Nice pass by Luke to Mike for the winner. That was a great team, beat UNC and Duke twice during the season.
FSU is the luckiest team
- Thread starter bignish
- Start date
This is one of those stats the FSU AD comes up with, kinda like Ham is the third winningest coach in the ACC. But there are always outliers.
He’s got two more 1 possession game wins since then. 23-4. No one in the league is even remotely close.
He’s got two more 1 possession game wins since then. 23-4. No one in the league is even remotely close.
His "in-game coaching sucks"?
@hatsbo
What stats should one use to measure a coach's ability if it isn't W/L records or single possession stats?
Different year. That was 2012. He hit like 4 more in 2013 (which helped us barely finish over .500).
Not sure how it’s a cherry picked stat. It’s just the truth. This was from a national media outlet.
My guess is it’s not worth my time arguing with you (never seen you on this board). But there are countless examples of Ham making fantastic in game adjustments. Most recently the second half of the first VT game.
Given that Hamilton rarely has a roster full of top 100 recruits (only 3 this year), and given how successful we’ve been the last decade, it’s completely illogical to suggest he can’t develop players and make strong in game adjustments.
Well, he's been at FSU a long time so he's got a lot of wins. Other coaches that could have competed with him for third in wins were lured away for more lucrative jobs. His winning percent in the ACC is .517. His winning percent in the Big East was sub .500. It took SEVEN years for both his FSU and UM teams to sniff the Dance, much less get a win. Now, I know that late last season, as well as this season has seen his team achieve much and most FSU fans that have hung in there are energized. But let's not pretend his overall record at FSU has been remarkable. It hasn't.
We had season tix in Tally for 30 seasons before moving to VA. Ham has just hung around more or less while UF hoops blew us out of the water. I am excited for this team and have watched most games this season. I have always rooted for his program despite it's long dry spells. But I'm a pragmatist and a realist. Sixteen seasons at FSU, six tournament appearances, SIX.
The reality is, Hamilton produced NCAA Tournament quality teams in 2004, 2006, and 2007. None of them got in—that’s a fact. But the teams had the performance and quality of NCAAT teams. Unfortunately, the committee was much more reliant on the RPI back then, which has been proven to be a terrible system, so much so that they scrapped it. You have the NET back then and, even with its flaws, FSU is in at least two of those years.
On top of that, you can say “51% win percentage” in the ACC like that’s a bad thing. But given the resources FSU puts into hoops (or more like lack of resources) it’s actually a pretty big deal. FSU had a losing season in the ACC every year from 1994-2003. Hell, FSU had losing overall seasons more than half those years. Now, we haven’t had a losing overall season in 15 years and we finish .500 or above in the hardest league in the country most years. It’s just night and day different and it’s not just the last 18 months. You can pretend like it is if you want, but this is going on a decade strong.
You say your last sentence like it’s a bad thing. FSU only had six tourney appearances in the three decades prior to Hamilton. SIX.
This will now be 7 in the last 11 years. Think about that. 41% of ALL ncaa tournament appearances in school history have come under Ham. And he’s doing it in the hardest conference with very little resources compared to most of his conference peers.
Grow up, never said they were lucky. And if they lost would you have shown up here? Didn't think so. I think the quick turnaround in games benefited us because of depth. I will give Ham and coaches credit for assembling a team with ten deep that can play at this high a level.
Pretty much. Good thing it means very little in the grand scheme of things for us. Might cost us the East but we’re still a 1. We have 3 losses on the year, all to top 12 teams
I wonder if we realized the importance of us winning this game? We have most likely supplanted LSU as the number 3 seed in Jax which is big.
Means more to FSU. Up to a 3 seed now by beating #1. Win tomorrow and probably a 2 seed.
I’ll be sure to let Ham and Stan know you give them a little bit of credit for winning 27 games this year. Not too much. Just a little.
Glad Ham is getting a little attention as he begins his ride into the sunset, I hope he goes out with guns blazing.
Very happy for the team, huge confidence builder, best win on the biggest stage of the year.
Wow, imbecile, that hurts. I'm impressed with the three syllable word though, some of your best work.
@hatsbo check out this article, specifically point number 4, for a great example of Hamilton’s coaching adjustments. Shut Kyle Guy down in the second half by face guarding him and switching all screens.
https://www.tomahawknation.com/2019/3/16/18268640/recap-box-score-fsu-virginia-acc-tournament
https://www.tomahawknation.com/2019/3/16/18268640/recap-box-score-fsu-virginia-acc-tournament
I just want to beat duke tonight. Luck, skill, whatever. A trophy is on the line. A win is a win.
Your stupidity is not hard to recognize.
What's the title of the thread? FSU is the luckiest team
I didn't mention you in my post. And you respond telling ME to grow up?
"Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."
Man, the more I read this statement the more I just shake my head. I've seen some off-base comments about FSU, but wow this is laughably bad.
