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Is Mark Few the best CBB coach in America?

ExitFlagger said:
It's definitely an advantage in terms of seeding. It guarantees that they always have one of the best records and a high seed as long as they fare okay in the non-con. Vs teams that don't care about those games nearly as much as they do. They also have the advantage of catching some of the most talented/athletic teams before they've been able to develop.
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Meh, I guess. Gonzaga this year has played a very, very tough OOC slate. Kansas, Iowa, WVU and UVA....Had Baylor scheduled. MOF, they have consitently played a solid OOC schedule. And keep in mind---for years, no one would play them. Saw it as a no-win situation.

Lately----Gonzaga has been as good as anyone.
 
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Original_Irish said:
Ok, just because it gets really annoying hearing it all the time. Someone explain to me how Gonzaga CONSISTENTLY underperforms in the tournament.

In 2008 Gonzaga lost as a 7 seed to #10 Davidson with Steph Curry. Since then, this is their tournament seed and how far they got.

2009: #4 Seed Sweet 16
2010: #8 Seed Round of 32
2011: #11 Seed Round of 32
2012: #7 Seed Round of 32
2013: #1 Seed Round of 32
2014: #8 Seed Round of 32
2015: #2 Seed Elite 8
2016: #11 Seed Sweet 16
2017: #1 Seed National Championship
2018: #4 Seed Sweet 16
2019: #1 Seed Elite 8

I see a team that gets accurately seeded. I see a team that has not lost a first round game in 11 straight tournaments, even though they have been a 7 seed once, an 8 seed twice and an 11 seed twice. Thats 5 50-50 first round games in a row that they have won.

My point is not to say that GU is the greatest tournament team, I'm just saying that this is not a team that has CONSISTENTLY UNDERACHIEVED like so many people say they have.
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I was getting ready to post exactly this. Yet I'll go a tad farther...

In Fews first season, 2000, GU was a 10-seed that advanced to the SW 16...The following year, as a 12 seed, right back in the SW 16...

Three times as a 10-seed or worse, Few has guided Gonzaga to the SW 16...
 
I agree with the sentiment of playing Gonzaga is more of a lose/lose situation. Kansas has never needed to beef up their schedule or find quality wins. Playing the zags doesn’t have a ton of upside bc people expect Kansas to win and if you do it’s ho hum. I think Gonzaga would do just fine in any power conference the past ten years.
 
toonces11 said:
I agree with the sentiment of playing Gonzaga is more of a lose/lose situation. Kansas has never needed to beef up their schedule or find quality wins. Playing the zags doesn’t have a ton of upside bc people expect Kansas to win and if you do it’s ho hum. I think Gonzaga would do just fine in any power conference the past ten years.
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Obviously you mean in years past----correct? Not recently.
 
hawkit3113 said:
That might be the dumbest thing you have posted, ever.

Conferences are about the grind
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Yeah.....Okie, doke. Because you know, in the ACC, SEC, Big 10 or B12----you are gonna play MSU, UK, Kansas , UNC level teams, every night.

You are gonna play 7, 8 or so games vs Top tier comp...Then you are gonna play same amount vs middle shelf, lower tier teams....Of those top tier games, you are gonna play at least half at home.

Few has shown his teams can compete with high level programs....No reason to think he couldnt and wouldn't consistently win 14+ conference games in the a major conference.
 
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IUfanBorden said:
Obviously you mean in years past----correct? Not recently.
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No. Not really. It’s like scheduling Wichita State. The win is nowhere near as sweet as the loss is bitter. I’d even go as far to say a Kansas win against UK, Duke, and unc this season would mean more than a win against Gonzaga in the long run (Reg season). It’s just how I view it. Nobody is giving us shit for losing to the zags bc they are #1. But wins against blue bloods last years.
 
IUfanBorden said:
Yeah.....Okie, doke. Because you know, in the ACC, SEC, Big 10 or B12----you are gonna play MSU, UK, Kansas , UNC level teams, every night.

You are gonna play 7, 8 or so games vs Top tier comp...Then you are gonna play same amount vs middle shelf, lower tier teams....Of those top tier games, you are gonna play at least half at home.

