I feel like getting in a verbal argument with someone about college basketball - the thread

[JC for 3]

Kind of telling only one counts now.

This where it becomes convenient for some. 40's titles doesn't matter, wins back then don't matter, point shaving matters, wins doesn't matter, NIT's matter. Modern era is the way to go until it doesn't.

Picking and choosing is weak.

Timeframing.... always a loser's argument.

 

[JC for 3]

Just rip on UK, Duke, UnC, or Kansas OP. Fans of those programs can’t help themselves if you are to delittle their programs

'delittle'...??? It's not even 4:20 yet. There goes your excuse.

 

[AuHoosier420]

'delittle'...??? It's not even 4:20 yet. There goes your excuse.

You need to get better at message boarding. Go spend some time on the MB. Do you no post again until you are better at this

 

[JC for 3]

You need to get better at message boarding. Go spend some time on the MB. Do you no post again until you are better at this

...says the guy that can't post in any sensible manner whatsoever.

 

[AuHoosier420]

...says the guy that can't post in any sensible manner whatsoever.

LOL. This guy

 

[GE Nole]

VCU is probably in an okay situation because their conference is halfway decent. I think they're safely in the tournament as of right now. But, most mid-majors don't get the same opportunities as VCU.

I mentioned Belmont getting an at-large last year. That was nice to see. Now take their crosstown rival, Lipscomb. They didn't get a bid, but advanced all the way to the NIT Final. In the regular season, they defeated TCU and SMU on the road. They lost to Louisville on the road by 4. Also, lost to Clemson on the road. They lost twice to their rivals, Belmont. They went 1-2 against Liberty (Round of 32 team), losing in the conference tournament final. Overall record was 25-7 in the regular season. Finished 45th in the KenPom rankings. They were worthy of a bid, IMO.

My contention is that bubble teams from power conferences get the benefit of the doubt, all the time. I posted the records of 7 schools that all had very poor records in Quad 1 Games. All 7 schools won less than 30% of their Quad 1 Games. Lipscomb went 2-3 in Quad 1 Games (40%). And the 3 losses were by a combined 12 points. I'm not saying we need 4 or 5 more mid-majors every year, but almost ever year there is always one deserving mid-major that is left out. The most egregious omission was probably Utah State in 2004. They lost 3 games in the regular season. Once on the road to Utah (tournament team). And the other two were by a combined 5 points.

I’m not disagreeing on the face of it. I just don’t think it’s as big of an issue as you’re stating. I actually think it was WORSE 10-15 years ago, with the Utah State example being an egregious one.

My point about VCU was, it hurts other mid majors when a team like that gets 2 chances and loses both. As for Lipscomb last year, I’d have been okay if they got in. They were a good team. But that same Clemson team they lost to finished 36th in KenPom, 9-9 in the ACC, and didn’t get in. Basically, a roughly equivalent team from a Power league was also sent to the NIT.

Now, I think there are specific teams from power leagues that seem to get the benefit of the doubt. UF lately. Texas. UNC. Some others. But on the whole I think the committee has become more inclusive, not less.

There are power conference teams that occasionally get shafted too. FSU in 2006 is a great example. 38th on KenPom, 9-7 in ACC, win over Number 1 Duke. Or 2007 FSU. 34th on KenPom, wins over eventual national champ UF, at Duke, and 4 seed Maryland, with half their losses coming when their starting PG had a broken hand.

The biggest difference in the raw mid-major numbers now compared to 15 years ago is there are just fewer mid majors.

 

[dukedevilz]

I’m not disagreeing on the face of it. I just don’t think it’s as big of an issue as you’re stating. I actually think it was WORSE 10-15 years ago, with the Utah State example being an egregious one.

My point about VCU was, it hurts other mid majors when a team like that gets 2 chances and loses both. As for Lipscomb last year, I’d have been okay if they got in. They were a good team. But that same Clemson team they lost to finished 36th in KenPom, 9-9 in the ACC, and didn’t get in. Basically, a roughly equivalent team from a Power league was also sent to the NIT.

Now, I think there are specific teams from power leagues that seem to get the benefit of the doubt. UF lately. Texas. UNC. Some others. But on the whole I think the committee has become more inclusive, not less.

There are power conference teams that occasionally get shafted too. FSU in 2006 is a great example. 38th on KenPom, 9-7 in ACC, win over Number 1 Duke. Or 2007 FSU. 34th on KenPom, wins over eventual national champ UF, at Duke, and 4 seed Maryland, with half their losses coming when their starting PG had a broken hand.

The biggest difference in the raw mid-major numbers now compared to 15 years ago is there are just fewer mid majors.

Lipscomb also won games on the road in the NIT at Davidson, UNC Greensboro, and NC State. Were they fortunate enough to have all of those games in the regular season, they certainly would have been in the tournament.

And UNC Greensboro, now that I think of it, was another interesting case. They were 28-6 overall, 2-6 in Quad 1 games. Happened to lose to the same team three times in Wofford. Played LSU and Kentucky very close (at least 32 minutes or so against UK). They didn't have any bad losses and played competitive against power teams OOC. Feel bad for schools like Lipscomb and UNCG that play well, and just happen to lose to another elite mid-major in their own conference. Perhaps it's not a huge issue, but I think there's consistently a few mid-majors that are left out.

 

[GE Nole]

Lipscomb also won games on the road in the NIT at Davidson, UNC Greensboro, and NC State. Were they fortunate enough to have all of those games in the regular season, they certainly would have been in the tournament.

And UNC Greensboro, now that I think of it, was another interesting case. They were 28-6 overall, 2-6 in Quad 1 games. Happened to lose to the same team three times in Wofford. Played LSU and Kentucky very close (at least 32 minutes or so against UK). They didn't have any bad losses and played competitive against power teams OOC. Feel bad for schools like Lipscomb and UNCG that play well, and just happen to lose to another elite mid-major in their own conference. Perhaps it's not a huge issue, but I think there's consistently a few mid-majors that are left out.

It’s hard for me to give credit for what they did in the NIT. NIT is like lesser bowl games where many teams/guys just don’t care as much.

But yeah, like I said I’d have been okay if those teams made the dance. But I’m also okay that they didn’t.

 

[Scotty00]

Taking a poo before you go to bed helps you sleep better!