Your thoughts on the present and future of our sport

[dukedevilz]

You make great points, but one thing I have noticed is teams that were in the running for the playoff and didn't make it, usually played like dog sh!t in their bowl games.

I just don't think you can put too much stock in what a team does in a meaningless bowl game after they just missed out on a shot at a title.

Nah. We're talking about BCS/New Year Six Bowl Games. These are not meaningless games.

In 2008, Alabama played Utah in the Sugar Bowl. Bama was the #1 team for the last 4 weeks of the regular season - and they hadn't played in a BCS bowl game since 1999. Had this been the juggernaut that Saban had built up for over a decade, then I could see that game not meaning as much (the 2013 Sugar Bowl against Oklahoma might be a better example). None of these Bama players had been in a bowl game of that magnitude before.

In 2009, Boise State beat the Pac 10 Champs, Oregon in the regular season. And then they took down the #4 team, previously unbeaten TCU, in the Fiesta Bowl. That game meant A LOT to both sides.

In 2010, TCU took down the #4 team, Wisconsin, in the Rose Bowl. I've never heard anyone say the Rose Bowl was a meaningless game. The Rose Bowl, after all, is commonly referenced as the "The Granddaddy of Them All."

The 2017 game between Auburn and UCF I suppose you could make an argument. Auburn had beaten both Georgia and Alabama (the two teams in the title game), so playing in the Peach Bowl was probably a bit of a let down. However, Auburn hadn't been in a BCS/New Year's Six bowl game since the 2013 season. And since the BCS era began in 1998, Auburn had only played in a combined 4 BCS/New Year Six bowl games. It would be disgraceful if Auburn, a program that isn't annually in the top 5/10 like their rivals, didn't put in a full effort for a NY6 bowl game.

 

[GE Nole]

What newer aspects of the game bother you?

How defenders get targeting calls just for trying to make a bang/bang tackle and the offensive player ducks their head initiating the contact.

The fact that targeting gets you ejected in the first place. We already had a rule to handle that, unnecessary roughness.

The very definition of “targeting.” By definition, targeting should be when a defender launches themselves and intentionally targets an opponents head. Something like what Vontez Burfict used to do. Making inadvertent helmet to helmet contact shouldn’t be targeting.

The fact that every single play is up for review. We don’t need to review whether it’s 2nd and 12 or 2nd and 11.5. Stop killing the flow of the game. Every coach should get two challenges per game (red flag style) and scoring plays should be automatically reviewable. That’s it.

The fact that you can’t hit “defenseless” players on punt returns, interception returns, or receivers going across the middle.

The fact the OL are allowed to go 3 yards down field on RPOs and even that isn’t enforced consistently. Needs to be 2 yards at most (really, 1.5 would be better like the NFL) and it needs to be strictly enforced.

How inconsistent defensive pass interference is called, especially within 7 yards of the line.

 

[GE Nole]

Charge/block call gets me the most. There's nothing worse than a play coming down to a wire and a inconsistent judgement call decides the game.

I like they're constantly trying to evolve each offseason, but that call has to be made easier.

My solution is simple. No more charges inside the three point line. It’s either a block or a no call. We don’t need to incentivize guys being on the ground in areas where people are jumping and landing. It’s dangerous to the guy on the ground and it’s dangerous to the guys in the air.

 

[dukedevilz]

You make great points, but one thing I have noticed is teams that were in the running for the playoff and didn't make it, usually played like dog sh!t in their bowl games.

Was curious if this was true, and I'm just not seeing it. Here are the teams that finished 5th and 6th in the CFB Playoff era. If you take out the 2015 teams (Iowa/Stanford canceled each other out), the combined record is 8-4. And the four losses were by a combined 12 points. Those games are all against top 10/15 teams, so I wouldn't expect them to dominate. But, none of these teams completely flopped.