Few has shown his teams can compete with high level programs....No reason to think he couldnt and wouldn't consistently win 14+ conference games in the a major conference.
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I think you are right. 14 is high.
 
toonces11 said:
No. Not really. It’s like scheduling Wichita State. The win is nowhere near as sweet as the loss is bitter. I’d even go as far to say a Kansas win against UK, Duke, and unc this season would mean more than a win against Gonzaga in the long run (Reg season). It’s just how I view it. Nobody is giving us shit for losing to the zags bc they are #1. But wins against blue bloods last years.
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Huh? Since when in the past 5 seasons does anyone expect someone to beat Gonzaga? No chance you are being serious? A win THIS year vs a UK, Duke or UNC would mean more than a win vs Gonzaga? Are you fuking drunk?

Man this isn't 1999 anymore, when Gonzaga was bursting onto the scene. They are a perennial Top 5-10 team every year...

Some of ya'll need to get off this "blue blood shit". Every school you mentioned, Gonzaga has been better than since 2015....
 
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toonces11 said:
I think you are right. 14 is high.
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I don't think it is(14). Insert Gonzaga into the Big 10, ACC, SEC or B12...Show me a schedule where you do not see them getting 14 wins?

10 home games/10 road games...

8+ wins at a bare minimum at home...6+ wins on the road...

Few has evolved...He is getting better players...They are staying 3-4 years.

I see no scenario where his teams today are not winning at least 14 games a year in any major conference.
 
ExitFlagger said:
Even in your arbitrary timeframe, that's probably not true.
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Gonzaga has been to 5 straight SW 16's.....Three Elite 8's and a FF(title game).

Kansas-- 3 SW 16's....3 Elite 8's....1 FF

Duke-- 4 SW 16's, 3 Elite 8's......NO FF's

UK--- 3 SW 16's....3 Elite 8's....NO FF

UNC--- 3 SW 16's.....2 Elite 8's....2 FF's(1 title).

Sans UNC, they(GU) have been as good, if not better...
 
hawkit3113 said:
Borden refs rec league ball and knows everything. Don't waste your time
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Naaah...I just don't talk to hear myself speak...I actually research shit. Not to mention, I studied Sports History/journalism while in college...
 
IUfanBorden said:
Naaah...I just don't talk to hear myself speak...I actually research shit. Not to mention, I studied Sports History/journalism while in college...
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So you and I watching the same game, gives you more knowledge?

**** you man. This game is in my blood
 
ExitFlagger said:
Even in your arbitrary timeframe, that's probably not true.
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What time frame shall I use? The one where Gonzaga was an up and coming program, so that it fits your narrative? Or, should I use a time frame that is actually relevant to the discussion?

Do you think TODAY...as in RIGHT NOW, a win over UK, Duke or UNC, would seem better than a win over Gonzaga?
 
hawkit3113 said:
So you and I watching the same game, gives you more knowledge?

**** you man. This game is in my blood
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Watching? No.

Actually researching someting before I open my mouth? Yes.

I am talking about knowing the game...I am talking about knowing the history....A teams history. What they have done. Who they have beaten...Played, etc, etc...

Everyone has this notion that GU has under performed their seeding...Truth is---they have not.
 
IUfanBorden said:
Watching? No.

Actually researching someting before I open my mouth? Yes.

I am talking about knowing the game...I am talking about knowing the history....A teams history. What they have done. Who they have beaten...Played, etc, etc...

Everyone has this notion that GU has under performed their seeding...Truth is---they have not.
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I didn't say they did, I am just saying...major conference ball is a grind
 
hawkit3113 said:
I didn't say they did, I am just saying...major conference ball is a grind
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I agree....It is. BUt that being said----dial up Gonzaga in the Big 10. THis year....lat year....Past few years...You know the game, brother...Tell me they wouldn't be a top tier team every single year.
 
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IUfanBorden said:
I agree....It is. BUt that being said----dial up Gonzaga in the Big 10. THis year....lat year....Past few years...You know the game, brother...Tell me they wouldn't be a top tier team every single year.
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They would. They are good.

