Is CBB Better When Duke is Good Enough to Hate?

[coryfly]

Again 3 people of a specific type vs one of a different type does not strengthen your position. I suppose you asked a group of Duke fans which is better Duke or UNC, you would find a different consensus depending on the group you asked.

It's a basketball question. Basketball people are going to know more about this topic than people who aren't as basketball focused. Why would a fan of x or y matter? I don't want people to hate on UNC. Aren't you the one who told Dukedevilz you were asking about 'this board' anyway? He isn't even responding to you anymore. My guess he just finds your takes too unreasonable but IDK>

 

[della]

It's a basketball question. Basketball people are going to know more about this topic than people who aren't as basketball focused. Why would a fan of x or y matter? I don't want people to hate on UNC. Aren't you the one who told Dukedevilz you were asking about 'this board' anyway? He isn't even responding to you anymore. My guess he just finds your takes too unreasonable but IDK>

It's a CBB question and it was a CBB answer. Are you kidding asking why would the type fan matter? I mentioned that this was a board we were familiar with and I was basing my opinion on it. Of course you dodged my taking it to this board, so why would you bring it up now? If you don't know about Dukie why bring it up? Just too arrogant and condescending not too?

 

[coryfly]

It's a CBB question and it was a CBB answer. Are you kidding asking why would the type fan matter? I mentioned that this was a board we were familiar with and I was basing my opinion on it. Of course you dodged my taking it to this board, so why would you bring it up now? If you don't know about Dukie why bring it up? Just too arrogant and condescending not too?

Saying our fandom impacts our answer is only fair if you admit yours does as well. Maybe you will concede you are biased though. I would prefer people NOT hate on UNC though. Dealt with enough of that during the scandal nonsense.

Again, you admit you aren't really a basketball fan first, no? So then it makes sense to listen to those who are when they all agree.

Dodged what? No idea what you are talking about.

Regarding Dukedeviz, that's why I said IDK. It is probably what I should have done long ago though.

 

[della]

Saying our fandom impacts our answer is only fair if you admit yours does as well. Maybe you will concede you are biased though. I would prefer people NOT hate on UNC though. Dealt with enough of that during the scandal nonsense.

Again, you admit you aren't really a basketball fan first, no? So then it makes sense to listen to those who are when they all agree.

Dodged what? No idea what you are talking about.

Regarding Dukedeviz, that's why I said IDK. It is probably what I should have done long ago though.

Are you saying you're a basketball fan above a UNC fan? Furthermore, I think most people are fans of their teams more than fans of the sport.

Do you think people that are fans of a team first can't be fair and reasonable because they like their team? I would argue against that.

I could tell what you dodged again, but I can't make you understand it, so what's the point? You appear to not know a lot of things that most folks have knowledge of for example "patting yourself on the bacK". It is a common expression, look it up.

Probably you should have just stfu since you didn't actually know what Dukedelviz was thinking or you could have looked for context and read my last post to him before he left the conversation. Those sound like two good options.

 

[coryfly]

Are you saying you're a basketball fan above a UNC fan? Furthermore, I think most people are fans of their teams more than fans of the sport.

Do you think people that are fans of a team first can't be fair and reasonable because they like their team? I would argue against that.

I could tell what you dodged again, but I can't make you understand it, so what's the point? You appear to not know a lot of things that most folks have knowledge of for example "patting yourself on the bacK". It is a common expression, look it up.

Probably you should have just stfu since you didn't actually know what Dukedelviz was thinking or you could have looked for context and read my last post to him before he left the conversation. Those sound like two good options.

But you saying fandom matters should go both ways, right? Are we fair or are we not? Are we not able to be unbiased but you are?

You are missing the mark with your condescension here. You aren't going to upset me regardless of how petty you want to try and be. I know all the phrases you know, but they need to make sense in the way you use them.

I certainly understand why you don't want to explain to me what I 'dodged' and instead go the route you have gone here. Probably a good move for you.

I'm probably not going to 'stfu' about it though. If that was the case I never would have said it in the first place. And again I would suggest you try and take the emotion out of it and calm down a little before engaging again.

You made a pretty silly point about something. It isn't the end of the world. Get over it.

 

[della]

But you saying fandom matters should go both ways, right? Are we fair or are we not? Are we not able to be unbiased but you are?

You are missing the mark with your condescension here. You aren't going to upset me regardless of how petty you want to try and be. I know all the phrases you know, but they need to make sense in the way you use them.

I certainly understand why you don't want to explain to me what I 'dodged' and instead go the route you have gone here. Probably a good move for you.

I'm probably not going to 'stfu' about it though. If that was the case I never would have said it in the first place. And again I would suggest you try and take the emotion out of it and calm down a little before engaging again.

You made a pretty silly point about something. It isn't the end of the world. Get over it.

You didn't answer the question. Are you a fan of basketball 1st and a fan of UNC second? You brought the subject up, so where do you stand on it?

I'm not missing with the condescending remarks, I'm just matching. Well, yours aren't upsetting me either, so we have that in common.

