Cavs without Love tomorrow.
- Thread starter HRTheCard
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Looked better without Love? couldn't have been Boston was something like 7-39 from 3 with shots taken mostly by players Love would not have been covering.
Does this mean because they won 3 this year against the Cavs as opposed to 1 last year the Cs were better off without Kyrie?
Duh. Because Kyrie has shown he plays big especially offensively in crunch time. Love to me just doesn't envoke a lot of trust. Think about how many times he has been on the bench in late parts of playoff games last 2-3 years.
No because it was obvious thru out the season they were better with Kyrie. Also you don't have any sample size of the team without Kyrie prior to end of this season. C's need Krie for the 4th quarter and to create offense on his own. Plus the C's added more than just Kyrie and Hayward , they drafted Tatum and Brown continued to develop upwards. I don't think Kyrie makes them drastically better from a regular season standpoint as much as he does come playoff time.
And even "being on the bench" so much he still managed more points, rebounds, steals, blocks and shot better than Green.
If Love were a fake toughguy, collected techs and kicked people in the nads the narrative on him would be so different.
Draymond is just annoying. Same way Rodman was back in the 90's. Kevin Love is a finesse big guy at this point. Where he was more of a banger his first 5-6 years.
I don't think they are better without him, but the idea the Cavs are better off without a 20-10 guy who can make 3s is foolish. Because the other team couldn't shoot anything from anywhere?
He doesn't need to be a banger. Do you just not understand the best way to build around Lebron?
Before he teamed with Lebron I considered Love to possibly be the best player to team with him. He can rebound, play in the post and can step out and hit an open 3.
And that's bad? Because he's quiet and just goes about his business?
But in the playoffs he isn't a 20 and 10 guy and that is my point. Look at his playoff numbers in comparison to regular season.
Actually he isn't that good in the post anymore and all he does offensively now is shoot 3's. That is the problem. Look at his numbers in the playoffs.
16 and 11 in Finals last year. Certainly more than capable of going 20-10 any night....and can hit 3s. Those guys don't grow on trees.
He is asked to shoot 3s and keep the lane clear. Better to have a guy out there like Green who the other team would just look at and beg to shoot?
I can only find the full playoff numbers from last year and they were.... 13.9 PPG 10.0 RPG in 31.0 MPG Shooting 39% from the field and 35% from 3 last year in the playoffs. Outside of his 3 point percentage all of his playoff numbers are down the last 4 seasons compared to his regular season stats. That is a 60 game playoff sample size too. He isn't the Great White Hope you thought he would be. If he isn't hitting 3's he is essentially Tristan Thompson without defensive versatility.
Look at the games where the Rockets were successful against the Warriors last series. It was when they guarded and played defense. Back to back games of holding GSW to under 100 and the Rockets didn't break 100 points and still won. That is gonna be the recipe to upset GSW. Be physical , switch everything on defense and slow the game down. Jacking up long 3's will lead to run outs and the Cavs getting punished more often than not.
we won a title with him. said at the time of the Wiggins trade if we won a title, Wiggins could be the next MJ and the trade is a success as far as I was concerned.
80 points, 56 rebounds in Finals last year. comes to 16 and 11. Clearly outplayed Draymond.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/loveke01/gamelog/2017
He's done about what I expected. I figured his numbers, like Bosh, would come way down playing with 2 stars.
Bosh better defender , size , and player. This year he is the #2 not the #3 like last year with Kyrie. His great play also lead to a 4-1 series loss and a -35 for the series. Which if you take away game 4 when Cleveland and Love hit everything they threw up it was -53. You just aren't gonna convince me Kevin Love is what you claim he is in reality. 16 and 11 on generally inefficient shooting isn't winning me over. 26-67 from the field and 12-31 from 3. That is .388% for the series from your #3 guy who is now your #2 guy.
12-31 from 3 is good FTR.
But less points and rebounds from Green has you giddy? How does 19-55 from the field and 7-25 from 3 work for you? And he shoots 19-55 with the Cavs mostly begging him to shoot.
No mention of Love playing better than Lebron the first 2 games with -11 and -8 compared to -22 and -11?
I get you wont be convinced as you are like the many who don't like Love for whatever reason.
I don't think that's a crazy notion, but I think the narrative would be different for most with this opinion if Green was the guy who quietly went about his business and Love was kicking dudes in the pills and piling up techs.
Guessing you recall Love on Minnesota going for 20-15 or 26-13, right? Think Green could do something like that if he were the best player on a bad team?
Agree he's a great fir with Lebron, as he needs a big guy who can take his man away from the hoop and make an open 3.
Green doesn't have to score and that isn't his role. Any scoring you get from Green is Gravy.
Are you trying to argue that Love > Lebron in the finals last year?
Because Draymond isn't as good as Love. He is better at defense , passing , and not being soft compared to Love. But Love has the skills , rebounding , and scoring ability that is more important. Those first 2 Warrior teams Bogut and Iggy were as important as Green. Bogut especially , if the Warriors can find another big man to play the 5 next year. To give them what Bogut gave them they will be damn near impossible to beat.
Not at all to your last point. You were the one who brought up +/- Are you one of the many who only like the stat when it fits your narrative?
so you think Green being able to play a little D is better than Love being a better scorer and rebounder? And how much D was Green playing while the Cavs were going for 120+ per in Games 2-5?