What I hate about the Big 10 is the venues and the coaches.

The venues speak for themselves and from a coaching standpoint, once one coach figures you out, they all pounce like hyenes lololol.

At least they do to Iowa. : )
 
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Few is right there with wright, self, k et al. for me. In terms of coaching. I’d love to see him at a P5 school but also love his loyalty to the school that hired him and the program he’s built.
 
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RichardMassive said:
He’s an old school coach that heavily focuses on instilling toughness in his teams. so yeah, they’re a bitch to play against from that standpoint. I don’t think he develops players well for the modern NBA though and feel like the game is passing him by a bit.
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:rolleyes: #nobias

The game is passing him by a bit? Are you basing that on literally just the last two weeks?

He's won the last three B1G titles, beat Zion-led Duke to go to the Final Four two years ago, and was an easy Final Four favorite last year before Covid ruined everything.

In his absolute worst years his teams are still competitive upper-half of the conference teams that are guaranteed to make the NCAA tournament. How many coaches can say that?
 
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IUfanBorden said:
Gonzaga has been to 5 straight SW 16's.....Three Elite 8's and a FF(title game).

Kansas-- 3 SW 16's....3 Elite 8's....1 FF

Duke-- 4 SW 16's, 3 Elite 8's......NO FF's

UK--- 3 SW 16's....3 Elite 8's....NO FF

UNC--- 3 SW 16's.....2 Elite 8's....2 FF's(1 title).

Sans UNC, they(GU) have been as good, if not better...
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I think this supports my hypothesis.
 
IUfanBorden said:
Gonzaga has been to 5 straight SW 16's.....Three Elite 8's and a FF(title game).

Kansas-- 3 SW 16's....3 Elite 8's....1 FF

Duke-- 4 SW 16's, 3 Elite 8's......NO FF's

UK--- 3 SW 16's....3 Elite 8's....NO FF

UNC--- 3 SW 16's.....2 Elite 8's....2 FF's(1 title).

Sans UNC, they(GU) have been as good, if not better...
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If you’re basing it solely on the tourney, which you are, UNC was clearly better. Also, you left out Duke’s title in ‘15. That makes them better as well.

KU was more consistent overall in that stretch. Gonzaga made it a round further a few times, but they also were an 11 seed one year. KU finished top 5 four times in that stretch, #1 overall in ‘16 and would have been #1 overall last year. They also averaged nearly as many wins in a waaaay better league.
 
ExitFlagger said:
If you’re basing it solely on the tourney, which you are, UNC was clearly better. Also, you left out Duke’s title in ‘15. That makes them better as well.



KU was more consistent overall in that stretch. Gonzaga made it a round further a few times, but they also were an 11 seed one year. KU finished top 5 four times in that stretch, #1 overall in ‘16 and would have been #1 overall last year. They also averaged nearly as many wins in a waaaay better league.
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I said SINCE 2015....Meaning, 2016, 17, 18 and 19...

I just mentioned GU has been to 5 straight SW 16's....

And even if we start at 2015----How the **** was KU more consistent?

Point is as well, maybe UNC has a slight edge---Actually they do. But, no one else does. At worse, its pretty even.
 
IUfanBorden said:
I said SINCE 2015....Meaning, 2016, 17, 18 and 19...

I just mentioned GU has been to 5 straight SW 16's....

And even if we start at 2015----How the **** was KU more consistent?

Point is as well, maybe UNC has a slight edge---Actually they do. But, no one else does. At worse, its pretty even.
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Ok, well if we’re talking 2016-present, how has KU not been better? #1 overall in ‘16, would have been #1 overall last year. 3 elite 8s, 1 FF vs 2 elite 8s and 1 FF. Higher average seed and close to the same win average in a much better league.

Actually if you look season by season, overall, they were very similar. Gonzaga had a clear advantage in ‘19, when KU was short-handed, KU a clear advantage in ‘16.

I’m betting KU wouid have a clear advantage overall if Udoka had a chance to play in more than 1 tourney in his four years.
 