Gosh, fellow Noles, still trying to pick a fight I see. I'm sorry to have gotten on here when the Ham swooning was going full bore and dare say anything negative about the program. Not in good taste, perhaps. But alas, our LUCK did finally end tonight, with Cofer and Nichols playing we might have pulled it out. But turnovers, lousy rebounding and shooting did us in. When I talk of low basketball IQ, I am merely repeating a mantra that has been bandied about the FSU basketball community for years. Our turnovers are usually way above the national average. Asst/turnover ratio is not good this year, indicative of what? You will see most of the surviving teams in the top 25, FSU no where to be found.Turnovers also above the nat. average, indicative of what? Taking care of the ball and taking high percentage shots=High IQ. Not putting a leash on MJ Walker when he's trying to be the reincarnation of George MCloud= Low IQ.
Last edited:
You’re right, you’re repeating a narrative that is false. Just because people have been wrong, doesn’t mean you should repeat it. Mann, Forrest, Kabengele, Nichols, Vassell, Cofer—these are all high basketball IQ guys.
You seriously think you average 26 wins a year while playing in the ACC by having a bunch of street ball players and just rolling the ball out there? That’s some funny shit.
MJ Walker tries to do too much. That’s absolutely true. He needs to embrace a 3 and D role. But that’s one guy.
FSU was 6th in the ACC in turnovers this year. Better than Duke, better than Cuse, better than Louisville.
Year prior? FSU was 6th. Again better than Duke and Louisville. Better than NC State.
2017? FSU was 3rd in turnovers in ACC. Better than all teams but ND and Wake.
You can repeat a false narrative all you want, but that doesn’t make it true.
I
It's a narrative that is shared by a majority of FSU fans over the years, most simply aren't hoops fans anymore. They just tired of it and divested themselves from it. Gotta give it to you, you are good at your side of the argument, you'd be good over on Warchant, where the Hammite's best line is the third winningest coach credo, lol. But I stand by the asst/turnover ratio. Give Ham, or whoever of his merry men credit for lowering the turnovers somewhat. I attribute some of that to firing it up without impunity and the reduction of the shot clock, lol.
It's a narrative that's just wrong. Again, just because the majority of a fanbase that is football first, spring football second and largely ignorant when it comes to hoops, just because that fanbase believes something doesn't make it true.
It had some truth to it in 2009 and 2010, but we simply aren't that team anymore. Gone are the days of twin-post and force a combo guard to play PG. Hamilton, as all good coaches do, adjusted his system 6 or 7 years ago and has been slowly but surely recruiting to fill out his new system. Now we run a "positionless" R&R offense that relies on high ball screens, penetration, and either lobs to a rolling big or kick outs to a corner three. And if that sounds familiar to Golden State, it should. Luke Loucks is an assistant with Golden State and Gates and CY took a trip out there 4-ish years ago and spent some time with the staff. Obviously we aren't running it with Steph Curry and Klay Thompson, but the framework of the system is the same.
I used to post on Warchant for years. Left several years ago because Gene's an ass and most of the posters simply don't know hoops. You want good FSU hoops discussion? Go to Tomahawk Nation.
As for assist/turnover ratio, that's a worthless state from a bygone era. Assists measure style and shooting ability as much as the measure fundamental passing. What if Forrest gets into the lane and dishes to an open Kabengele who is hacked on the way up for a dunk? No assist but the result is great. What if we swing the ball around the horn with 4 guys touching it and it leads to a wide open corner three from MJ that rims out? No assist but the offensive execution was fantastic.
Then you have turnovers. Most turnovers are not passes that are directly stolen. You've got travels, charges, shot clock violations, moving screens, stepping out of bounds, dribbling off your leg, etc. None of those have much to do with assists, or even passing at all. So A:T ratio just doesn't have a lot of meaning. What does it really tell you? Here's a great article if you want to hear it from a different source.
What really matters at the end of the day is efficiency. How many points per possession are you scoring? What percentage of possessions are you turning the ball over? What percentage of possessions are you grabbing your own misses? And conversely, how many points per possession is your opponent scoring and what percentage of possessions are you forcing them to turn it over? Then, within that, how many of your turnovers and their turnovers are live ball turnovers? Those hurt you FAR worse than a dead ball one.
In 2010, FSU turned it over on 24.3% of their possessions. That. Is. Awful. That's the narrative you're talking about. Even worse, 11.7% of possessions ended in steals, which was bottom 3 in the ACC.
By 2014, the possessions ending in turnovers was down to 21.4--still bad but not catastrophe. And our percentage of possessions ending in steals was down to 9.7% in ACC play.
By 2017, possessions with turnovers was down to 16.4% overall and 15.7% in league play. Top 40 in the country. Percentage of possessions with steals was down 7.6% in ACC play, good for 4th best in the conference.
This year, our total turnover percentage bumped up a tad to 17.6% in conference play, largely due to MJ Walker being a charge and travel machine. But it's still in the top half of the league and a 28% reduction from 2010. Meanwhile, we only had 7.3% of our possessions end in steals, tops in the ACC and down 38% from 2010.
So if you, and the rest of the FSU fan base, wants to continue parroting a false narrative based on stats from a decade ago, go for it. I chose to live in the reality of present day and evaluate our play based on what's actually happening now.
Oh, and overall offensive efficiency in 2010 (adjusted for SOS)? 145th in the country. Overall offensive efficiency in 2019, again adjusted for SOS? 35th. 2018? 43rd. 2017? 31st. 2016? 47th. But yeah, I'm sure the old narrative holds up just fine...
Similar threads
