***2024 NCAA Tournament Thread***

[IUfanBorden]

Can you give us a correct interpretation of the 3 second rule? Is this a misunderstood rule at all? I mean, I hear some say once you catch the ball you're allowed to finish through the play, assuming you're driving towards the basket and not stalling. What you're describing sounds like a clear violation because he didn't leave the paint and he didn't finish the play, as he kicked it out.

I honestly don't know if I saw 3 seconds called a single time during this whole NCAA Tournament. Not that I've watched every minute of every game, but it seems like refs in the tournament are a bit liberal with their application of the 3 second rule.

Yes....

Say the count is at 2.....you catch a pass----count is suspended. You are allowed to make an offensive move to score. If you pass the ball out, the count is picked up-----and should be a 3-second violation.

Also, the three second lane does not go vertically. Meaning----If you have one foot out, one foot in, and lift the foot that is in(lane), the three second count is reset.

Three seconds is a lost call, tbh. If ever enforced, it would drastically clean the game up.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Most people (not suggesting Borden is) are confused because the NCAA is the only level that allows for a player to have one foot out and lift the other foot and the clock resets. The clock is also suspended when a player dribbles or starts the process of trying for a field goal.

I'm sure Edey breaks the rule on occasion. But it's nowhere near as often as some people suggest because they don't understand the rule. And as you say, that's the one rule in college basketball that is called the least. Hell, I don't know how you can expect 3 officials to watch 10 guys for other violations while also having one trying to count to 3 and knowing when to reset the count.

No confusion here---I understand the NCAA rule quite well.

One foot in---one foot out---left the foot that is in the lane, count resets. I even said this before---Edey is usually legal in this aspect. A few times vs TENN, he was not. He would catch the ball---pass it it out, repost, all with never leaving the paint.

Also note that 3 second count ends on a shot try.

It does not end on an interrupted dribble, or a loose ball.

 

[boilerzz]

No confusion here---I understand the NCAA rule quite well.

That's what I was saying

 

[IUfanBorden]

That's what I was saying

My bad....Been a long feew days.

Wife surgery....Had two baseball games Thur and Fri....Three on Sat. One tonight.

I am tired

 

[dukedevilz]

The clock does reset if he exits the lane. This is done by either completely leaving the lane or with one foot and he lifts the other. Painter went into this early last year and confirmed this to be the rule with the NCAA. Not every specific circumstance is spelled out in the rule book as it would be too voluminous to be effective. There are also case books that the NCAA provides to officials when something is ambiguous and needs clarity.

It is suspended if he starts his dribble and moves to shoot. If he passes back out and doesn't immediately leave the lane, it's a likely violation.

Correct. If he is making a move towards the basket and is in the lane past the 3 seconds, then passes out. It's a violation. I've seen that called on him a few times.

Also, keeping one foot out alone doesn't reset it, but simply picking the other foot up and setting it back down will.

Interesting! I had no idea about lifting one foot in the air, if the other foot is outside the paint, actually resets the count.

I've never cared/thought too much about it. I find middle-age men screaming "3 seconds!" at local games is more annoying than a big in the paint for 4-5 seconds. If anything, it's nice that it isn't overly enforced because basketball needs to find ways to not be so hyper-focused on the 3-point shot.

I was more observant of it yesterday simply because of all the Tennessee fans on Twitter complaining about Edey in the paint. I did think this picture posted by a Vols fan was pretty funny, though.

 

[dukedevilz]

Yes....

Say the count is at 2.....you catch a pass----count is suspended. You are allowed to make an offensive move to score. If you pass the ball out, the count is picked up-----and should be a 3-second violation.

Also, the three second lane does not go vertically. Meaning----If you have one foot out, one foot in, and lift the foot that is in(lane), the three second count is reset.

Three seconds is a lost call, tbh. If ever enforced, it would drastically clean the game up.

Fantastic! Thanks for the information.

Maybe I need to actually read the rule book. Can you think of an interesting obscure rule that most basketball fans are unaware of - or a rule that is mostly misunderstood?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Does anyone else feel like Flipohowski and the rest of the crew are returning? They didn't have a single transfer last season.

