can someone explain how Ken Pom figures a team SOS

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by dragonhawk1855, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    Iowa's is 305 with them playing these
    SIUE 313
    ORU 172
    DePaul 65

    maybe someone who follows KP can explain it.
     
  2. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    correction that is the BPI rankings, Kenpom is to confusing just to follow.
     
  3. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    I wouldn’t put that task on my worst enemy
     
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  4. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    Pomeroy probably.
     
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  5. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    these SOS ratings are a joke. no way should any team that has played a top 75 team in the 1st 3 games be rated in the 300's.

    KP adj defense is just as confusing. that's why I asked if any one could decypher them for me,
     
  6. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    Honestly, you seem like a smart guy. I was hoping you'd give us your take on it all.
     
  7. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Why not? If your other two games are against sub-300 teams, then its possible. Right?
     
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  8. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    Iowa plays a shit schedule. Shocking.
     
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  9. KUhawks34

    KUhawks34 Well-Known Member
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    KenPom is more useful at the end of the season when it builds data
     
  10. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    not when it comes to KP ratings. way to complicated. they just need to simplify their break downs of each catagory
    Rankings. Offensive rating, Defensive rating, SOS not much else is needed
    for me Iowa has played 1 team in the 313, 1 team 172 and 1 team @ 65th and yet there SOS is 311th by the BPI.

    how can that be? that is why I asked. LIKE I said I don't understand KP rankings at all especially their adj defensive rating.
     
  11. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    I assume the SOS isn't in a vacuum. It is fluid and compared not only to the teams you have played but who they have played as well and relative to all the other schedules in the country. I'm sure where they have played is important as well. This early it isn't that accurate anyway though. It isn't some average though so just looking at the fact you played x, y, and z and trying to assign a number doesn't work.
     
    11 coryfly, Nov 17, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2019
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  12. CB3UK

    CB3UK Well-Known Member
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    JFC weve all played like 3 games...how about you wait until mid season where there's a decent body of work factored into his dataset.

    This is like getting pissed about your preseason AP ranking.
     
  13. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    gee all I asked was if someone could explain it to me,

    for all I know they might be using last seasons team to figure this out
    excuse the F*** OUT of me for asking about something I don't understand,
     
  14. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    JTFC man don’t poke the bear.
     
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  15. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    That is a horrendous schedule. I’d wager most teams have played at least one top 50 team by now.
     
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  16. CB3UK

    CB3UK Well-Known Member
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    I wanna see where this circus takes us Laughing
     
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  17. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    Just follow the B1G threads. It’s a deep dark winding road to crazy town.
     
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  18. hawkit3113

    hawkit3113 Well-Known Member
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    The OP is getting owned lol
     
  19. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    We don't know what the exact formula is because it's intellectual property. Suffice it to say Pomeroy uses a complicated algorithm, but the principles behind the formula are very understandable. It's points allowed per 100 possessions. He adjusts the points scored against according to the strength of the opponents. Obviously holding Delaware State to 50 points on 70 possessions isn't nearly as impressive if someone were to limit Michigan State to those same numbers . His formula is designed to adjust for that.

    The sample size is too small at this point to really gather any meaningful information. Give it another two months, I would say.
     
  20. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    not many outside of Duke, Kentucky, MSU as they ussually have a major TV deal in the OOC. the OOC early on is play the cupcakes early, to get thing worked out.

    in Iowa's case they have 3 new starters with the oldest being a JR. the schedule does ramp up in a couple weeks as they will play TT, then either Creighton or SDSU, then Syracuse, Michigan, Minnesota, ISU and Cincinnati,

    so they do play a very tough schedule in the next month.
     
  21. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    FSU and UF have already played each other. Ohio State and Cincy have played. Purdue has played Marquette and Texas. Seton Hall played Michigan State. Villanova played Ohio State. Tennessee and Washington played.

    I really can't think of too many teams that haven't played a top 60 team at least. Your schedule may ramp up, but so far it has been complete trash.
     