2014
#5 Baylor lost to #8 Michigan State 42-41
#6 TCU beat #9 Ole Miss 42-3

2015
#5 Iowa lost to Stanford 45-16
#6 Stanford beat Iowa 45-16

2016
#5 Penn State lost to #9 USC 52-49
#6 Michigan lost to #11 Florida State 33-32

2017
#5 Ohio State beat #8 USC 24-7
#6 Wisconsin beat #10 Miami 34-24

2018
#5 Georgia lost to #15 Texas 28-21
#6 Ohio State beat #9 Washington 28-23

2019
#5 Georgia beat #7 Baylor 26-14
#6 Oregon beat #8 Wisconsin 28-27

2020
#5 Texas A&M beat #13 North Carolina 41-27
#6 Oklahoma beat #7 Florida 55-20


Combined Bowl Record of #5 & #6 teams (canceling out the 2015/16 Rose Bowl): 8-4

4 Losses
'14 Baylor lost by 1 point
'16 Penn State lost to USC by 3 points
'16 Michigan lost to FSU by 1 point
'18 Georgia lost to Texas by 7 points

 

[829305]

Used to love it. Now, I don’t tune into anything other than Carolina until the Super Bowl. It’s totally lost it’s luster for me. But, so have the Heels of late. 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[dukedevilz]

How defenders get targeting calls just for trying to make a bang/bang tackle and the offensive player ducks their head initiating the contact.

The fact that targeting gets you ejected in the first place. We already had a rule to handle that, unnecessary roughness.

The very definition of “targeting.” By definition, targeting should be when a defender launches themselves and intentionally targets an opponents head. Something like what Vontez Burfict used to do. Making inadvertent helmet to helmet contact shouldn’t be targeting.

The fact that every single play is up for review. We don’t need to review whether it’s 2nd and 12 or 2nd and 11.5. Stop killing the flow of the game. Every coach should get two challenges per game (red flag style) and scoring plays should be automatically reviewable. That’s it.

The fact that you can’t hit “defenseless” players on punt returns, interception returns, or receivers going across the middle.

The fact the OL are allowed to go 3 yards down field on RPOs and even that isn’t enforced consistently. Needs to be 2 yards at most (really, 1.5 would be better like the NFL) and it needs to be strictly enforced.

How inconsistent defensive pass interference is called, especially within 7 yards of the line.

All good points. Targeting is the first thing I thought of. Almost seems impossible to avoid it in certain situations. They say it's to protect players. I wonder if there's actually any correlation between the implementation of this rule and fewer injuries on the field. I'm doubtful the numbers would show us any significant correlation.

And yes, I could see the constant reviews as being aggravating. Fortunately for me, I rarely watch any games live. That's an instant fast-forward click.

Anything with refs, of course, is going to have a high degree of subjectivity. Certainly don't see that consistency in basketball either. Pass Interference has always been one of the worst offenders. It is interesting to consider the idea that more rules should inevitably leads to a lot more regulation from the refs - more stoppages, more penalties, more reviews. I wonder if they're sometimes told to not enforce every possible infraction as that would just be a bad product for the game/fans (i.e. you could call holding on almost every single play). If you're selective about what you enforce, the game might be better than say a highly regulated game (i.e. Gonzaga-UNC 2017 title game), but it's still going to be hard for those who know the rules and are highly confused and annoyed by the lack of consistency. That's kind of the state CFB is in right now.

For me, I get frustrated with college football mainly because there are way too many blowouts. You see it all the time, even with a showdown between two top 10 teams. The last 3 championship games have been blowouts. Felt like games 15-25 years ago had me on the edge of my seat a little more.

 

[della]

I know we are all supposed to be killing each other in the political thread, but I had this crazy idea we could discuss some hoops in the summer.

Odds are if you are posting on this board, you are either a diehard fan of your schools basketball team, or the sport of college basketball in general. Up until the last few years, I made it a point to watch every Kentucky game I was able to. I followed recruiting harder than an adult man should. And I have spent hours reading articles and opinions about players and teams. This has definitely changed over the years.

At this point, college basketball feels like a mess to me. It's become almost impossible to follow recruiting and transfers (unless you're @dukedevilz), you are starting to see some of the games best prospects go elsewhere before the pros, and that includes staying in the United States at this point. Some of the sports pioneers and greats are now hanging it up and retiring.