Platooon? Only one ball etc. Flip and Cooper will be fun to watch.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Curiosity struck, so I looked into the rule book. It's on page 91 of the 2023-24 NCAA Men's Basketball Rules

@Boilermaker03 @boilerzz @IUfanBorden

I don't see anything here about the clock resetting. It does mention the count is suspended (not reset) if the player is actively trying to score a field goal. If 3 seconds has elapsed, and he's in the paint and passes to a teammate, then that would be a clear violation. Keeping one foot out doesn't appear to reset the count. Any part of the body in the paint keeps the count going.

Let me know if I'm overlooking something, though.

You are cheating! 🤣 Dealing with facts is not what some people do.

Plus the facts are that refs don't call the three second rule the way that they are supposed to.

 

[boilerzz]

You are cheating! 🤣 Dealing with facts is not what some people do.

Plus the facts are that refs don't call the three second rule the way that they are supposed to.

I'm legit not sure they have the capacity to do so. Those 10 guys on the floor they are trying to police are significantly larger, stronger and faster than they were 30-40 years ago and we are asking our refs to catch everything that we see on our 4K TV's with the power of instant replay and slo-mo.

We either need to accept that officiating is an imperfect function that gets things right the vast majority of the time but still regularly misses things (hopefully evenly for both teams) or we need to come up with a better solution. I don't know if that solution is another ref on the court, one in a room watching replays like they do in football or some other technology (I still don't understand why we have home plate umps call balls and strikes when a better solution is available).

 

[Blueheart32]

Does anyone else feel like Flipohowski and the rest of the crew are returning? They didn't have a single transfer last season.

Platooon? Only one ball etc. Flip and Cooper will be fun to watch.

I think Flip and Roach are 100% gone, get either Foster or Proctor back but not both. McCain likely gone. Expect some transfers too. Maybe Mitchell, Reeves, and either Schutt or Power

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

I'm legit not sure they have the capacity to do so. Those 10 guys on the floor they are trying to police are significantly larger, stronger and faster than they were 30-40 years ago and we are asking our refs to catch everything that we see on our 4K TV's with the power of instant replay and slo-mo.

We either need to accept that officiating is an imperfect function that gets things right the vast majority of the time but still regularly misses things (hopefully evenly for both teams) or we need to come up with a better solution. I don't know if that solution is another ref on the court, one in a room watching replays like they do in football or some other technology (I still don't understand why we have home plate umps call balls and strikes when a better solution is available).

Lessen the rules.

Get rid of the three second zone, if it is not going to be called.
Get rid of the eye brow, it just add complexity to the art of calling the game.
Call charges. It is either a block or a charge.
Call blocks. It is either a charge or a block.
Get rid of the 10 second mid court rule. You have the whole clock to shoot.
Get rid of 5 second to inbound a ball. Use the complete shot clock before there is a turn over.
If you hit someone in the head it is a flagrant 1.
If you flop without contact it is a flagrant 1.

Keep it simple, stupid.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Can one of you come scrape your @Boilermaker03 off of the bathroom floor on the IU home site? He is laying in a puddle of his own vomit.

Jesus Christ, this clown has lived there posting ridiculous bitter bullshit yesterday and all day today.

I don't know if IU will get to another FF in my lifetime...but if they do I assure you I won't go bleat and vomit all over the Purdue home board.

Jesus you're a crybaby. First of all, you lie about me and what I'm saying there. Second, you're soft as **** if you can't handle me having civil conversations there.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Jesus you're a crybaby. First of all, you lie about me and what I'm saying there. Second, you're soft as **** if you can't handle me having civil conversations there.

For someone that trashes IU and IU fans you sure care one hell of a lot about what we think. It is fun watching you and the other 75 not-yet-banned PUkies begging for our respect.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Jesus, he is still over there arguing with anyone that will give him the time.

And getting boat reaced.

 

[mcnicKY91]

All I know is I couldn't care less if Edey stands in the lane for 30 seconds and it goes uncalled...as long as Purdue finds a way to knockout UConn and win the whole thing, I am good!