ExitFlagger said:
Ok, well if we’re talking 2016-present, how has KU not been better? #1 overall in ‘16, would have been #1 overall last year. 3 elite 8s, 1 FF vs 2 elite 8s and 1 FF. Higher average seed and close to the same win average in a much better league.

Actually if you look season by season, overall, they were very similar. Gonzaga had a clear advantage in ‘19, when KU was short-handed, KU a clear advantage in ‘16.

I’m betting KU wouid have a clear advantage overall if Udoka had a chance to play in more than 1 tourney in his four years.
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At the end of the day.....Gonzaga has been as good, equal, if not better than most elite programs , i.e. UNC, Duke, KU, UK, etc, etc....THing is people wanna knock GU for playing in a shitty league, piling up high seeds, then underperforming....And that is false. It just is. Their league otside of them , BYU and SMU, isn't very good----no doubt. But the Zags make up for that by playing a solid OOC slate....

THen, they back up those rankings, and seeds, in the NCAAT. Look at their seeding by year, and what they did....SInce Few arrived in 2000...

2000: 10 seed: SW 16
2001: 12 seed: SW 16
2002: 6 seed: 1st round
2003: 9 seed: 2nd rd
2004: 2 seed: 2nd rd
2005: 3 seed: 2nd rd
2006: 3 seed: SW 16
2007: 10 seed: 1st rd
2008: 7 seed: 1st round
2009: 4 seed: SW 16
2010: 8 seed: 2nd rd
2011: 11 seed: 2nd rd
2012: 7 seed: 2nd rd
2013: 1 seed: 2nd round
2014: 8 seed: 2nd tound
2015: 2 seed: Elite 8
2016: 11 seed: SW 16
2017: 1 seed: Runner-Up
2018: 4 seed: SW 16
2019: 1 seed: Elite 8

2020 Was likely a 1 seed again.

Few has not played to seed 3 times in 19 NCAAT's. He was went to the SW 16 three times as a 10 seed or worse Has not lost in the 1st round since 2008----And that is is being an 11 seed twice....8 seed twice and a 7 seed.

Why people get so caught up with the, "Gonzaga gets high seeds, always fails with them" is beyond me...Its simply not true...He has been a 4 seed or better, 9 times...6 times he has went to the SW 16 or better....

The past 5 years, Few has upgraded his rosters....It has shown.

Just never understood the disdain for this program...Few has built a very, very good program, taht for the past 5 seasons, is on par with any in the country.
 
IUfanBorden said:
Huh? Since when in the past 5 seasons does anyone expect someone to beat Gonzaga? No chance you are being serious? A win THIS year vs a UK, Duke or UNC would mean more than a win vs Gonzaga? Are you fuking drunk?

Man this isn't 1999 anymore, when Gonzaga was bursting onto the scene. They are a perennial Top 5-10 team every year...

Some of ya'll need to get off this "blue blood shit". Every school you mentioned, Gonzaga has been better than since 2015....
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Nobody remembers when they "beat gonzaga in 2017". Almost every fan remembers when they beat Kansas, Duke, UNC. I mean...it is what it is. Again, this is my own opinion.
 
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northeastspartan said:
:rolleyes: #nobias

The game is passing him by a bit? Are you basing that on literally just the last two weeks?

He's won the last three B1G titles, beat Zion-led Duke to go to the Final Four two years ago, and was an easy Final Four favorite last year before Covid ruined everything.

In his absolute worst years his teams are still competitive upper-half of the conference teams that are guaranteed to make the NCAA tournament. How many coaches can say that?
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#7 in Kenpom is not necessarily an easy final 4 favorite.
 
northeastspartan said:
MSU had just ripped through four straight wins over ranked teams to win the B1G for the third straight year. The team had the look and feel of all the great Izzo teams.

Kenpom changes nothing about my post...
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There's a very real chance they were the 2 seed in tournament favorite Kansas' region
 
hailtoyourvictor said:
There's a very real chance they were the 2 seed in tournament favorite Kansas' region
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tenor.gif
 
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