You think guys who are soft can get 15 rebounds per game for an NBA season?
You'd prefer he be a fake toughguy with less talent?
Love's +/- is very important. Since he is now Lebron's Pippen for the next 10 days. I also said I though Love was the better player in a previous post.
Your hang up is..... That I said I think the better philosophy to beating the Warriors is muck the game up with your best defensive unit most of the game and let Lebron take 50% of the shots. The best defensive unit for the Cav's is without Love. Love is the #2 not the #4 guy like Green. He has to score at a highly efficient rate or he doesn't give you much else. His rebounding isn't enough when he is shooting 39% and playing par to bad defense.
I don’t think either are superstars and are in the same tier as players. I don’t really look too much at counting stats when determining who I think is better than who either. I think both are in perfect situations considering each players skill set benefits their respective teams a ton. And no I don’t see Green putting up big counting stat numbers on a bad team.
15 rebounds per game on a trash team that never won anything. So until he does it somewhere else where winning matters I am gonna reserve praise. I actually don't think Green is a fake tough guy. I know he is an agitator and usually knows how to push other guys buttons really well. I will even go far as saying he is kinda dirty. But that is his job , much like Rodman for the 96-98 Bulls or Laimbeer for the 89-90 Pistons.
Green yes. Love it's a good not great fit. Yes his shooting opens things up for Lebron. But it takes him away from the basket where his post skills and rebounding , which are his other 2 greatest strengths are lessened because all he does is stand outside and shoot 3's.
An agitator can be a fake toughguy.
How many guys have you seen get 15 rebounds per on trash teams the last decade? How about on any team?
I can do nothing but laugh when Internet Guy calls an NBA player soft.
True, but maybe you aren't aware the Cavs revolve more around Lebron and what helps him more than they do Love....and it kind of works. If not for injuries to Love and Kyrie in 2015 and an exploding cap after the 2016 season, very possible the Cavs are going for their 4th title in a row this year. alas, they are "only" playing for their 4th.
Definitely agree they will need more than 16 ppg from Love, though he was the #3 when he went for 16 ppg.
I think to win they will need closer to 18 and, yes, more efficient offense along with his usual rebounding.
If it were so much about defense, though, you would think they'd be better off with Hill instead of Kyrie. They're not.
He has played soft a lot in Cleveland. Sorry man! You want to say he has legit issues regarding mental health and it contributes I will listen. Drummond , Jordan , Wallace , Howard all come to mind of putting up big rebounding numbers in recent memory.
Then go get cheaper 3 point shooting bigs and use Love's salary to get guards that impact the game more.
4 in a decade. wow.
what makes him soft? He battles for rebounds. You thinking because he is a capable shooter and let's his play do the talking he's soft? If a guy who can play in the NBA and has a 15 rebound/game season is soft what would that make a keyboard warrior? 2-ply Charmin soft?
Sorry, man
why? They've been to 4 straight Finals, winning 1 already, and if not for the soft guy getting hurt, likely have 2.
I am sorry I am hurting your feelings about your K. Love. Kevin Love is one of those dudes that puts up some nice numbers that inflate how good he really is. He isn't a #2 , he is a #3 or even a #4 as he gets older on a title contending team. Now he can go play for Charlotte like Dwight Howard and put up numbers and win 35 games and look awesome again stat wise. Or he can show that he can step up and be Robin like he is being paid to be and actually do it. Instead of being the Butler.4 in a decade. wow.
what makes him soft? He battles for rebounds. You thinking because he is a capable shooter and let's his play do the talking he's soft? If a guy who can play in the NBA and has a 15 rebound/game season is soft what would that make a keyboard warrior? 2-ply Charmin soft?
Sorry, man
Haha. Kyrie was Robin and since we get to arbitrarily create hypothetical's to claim a title. Bogut doesn't get injured and Draymond suspended the "Land" has 0. Hell Lebron only has 1 title if not for Ray Allen and Kyrie being clutch.
Come on keep playing make believe.
what makes you think you are huring my feelings? You cannot come up with anything to support your claims other than pretty much he's soft because you say so?
The Cavs are in the Finals. Love is their #2. Did you really just make that comment? You also putting your name in the hat for POTY?
Did he knock you out in an alley or something? This angst toward him is not healthy.
Now move away from the deflection and explain why you think he's soft. Never mind you are a keyboard warrior calling him soft.
Comparing Bogut, who played 10-15 minutes/game to Love? And comparing super hard toughguy Green getting himself suspended to a guy who had his shoulder ripped out?
Never mind Green missed 1 game, Bogut missed 2, and Love missed all 6 and Kyrie missed 5.
Ray Allen making a late shot was why they won? Didn't get to that point without Lebron? Lebron's triple double and block of Iggy didn't help make Kyrie's shot possible?
You seem to really like K. Love. He plays soft , doesn't finish in the post well anymore. He looked like freaking Wes Unseld playing when he was 22 now he looks like and plays like Ryan Anderson.
He plays like Anderson because they need him to play outside with Lebron. Changed his body to do this. Guessing he cared more about winning and what the team wanted than what some internet warrior might think. I always thought you were irrational but still understood the game. Might be the former only if you don't understand this.
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