 

[boiler1987]

All I know is I couldn't care less if Edey stands in the lane for 30 seconds and it goes uncalled...as long as Purdue finds a way to knockout UConn and win the whole thing, I am good!

 

[IUfanBorden]

Fantastic! Thanks for the information.

Maybe I need to actually read the rule book. Can you think of an interesting obscure rule that most basketball fans are unaware of - or a rule that is mostly misunderstood?

A couple....

Back court violation/no violation is the biggest----especially in HS. And college as well.

1. There is NO frontcourt or backcourt status on a throw in. I cannot tell ya how many times I've heard--"That's over and back..."--when team throws ball in, they bobbled the pass, it goes into other teams b/c. That is not a violation. Must GAIN possession.
--Team A has the ball, it gets knocked away...in the scramble the ball goes off of Team A, and into the b/c. Team A recovers the ball----That is a back court violation. Team A still has TEAM control...and since they were the last to touch, then the first to touch, its a violation. And yes I know the question about to be asked:

"SO Borden, you saying the defense can grab the ball, throw it off of the offense, and now the offense cannot get the ball"?---No. Once the defense gains possession, team control has changed.

--everything must pass over: Ball, and BOTH feet must crossover. IF Player A dribbles the ball across the line, BUT both feet are stil behind the 10 second line, and then he dribbles back into backcourt---No violation. IF he is straddling the line---one foot over, one foot not, and brings his foot back into the b/c---No violation. EVERYTHNG must go over.

2---Player leaving the floor voluntarily, then being the first to receive a pass: Cant do that. If you go OOB purposely, and are the FIRST person to receive a pass...this is a violation. It is rarely called.

3- Cant move on a spot throw---FALSE. You absolutely can. You three feet to your left and right...PLus, you can go backwards for as far as you want.

4- SHot at the buzzer. If it hits the floor AFTER the buzzer has sounded---it is no good. SHot ended once the ball hits the floor. Say you throw a 90-foot heave at the horn---it hits 10 feet in front of gaol, bounces, and goes in. If the buzzer has already sounded, shot is no good.

5- Say team accidently only sends 4 guys onto the floor. Coach realizes rthis after a few seconds, and sends a guy onto the floor, during live ball play---100% legal---UNLESS you the deem the action as the offense, or the defense doing so to gain an advantage. In this case, its a technical foul.

 

[boilerzz]

There is NO frontcourt or backcourt status on a throw in. I cannot tell ya how many times I've heard--"That's over and back..."--when team throws ball in, they bobbled the pass, it goes into other teams b/c. That is not a violation. Must GAIN possession.
--Team A has the ball, it gets knocked away...in the scramble the ball goes off of Team A, and into the b/c. Team A recovers the ball----That is a back court violation. Team A still has TEAM control...and since they were the last to touch, then the first to touch, its a violation. And yes I know the question about to be asked:

Kevin Keats and the announcers were losing their minds in OT against Oakland because they didn’t understand this.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Kevin Keats and the announcers were losing their minds in OT against Oakland because they didn’t understand this.

I just chukle….Or yell---"Learn the goad damn rule."---If you are going to announce CBB games, know the rules.

 

[boiler1987]

I just chukle….Or yell---"Learn the goad damn rule."---If you are going to announce CBB games, know the rules.

Curious how many college HC’s do you think know the rule books in and out?

 

[IUfanBorden]

Curious how many college HC’s do you think know the rule books in and out?

A lot. I'd say 95% plus. It was one of THE things harped on us at camps, as beginning officials---"You had bettr know the rules, because those guys, at that level, most certainly do..." Through experience I cant recall any coaches not knowing something this simple.

I've had coaches QUOTE a rule, word for word....Or have them say, "well Rule 6, Section 3, says...."---Epsecially in baseball.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Refs are the worst. They remind me of the Stanford Prison Experiment.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

A lot. I'd say 95% plus. It was one of THE things harped on us at camps, as beginning officials---"You had bettr know the rules, because those guys, at that level, most certainly do..." Through experience I cant recall any coaches not knowing something this simple.