I don't think you do understand the dodging comment, I have explained it more than once. If you know them then why lie and say you don't? That is not very constructive is it? Maybe, you are just being willfully obtuse.

I can see why you wouldn't stfu on talking about things you admit knowing nothing about. It appears par for your course.

I made an opinionated comment and you did too. The problem is that when you stated [your comment still stands] and I said mine does to, you wouldn't accept that. You insisted that I was just wrong. Well, I think you're wrong.

 

[coryfly]

You think I'm wrong? Great. I already knew you felt that way though. You can tell me a hundred more times if you need to. It won't change the reality of the situation. The entire basis of this discussion is whether basketball fans want the bluebloods to lose more than random teams that haven't had the same success.

I know l I insulted Barnes. I know that upset you and sent you off the rails a bit. I wish he would do a little better in the tournament so it's frustrating to me that he doesn't. However, that had little to do with the argument. Shouldn't have mentioned his tournament success/failures. That wasn't helpful.

This next part is helpful though. When everyone you know tells you how silly your argument is that maybe you should just realize it is exactly that.

 

[della]

You think I'm wrong? Great. I already knew that though. You can tell me a hundred more times if you need to. It won't change the reality of the situation. The entire basis of this discussion is whether basketball fans want the bluebloods to lose more than random teams that haven't had the same success.

I know l I insulted Barnes. I know that upset you and sent you off the rails a bit. I wish he would do a little better in the tournament so it's frustrating to me that he doesn't. However, that had little to do with the argument. Shouldn't have mentioned his tournament success/failures. That wasn't helpful.

This next part is helpful though. When everyone you know tells you how silly your argument is that maybe you should just realize it is exactly that.

You think I'm wrong and I think you're wrong. That is the reality of the situation. I have stayed on point the whole way, you are the one that lashed out with Barnes, FF's and others opinions, so you ran off the rails, not me.

I know more than three people Cory. Since you're in the market of giving advice just remember though you might think you know it all, you don't in fact know it all.

Again, the issue is when I was willing to end the discussion with you saying what you thought still stood and I said what I said still stands too. You wouldn't let it go.

 

[coryfly]

You think I'm wrong and I think you're wrong. That is the reality of the situation. I have stayed on point the whole way, you are the one that lashed out with Barnes, FF's and others opinions, so you ran off the rails, not me.

I know more than three people Cory. Since you're in the market of giving advice just remember though might think you know it all, you don't in fact know it all.

Again, the issue is when I was willing to end the discussion with you saying what you thought still stood and I said what I said still stands too. You wouldn't let it go.

I didn't lash out with anything, lol. You were vehement that the type of fan mattered and you still haven't addressed your own biases yet, only indicated that the biases belong to others.

You know more than three people? And I in fact need to understand that I don't know it all, right? But I'm the arrogant one, right?

You were not willing to discuss it. You were for a bit and then you got emotional. You never really acknowledge the points you can't really refute.

The best argument you could have made was that Tennessee winning scared Kentucky a little in terms of SEC dominance. Make it more micro than macro. Localize it or something. On a national scale it is going to be hard to make the argument that a team like Tennessee is more of a threat to people or agitator than a blue blood.

You still haven't addressed the points you ASKED me to list for you.

So let's simplify it. Here is an easy analogy to understand. I'm a Titans fan. If the Titans play the Cowboys in the Super Bowl who do you think people will pull for? Cowboys fans will pull for the Cowboys. Almost every other football fan will pull for the Titans. Why do you think that is? All of those reasons that people pull for the Titans are exacerbated when it comes to college sports. You won't address this I'm sure but it was worth a try.

 

[coryfly]

Bed time @della. Fun discussion. Helped pass the time since I'm snowed in. I truly hope Barnes makes some noise in the tournament. IMO, Phillips and JJJ are the keys there. We'll see.

 

[della]

I didn't lash out with anything, lol. You were vehement that the type of fan mattered and you still haven't addressed your own biases yet, only indicated that the biases belong to others.

You know more than three people? And I in fact need to understand that I don't know it all, right? But I'm the arrogant one, right?

You were not willing to discuss it. You were for a bit and then you got emotional. You never really acknowledge the points you can't really refute.

The best argument you could have made was that Tennessee winning scared Kentucky a little in terms of SEC dominance. Make it more micro than macro. Localize it or something. On a national scale it is going to be hard to make the argument that a team like Tennessee is more of a threat to people or agitator than a blue blood.

You still haven't addressed the points you ASKED me to list for you.

So let's simplify it. Here is an easy analogy to understand. I'm a Titans fan. If the Titans play the Cowboys in the Super Bowl who do you think people will pull for? Cowboys fans will pull for the Cowboys. Almost every other football fan will pull for the Titans. Why do you think that is? All of those reasons that people pull for the Titans are exacerbated when it comes to college sports. You won't address this I'm sure but it was worth a try.

Yeah you did, you even admitted it about Barnes ect.. I knew things weren't going well for, so I didn't mind your temper.

You, flagger and Dukedelvz, the 3 folks that take your position. You pitifully have tried to make your position some kind of consensus. I mentioned y'all were all BB fans and as a non BB I disagree. For the record Noah said he didn't care.