  22. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    DePaul is from the BE and can very easily make the top 50, the BE Gavitt Games is a really good match up, stop belittling a BE Team to make yourself feel superior.

    these are the teams you mention that also from the BE
    Marquette
    Seton Hall
    Villanova
    DePaul

    and DePaul is 5-0 on the season who plays Minnesota on Nov 29th, then TT on the 4th of Dec. NW on Dec 21st. before the begin conference play.

    nice try at bellyaching about the 1st 3 games.

    last season Iowa played 5 teams in the 300+ range this year they have played 1, 1 in the 150-180 range and 1 in the 50- 70 range, Iowa's next opponent is N Florida who is #175. TT is #13, Creighton #40 or USDS # 71, Syracuse #51, Michigan #25, Minnesota #81, ISU #50 and Cincinnati #23 so STFU about the 2 of the 1st 3 games.
     
  23. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    lol

     
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  24. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    this is not last years team as they have 3 transfers playing this year that they didn't last year. also I still won't watch nor care.
    the point still stands this is/was a game that was set up by the conferense head honcho's,

    just like these in the LV Invitational Fran had no control over UNF and Cal Poly, as the LV Committee selects all the teams for the Tourney. the only thing that Fran had any say was whether Iowa would play in or not.
     
  25. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    I’m not belittling any team. Your provided a statement about your team’s SOS and asked a question. You flat out stated that your best team was not top 75. All I did was answer your question.

    Don’t ask for an answer and then be mad at the answers you receive.
     
  26. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    actually DePaul is #65. so that does not explain where is he comming up with SOS @ 303 play 1 @65, 1 @ 172 and 1 @ 313 that does not compute in my best robot voice,
    what's he do put #'s on a board then throw darts?
     
  27. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Because it’s not a simple average. You don’t just take the average of those 3. It’s compared to every other team in the country. And all the other teams have played better schedules.
     
  28. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    all 312 teams have played better schedules? yeah right. you are clearly delusional.
     
  29. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    Why are you using KenPom's rankings to determine the strength of schedule for ESPN's BPI? That is your first problem.
     
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  30. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    @dragonhawk1855
    For the record, the calculation is actually fairly simple. There are really only two components:

    AdjO - Opponent’s average adjusted offensive efficiency (per 100 posssessions)
    AdjD - Opponent’s average adjusted defensive efficiency (per 100 possessions)

    [​IMG]

    The strength of schedule is the AdjEM, which is simply your opponent's average adj offense - opponent's average adj defense (per 100 possessions).

    So for Iowa, it's 95.8 - 101.7, which gives you -5.88 (numbers are underlined in the screenshot). That is #266 in the KenPom strength of schedule rankings. This number means that your opponents would be expected to lose to the average D-1 opponent by 5.88 points per 100 possessions.
     
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  31. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    Kentucky played Utah Valley last night and their overall D dropped on KenPom. You're so screwed @bkingUK
     
  32. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    thx's but its still confusing has hell. but its more along the lines of what I asked for.
    I like it simple W/O all the other mumbo jumbo. just put them in order from 1 thru 353, just like they are in how a team is ranked.

    nice simple and straight forward,
     
  33. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
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    Go to KenPom's website and look under the Strength of Schedule columns. Click on the AdjEm column (the one which has Iowa's number at -5.88) - this will automatically rank the SOS from 1-353. You should see Northern Arizona at the top with an AdjEm of +26.45. To the right of that 26.45 number is their SOS ranking of 1. Elon has the second ranked SOS.
     
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  34. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Exactly. They are in 1-353 order if you click on it.
     
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  35. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    thx's
     
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  36. dragonhawk1855

    dragonhawk1855 Well-Known Member
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    maybe they should wait till they have played 10 games each before posting these, it looks like 1 game can skew these rankings one way or another.

    that is why I talk about Iowa's games coming up to get a idea of just where they sit,.

    also it looks like they don't take into the tempo of teams into account on how that affects points scored,
    if you have a team that avg's in the 80's and 90's that = more shots for their opponent. or more simple opportunities to score themselves vs a team that scores in the 50's and 60's does not provide the same opportunities to score more points.
     
  37. GE Nole

    GE Nole Well-Known Member
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    Tempo is absolutely factored in. That’s why it’s based on per 100 possessions.

    Just don’t put too much emphasis on it before Mid December. Look at it as a teaser.
     

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