I've had coaches QUOTE a rule, word for word....Or have them say, "well Rule 6, Section 3, says...."---Epsecially in baseball.

Have you ever called a game leaning to one side? Player, fans or coach pissed you off?

Do you think some do? It's human nature.

I've read some about how Shows and some others really don't like certain teams and coach. They've admitted it.

That's why they're not chosen to ref the Final Four. Too many mistakes the moment and emotions overwhelm them.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Jesus you're a crybaby. First of all, you lie about me and what I'm saying there. Second, you're soft as **** if you can't handle me having civil conversations there.

Did you create a second burner account just to follow and "like" my posts? 25 or so pu fans have done that on the home board so it is nothing original This you @Zero Credibility?

LOL Rent Free baby

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Have you ever called a game leaning to one side? Player, fans or coach pissed you off?

Do you think some do? It's human nature.

I've read some about how Shows and some others really don't like certain teams and coach. They've admitted it.

That's why they're not chosen to ref the Final Four. Too many mistakes the moment and emotions overwhelm them.

If you saw TV Ted and Knight go at it you saw this very thing.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Interesting! I had no idea about lifting one foot in the air, if the other foot is outside the paint, actually resets the count.

I've never cared/thought too much about it. I find middle-age men screaming "3 seconds!" at local games is more annoying than a big in the paint for 4-5 seconds. If anything, it's nice that it isn't overly enforced because basketball needs to find ways to not be so hyper-focused on the 3-point shot.

I was more observant of it yesterday simply because of all the Tennessee fans on Twitter complaining about Edey in the paint. I did think this picture posted by a Vols fan was pretty funny, though.

Hadn't seen this. Funny

 

[dukedevilz]

A couple....

Back court violation/no violation is the biggest----especially in HS. And college as well.

1. There is NO frontcourt or backcourt status on a throw in. I cannot tell ya how many times I've heard--"That's over and back..."--when team throws ball in, they bobbled the pass, it goes into other teams b/c. That is not a violation. Must GAIN possession.
--Team A has the ball, it gets knocked away...in the scramble the ball goes off of Team A, and into the b/c. Team A recovers the ball----That is a back court violation. Team A still has TEAM control...and since they were the last to touch, then the first to touch, its a violation. And yes I know the question about to be asked:

"SO Borden, you saying the defense can grab the ball, throw it off of the offense, and now the offense cannot get the ball"?---No. Once the defense gains possession, team control has changed.

--everything must pass over: Ball, and BOTH feet must crossover. IF Player A dribbles the ball across the line, BUT both feet are stil behind the 10 second line, and then he dribbles back into backcourt---No violation. IF he is straddling the line---one foot over, one foot not, and brings his foot back into the b/c---No violation. EVERYTHNG must go over.

Fantastic! I was actually aware of the backcourt rule having to be the ball and both feet (that's one rule I've actually looked up before). Announcers get this wrong all the time! And I feel like refs sometimes are a little trigger happy on those backcourt calls, too.

2---Player leaving the floor voluntarily, then being the first to receive a pass: Cant do that. If you go OOB purposely, and are the FIRST person to receive a pass...this is a violation. It is rarely called.

3- Cant move on a spot throw---FALSE. You absolutely can. You three feet to your left and right...PLus, you can go backwards for as far as you want.

4- SHot at the buzzer. If it hits the floor AFTER the buzzer has sounded---it is no good. SHot ended once the ball hits the floor. Say you throw a 90-foot heave at the horn---it hits 10 feet in front of gaol, bounces, and goes in. If the buzzer has already sounded, shot is no good.

5- Say team accidently only sends 4 guys onto the floor. Coach realizes rthis after a few seconds, and sends a guy onto the floor, during live ball play---100% legal---UNLESS you the deem the action as the offense, or the defense doing so to gain an advantage. In this case, its a technical foul.

Didn't know about 3, 4, or 5. Though, I can't recall any instances off the top of my head where that has occurred with 4 or 5. Great info! I appreciate the breakdown.