I'm sure I will get at least one "You're just saying this because Kentucky sucks," and that's fine. I have felt like this longer than one season. Is there logic in feeling college basketball is headed down a bad path, or just like everything else in life, its changing and I just have to deal with it. Maybe no one else feels the same way I do. I understand rules have changed things in the past, it just feels different now.

College sports have been corrupted by big money. Schools have taken in large hauls of cash in the name of "amateur" athletics. Kids that have no business at a University are highly coveted and in some cases go to the Pros after a year. It is a farce.
Basketball has always been a team sport. That is changing, it is turning into an individuals sport that happens to play on teams. Players being paid for their likeness will be the final peeling of the onion.

The purity of the game will be forever lost unless they shun the money and return to an Ivy league type system.

 

[GE Nole]

How defenders get targeting calls just for trying to make a bang/bang tackle and the offensive player ducks their head initiating the contact.

The fact that targeting gets you ejected in the first place. We already had a rule to handle that, unnecessary roughness.

The very definition of “targeting.” By definition, targeting should be when a defender launches themselves and intentionally targets an opponents head. Something like what Vontez Burfict used to do. Making inadvertent helmet to helmet contact shouldn’t be targeting.

The fact that every single play is up for review. We don’t need to review whether it’s 2nd and 12 or 2nd and 11.5. Stop killing the flow of the game. Every coach should get two challenges per game (red flag style) and scoring plays should be automatically reviewable. That’s it.

The fact that you can’t hit “defenseless” players on punt returns, interception returns, or receivers going across the middle.

The fact the OL are allowed to go 3 yards down field on RPOs and even that isn’t enforced consistently. Needs to be 2 yards at most (really, 1.5 would be better like the NFL) and it needs to be strictly enforced.

How inconsistent defensive pass interference is called, especially within 7 yards of the line.

Oh and one more I forgot, but really hurts the game.

When a team gets going with a little bit of tempo and momentum and the other team all the sudden has a lineman fall down “hurt.” The game stops for 2-3 minutes, that guy hobbles off, and then he’s magically back in 3 plays later. It’s pathetic.

The NCAA is the one so concerned about player safety right? Huge deal? Well then if a guy goes down hurt we probably need to be more cautious I guess. So if I player is so hurt that it forces a stoppage of play, he shouldn’t be allowed to return to the game until one of the following things takes place:

1. There is a change of possession.
2. The team with the hurt player spends a timeout.
3. He goes back to the locker room and passes a full battery of medical tests, away from the noise, confusion, and activity on the field.

If none of those things happen and he returns, it’s a 15 yard penalty and automatic first down.

 

[CB3UK]

My excitement has definitely declined over several seasons. Never thought I'd see the day that I'd just outright skip games but it got to that point the past few seasons.

I think the transfer rule is really going to help things. Yes, I want to see guys develop over 4 yrs at the same school. But, the primary impetus about that is really seeing the growth and experience lead to success. If a guy has that stuff from elsewhere and then can come in and help out immediately then I'm all for it. How is that different than one and done? Well, I don't have a good answer to that. 😂

 

[Villian07]

Mehh im not sold on the transfer rule. Im not sure every team adding 5-6 new pieces every year will lead to better basketball. Grad transfers i get bc you reward a kid for graduating, but just any transfer idk if a kid should be able to transfer without sitting bc he didnt like his PT or coach yelled at him or whatever.

I really just think its gonna kill the mis majors, i mean look at how many are losing their best player this year. GT were hard enough on them, but at least they had those guys 3-4 years.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Call me old fashioned if you choose. I do miss the days of players staying 3/4 years, watching develop and grow. I miss guys playing for the name on the front of the jersey, not the name on the back. College basketball has become a shitty product. Politics has infiltrated into it, and that spells doom. All of last year only 4/5 teams actually looked like TEAMS, the rest more like street ball. I could have seen better playing at the high school level. Now with all the cheating that has taken place, proven, nobody has been penalized. So now it’s not a level playing field. The sport is dying a slow death.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Last year was tough, but I guess I'm just a hapless romantic.