Your thoughts on the present and future of our sport

[JimboBBN]

I know we are all supposed to be killing each other in the political thread, but I had this crazy idea we could discuss some hoops in the summer.

Odds are if you are posting on this board, you are either a diehard fan of your schools basketball team, or the sport of college basketball in general. Up until the last few years, I made it a point to watch every Kentucky game I was able to. I followed recruiting harder than an adult man should. And I have spent hours reading articles and opinions about players and teams. This has definitely changed over the years.

At this point, college basketball feels like a mess to me. It's become almost impossible to follow recruiting and transfers (unless you're @dukedevilz), you are starting to see some of the games best prospects go elsewhere before the pros, and that includes staying in the United States at this point. Some of the sports pioneers and greats are now hanging it up and retiring.

I'm sure I will get at least one "You're just saying this because Kentucky sucks," and that's fine. I have felt like this longer than one season. Is there logic in feeling college basketball is headed down a bad path, or just like everything else in life, its changing and I just have to deal with it. Maybe no one else feels the same way I do. I understand rules have changed things in the past, it just feels different now.

 

[jhmossy]

You’re just saying this because Kentucky sucks

 

[WojoRising]

Am I incredibly sad I’ll never see a team like 2010 Duke grow over four years of playing together again? Absolutely. Do I still love college basketball, and look forward to it every November? Absolutely.

It’s unfortunate that a lot of what was great about the product has changed, but there’s still plenty I like. That said, I feel much more positively about the transfer trends than a lot of you do.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

blue blood crybaby bitches should walk three decades in my shoes.

 

[GhostOf301]

The excitement for the game has been in a somewhat steady decline for me over the past few seasons. With the transition to the OAD era and the lack of defensive effort that goes with it, the game just isn't the same. Like wojo said above, not being able to watch a team develop and grow together is really disappointing. Whether it's because of OADs, players who think they're, OAD talent and other promising players opting to leave for another scholl, it doesn't matter. Then with the abrupt ending to the covid year, it made it very difficult to get into it last year. Especially without fans. With K retiring it actually adds a certain element of excitement. Not that I am stoked that he's leaving after next year, just that it was only a matter of time and I am interested in seeing how Duke responds as a program and how Scheyer does his first few years.

I guess to answer the question, the present does not excite me. The future is a toss up.

 

[ThePhog08]

So to make sure I am right

HS players can get paid
Recruits can get paid overseas or in G league
Image and likeness $ coming to college
Players can immediately transfer to any school
Coach K and Roy retiring

College bball is going to be wild. No clue what to expect.

 

[jhmossy]

I am less and less excited about college basketball in general. The only thing that's keeping me engaged is the high level of parity in the sport. However, I am not sure how long that is going to last with a lot of these changes.

This is pretty much the prime of UVA basketball so I'm still excited about UVA basketball. I expect UVA to continue to be at the top of the ACC, particularly with these HOF coaches starting to retire. My concern is that the one time transfer rule is going to hurt UVA's continuity and we pretty much need that to be elite. We don't really excel with recruiting the top high school kids because of our style and pace. We pretty much have to land our top targets before other programs come calling. We've been pretty successful at landing transfers but you can't really excel in the pack line defense in a year. I'm not sure the transfer game is sustainable for us to be elite.

 

[dukedevilz]

The 80's and 90's were the golden era for college basketball and the NBA. I certainly have nostalgia of those days of old. But, they are in the past.

The game isn't perfect, but it's still my absolute favorite thing to engage in. Would love to have guys around for 3-4 years. I think it's just easier to accept that rosters are always going to have a high turnover. I find that much of discontent as a basketball fan, or in life in general, simply comes from high or unrealistic expectations. I prefer to remove expectations and just enjoy the product we do have.

 

[WojoRising]

I'm excited about UVA basketball.

If there was ever an indictment about the state of the game

 

[JimboBBN]

To the casual fan, I'm sure interest is going down. At least to me it makes sense. Casual fans watch for stars, and ours are becoming more and more watered down due to the new rules.

 

[jhmossy]

If there was ever an indictment about the state of the game

Yeah, I don't anyone else to be excited by UVA basketball. I'm okay with that.

 

[boilerzz]

I was a lot more excited until I found out Will Wade wasn't making me the same strong ass offer he was making recruits.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

As long as games are close I'll continue to enjoy it. But there's no doubt the level of play is way down from where it was years ago. But that's why I also watch a ton of NBA so I can see what good players look like.