I asked you if you want to respond first to #1 and you did and that took us where we are now. If you wanted to circle back you should have done so instead of carrying the conversation in this direction.

In your Pro football example you talk about who people will pull for, but that is different than hate. If everyone thinks the Cowboys will win then it won't be a big deal because it doesn't shake up the world pecky order. However, The Vols winning it all does shake up the pecky order of CBB. There is a shock value in the unknown winning that is not accounted for with the bi favorite winning it all. However, You can micro and macro all you want, but people don't like change. Fans are use to UNC and Duke winning it all. It is hard to get mad and shocked at something you have seen played out time after time. Furthermore, on this board with all the UK fans ( the board I said I was talking about) there would be more hate for UT. IMO

Now are you a fan of basketball first or of UNC first?

 

[della]

Bed time @della. Fun discussion. Helped pass the time since I'm snowed in. I truly hope Barnes makes some noise in the tournament. IMO, Phillips and JJJ are the keys there. We'll see.

Good nite Cory.

 

[GhostOf301]

Nobody would give a shit if Tennessee won the basketball championship. The Titans example is actually spot on. If it were Tennessee vs Kentucky, just about everyone outside of Kentucky fans would be rooting for Tennessee. Their world would be far more disrupted (in a figurative way) if Kentucky won a championship than if Tennessee did. Nobody's bragging rights are being taken away by Tennessee winning the championship.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Yeah you did, you even admitted it about Barnes ect.. I knew things weren't going well for, so I didn't mind your temper.

You, flagger and Dukedelvz, the 3 folks that take your position. You pitifully have tried to make your position some kind of consensus. I mentioned y'all were all BB fans and as a non BB I disagree. For the record Noah said he didn't care.

I asked you if you want to respond first to #1 and you did and that took us where we are now. If you wanted to circle back you should have done so instead of carrying the conversation in this direction.

In your Pro football example you talk about who people will pull for, but that is different than hate. If everyone thinks the Cowboys will win then it won't be a big deal because it doesn't shake up the world pecky order. However, The Vols winning it all does shake up the pecky order of CBB. There is a shock value in the unknown winning that is not accounted for with the bi favorite winning it all. However, You can micro and macro all you want, but people don't like change. Fans are use to UNC and Duke winning it all. It is hard to get mad and shocked at something you have seen played out time after time. Furthermore, on this board with all the UK fans ( the board I said I was talking about) there would be more hate for UT. IMO

Now are you a fan of basketball first or of UNC first?

A Kentucky fan would not want to see Tennessee win it all, but they’d much rather have that than Duke, UNC, KU or UCLA win it. Those programs threaten their all-time status. That’s what they care about most.

As for not liking change, I’m not sure where you get that idea. Everybody got sick of the Patriots, Alabama, etc. No one outside of those two fanbases wants to see them win. It’s even happened with Mahomes and the Chiefs, and he only has one Super Bowl win so far.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

A Kentucky fan would not want to see Tennessee win it all, but they’d much rather have that than Duke, UNC, KU or UCLA win it. Those programs threaten their all-time status. That’s what they care about most.

Spot on.

Same as Butler, same as any other Johnny come lately.

No one gives a shit. When fans are on another level, it's all about all-time stats.

UK fans didn't give a shit about Duke for the longest time. They made us care. Not by beating us in the regular season, but by the amount of stats they put up in the postseason.

No one gave a shit about UConn with their first title...or two...but when winning 4 and you're gaining at some BB's expense. Amazing how much attention they get.

I didn't really care about KU that much as they were not threatening up until recently. It had nothing to do with the back-and-forth regular season games.


100% all-time stats.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Gonzaga is a great example of a johnny come lately. They've been right there knocking on the door.

Threatening, a little, one could become two, and so on. The fact is, they're a legit contender.

Still hard to get upset about them winning one or two.

*I would much rather a johnny come lately win one or two than a BB win one or two more.

No brainer. There's padding and they're not threatening the establishment.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Also, history shows they can't keep it up. It's usually just one good coach they got lucky with.


Which makes them even less concerning. Duke really was never at this level, they had a history of FFs and winning prior to K.

Fun thread to read nonetheless.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I can't wait but also realize I will regret IU getting great again.

It's almost like a grown men's club. Others will come and go, but we know who the ballers are.

It took UConn to become a baller in 20+ years with 4 titles.

Florida won back-to-back and is still at the kids' table. They didn't disrupt anything. Had a flash in the pan and poof.

I'm sure they thought they were the new Kings.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Hear me out . . . There seems to be a lot of parity this year, no one team that anybody seems overly impressed with. Now that K is gone, the media certainly seems to have less to fixate on and hype. Even when things are divisive when there’s a “”villian”, I think it’s more interesting than the homgenized theme that seems to be ruling right now.

Is it just me?

Yes. Much better.

 

[GhostOf301]

If I'm being real, unc is the only team that I would root for Gonzaga to win the title over. I am over them. Frauds.

 

[WojoRising]

CBB must be pretty terrible this season