned A LOT from Knight.. that being said I'm glad he isn't Bobby Knight Jr. Do all great coaches have a temper? Absolutely. Cussing out players is routine, the shit Knight did... Not so much. The thing is if it was a one time loss of temper I would be like, "ok it happened and was out of character." Problem is it seems to have been his modus operandi.
About 8 mins in 30 for 30 Rick Pitino stugotz on lebtard show funny as shit u gotta listen to it
https://podfanatic.com/podcast/the-dan-le-batard-show-with-stugotz/episode/hour-3-30-for-30
https://podfanatic.com/podcast/the-dan-le-batard-show-with-stugotz/episode/hour-3-30-for-30
Ha. Not at all. Should’ve been blown up more so. There are so many Knight stories akin this one, buried. He’s a total PoS. Deserves all the hell he receives. Sad people think it’s okay to destroy kids because the guy won some basketball games. Pathetic.
You have no idea. Actually, you do now that you’ve seen the 30 for 30. However, it’s just the surface, from the shit I’ve heard. Dude deserved all he got, and some.
At the time....absolutely! Now that were 18 years removed and the emotions of the moment is gone...not at all!
I honestly don't know how anyone can watch the video they showed of Reed watching the practice and not feel complete sadness for him. Especially with knowing how tough this kid was as a player and how desperately he wanted to play for IU. To see him choked up and fighting back tears over a video. .is imo heartbreaking! Then to know he died a few years later with this moment in his life still affecting him so much...
Is just sad!
Honestly, after watching the show, its left me embarrassed that I ever felt differently 18 years ago!
Thought it kinda sucked. Just rehashing an old story and then the kid dies in his 30s very sad.
The snippets of Knight going on those tirades was pretty great though. Man could he dog cuss the hell out of some youngsters.
The snippets of Knight going on those tirades was pretty great though. Man could he dog cuss the hell out of some youngsters.
What are your thoughts about the incident with the student on campus that ultimately got him fired?
I used to be the biggest Knight defender, but as I got older, my eyes were opened to hiw flawed of a human he was. But, he's also not nearly as one sided as your making him out to be either. There are countless of kind acts that hes done over the years. This is Knight at it's most simple foundation...if you accepted that he had control at all times and also obeyed all his commands...there isn't a better and more generous person to have in your corner.
But dear God, if you questioned him...he will burn your life down. That's why there aren't any past players who are indifferent about their time playing. Either you loved playing for him, or hated it....there were no middle ground with him.
The overwhelming majority of players have nothing but positives to say about him. So, I think its ridiculous to ignore 95% of his past players because 5% hated him.
I actually don't think that there's a more perfect example of a real life Jekyll and Hyde then Bobby Knight.
You weren't asking me, but I still to this day think the whole situation was stupid! I'm sure a version of the story really did happen, but it was stupid that he got fired for that particular infraction. That showed that Brand wanted him gone so the university could finally wash their hands of situation, but couldn't just fire him. So the implemented a stupid and unrealistic "zero tolerance plan" and just waited for him to fail. He deserved to be fired, so be a man and step up and fire him if you feel this way. Dont hide behind a catchy catchphrase!
(btw this was before zero tolerance became the mainstream way of handling any situation where you wanted to convey that you're serious this time. So yeah, you can go ahead and properly thank IU for helping to create a stupid saying that has zero benefit to anyone....we're#1)
Agreed. The guy did a lot of good. But, he ruined it by being a bully and trying to ruin lives. I think the scope of his behavior is much larger than the video covered. Just know there's much more we'll never know about, because so many players didn't want to talk, even the ones that have issues with him, which I get. I'm pretty sure Wooden, K, Dean, Roy, Self, Cal, and on and on and on... never pulled a hundredth of the crap Knight did, no pun intended, and are all great coaches. Knight went way too far on many occasions. He wished people dead, was offered an out, and doubled down. He's not a good man.
People were also horrified of the man. The Guyton instance sticks out to me, as he acted like he saw nothing. Then, we see the video and every kid on the court is watching Knight put his hand on Reed's neck. So many players of his kept their head down. It's just a sad situation, and don't think a guy that pulls that hasn't done worse.
Oh I completely agree with you here. Not sure where you're from, but in the 80s and 90's there wasn't a more powerful person within the state than Knight. He could ruin you in a second without even moving from his chair.
I thought I heard once that the kid that claimed Knight grabbed him was the son of a reporter that hated Knight.
It's been so long, it's gotten difficult to remember all of these little side stories. But, I think I remember something similar to what your mentioning.
Not sure, TBH. Never got the full details---Plus, I really do not recall. I mean, it was 18 years ago. I had a teacher do that to me---SO I guess it depends on how "violent" it was. Did he just simply grab the kid, scold him for what he felt was a disrespectful gesture? IDK. By the way it sounds, it wasn't as if Knight grabbed him by the arm, and drug him around campus.