 

[I am stupid]

My experience is "over the back" is most misunderstood. Go to any game and you hear it constantly screamed. 7'2" guy grabs the rebound over a 6'2" player and people yell over the back....

I think Borden said before how it isnt even in the rules, it's just a pushing foul. Even though some refs use the phrase.

 

[boilerzz]

My experience is "over the back" is most misunderstood. Go to any game and you hear it constantly screamed. 7'2" guy grabs the rebound over a 6'2" player and people yell over the back....

I think Borden said before how it isnt even in the rules, it's just a pushing foul. Even though some refs use the phrase.

Yep. Nowhere in the rule book does it say over the back is a violation. Don't know how many times I've heard that one in Edey's career.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Yep. Nowhere in the rule book does it say over the back is a violation. Don't know how many times I've heard that one in Edey's career.

It's not a violation, even though I see it called sometimes even when there is no contact.😂 But yeah, the folks always crying "over the back" are funny.

 

[IUfanBorden]

It's not a violation, even though I see it called sometimes even when there is no contact.😂 But yeah, the folks always crying "over the back" are funny.

Tell ya what gets ya ass....Guy doesn't block out, kid comes in, makes an athletic play, goes over top the dude---some contact, maybe a lot----and they call a foul. I hate that. Dude made no attempt to block out, or some cases, go after the ball, UNTIL other player has left his feet. To me that is punishing a good athletic play, with some hustle.

Had that happen in a HS game this year---4A game(largest class). Coach goes yonkers on me---"That's over the back...."-----Naaaah. Told him exactly this----"Your kid just stood there, made no attempt to block out, and he just weny over the top of him..." This is big boy basketball coach---if ya want that called---go coach 1A.

 

[boilerzz]

Expect a heavy Purdue crowd on Saturday. A lot of pent up anticipation.

 

[boiler1987]

Expect a heavy Purdue crowd on Saturday. A lot of pent up anticipation.

View embedded media

That’s awesome!

 

[boilerzz]

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I already miss games being on.

Not in the mood to vape or blow the guy laying next to me.

 

[FaithPlusOne]

View embedded media

2 of the last 3 years Duke has ended its season with a loss to the others. In both instances they were favored.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Lessen the rules.

Get rid of the three second zone, if it is not going to be called.

No, I don't think this would be good to get rid of.

Get rid of the eye brow, it just add complexity to the art of calling the game.

What's the eye brow?

Call charges. It is either a block or a charge.
Call blocks. It is either a charge or a block.

Agreed on both.

Get rid of the 10 second mid court rule. You have the whole clock to shoot.
Get rid of 5 second to inbound a ball. Use the complete shot clock before there is a turn over.

I think it would be ridiculous to get rid of both of these. You're taking away a major aspect of defense by doing this.

If you hit someone in the head it is a flagrant 1.
If you flop without contact it is a flagrant 1.

I think it would be great to start punishing floppers. You might get some that are called that aren't flops though.

 

[Boilermaker03]

For someone that trashes IU and IU fans you sure care one hell of a lot about what we think. It is fun watching you and the other 75 not-yet-banned PUkies begging for our respect.

I don't trash IU fans, I trash YOU. You're a triggered little crybaby that can't handle different opinions. You also don't understand intellectual curiosity. People that want to actually learn something seek out different points of view and have discussions over it.

You can continue to say crap like "begging for respect" or whatever you think will shame me, but it won't because it's not factual. Deal with it and grow up.

 

[Boilermaker03]

Did you create a second burner account just to follow and "like" my posts? 25 or so pu fans have done that on the home board so it is nothing original This you @Zero Credibility?

LOL Rent Free baby

Nope because I'm nothing like what you keep trying to push about me. I'm sure you're gaining favor with people here though with you incessant crying.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I don't trash IU fans, I trash YOU. You're a triggered little crybaby that can't handle different opinions. You also don't understand intellectual curiosity. People that want to actually learn something seek out different points of view and have discussions over it.

You can continue to say crap like "begging for respect" or whatever you think will shame me, but it won't because it's not factual. Deal with it and grow up.

Adorable.