 

[ExitFlagger]

The product definitely isn't what it was a decade or two ago, but I'm still into it.

The transfer portal craziness is annoying in some ways but I think it will strengthen the game. We're going to see more stacked power conference teams. On paper, the field looks much stronger than last year.

It'll weaken midmajors, but eff 'em. All they're good for is upsetting KU in an early round of the tourney and then bowing out the next round.

 

[Villian07]

I know we are all supposed to be killing each other in the political thread, but I had this crazy idea we could discuss some hoops in the summer.

Odds are if you are posting on this board, you are either a diehard fan of your schools basketball team, or the sport of college basketball in general. Up until the last few years, I made it a point to watch every Kentucky game I was able to. I followed recruiting harder than an adult man should. And I have spent hours reading articles and opinions about players and teams. This has definitely changed over the years.

At this point, college basketball feels like a mess to me. It's become almost impossible to follow recruiting and transfers (unless you're @dukedevilz), you are starting to see some of the games best prospects go elsewhere before the pros, and that includes staying in the United States at this point. Some of the sports pioneers and greats are now hanging it up and retiring.

I'm sure I will get at least one "You're just saying this because Kentucky sucks," and that's fine. I have felt like this longer than one season. Is there logic in feeling college basketball is headed down a bad path, or just like everything else in life, its changing and I just have to deal with it. Maybe no one else feels the same way I do. I understand rules have changed things in the past, it just feels different now.

Lost alot of appeal when they wuit letting kids go to nba out of high school. I thibk thats when the cheating really ramped out of control, imo.

 

[GE Nole]

Am I incredibly sad I’ll never see a team like 2010 Duke grow over four years of playing together again? Absolutely. Do I still love college basketball, and look forward to it every November? Absolutely.

It’s unfortunate that a lot of what was great about the product has changed, but there’s still plenty I like. That said, I feel much more positively about the transfer trends than a lot of you do.

Why won’t you see that again? FSU had a team like that in 2020 that sadly missed out on a chance at an NCAA Tourney.

Georgia Tech had a team like that this past year.

Maybe with more top guys going to the G league, you’ll get to see more college teams develop and grow over 2-3 years? So maybe it’s actually a shift back to what things were like in the 2000s?

 

[JimboBBN]

Why won’t you see that again? FSU had a team like that in 2020 that sadly missed out on a chance at an NCAA Tourney.

Georgia Tech had a team like that this past year.

Maybe with more top guys going to the G league, you’ll get to see more college teams develop and grow over 2-3 years? So maybe it’s actually a shift back to what things were like in the 2000s?

Even if that is the case, and its honestly one of the better ones as far as the outlook of the sport, the product will never be as good as it was 20 years ago. Even 10. The "stars" of college basketball are going to be extremely watered down over the coming years compared to previous eras.

 

[GE Nole]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think college basketball is in a better place now than it was 6-7 years ago. It was obvious that the one and done era backfired. I am happy to see some of the changes we’ve seen and I hope kids will eventually be able to just go from high school to the league again.

To me, the sport that is losing its luster more rapidly is college football. The physicality is being removed, the games take forever, replay is an abomination, and if they go to 16 playoff teams, what will even be the point of regular season? 16 teams? There’s gonna be team going 8-4 making the playoffs.

 

[GE Nole]

Even if that is the case, and its honestly one of the better ones as far as the outlook of the sport, the product will never be as good as it was 20 years ago. Even 10. The "stars" of college basketball are going to be extremely watered down over the coming years compared to previous eras.

That’s totally fair. But I never watched college hoops for the stars. I watched for the rivalries, diversity of styles, pageantry, and because I love college sports living in a college town.

When I want to watch stars play, I watch the NFL and the NBA. And I do both frequently.

 

[JimboBBN]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think college basketball is in a better place now than it was 6-7 years ago. It was obvious that the one and done era backfired. I am happy to see some of the changes we’ve seen and I hope kids will eventually be able to just go from high school to the league again.

To me, the sport that is losing its luster more rapidly is college football. The physicality is being removed, the games take forever, replay is an abomination, and if they go to 16 playoff teams, what will even be the point of regular season? 16 teams? There’s gonna be team going 8-4 making the playoffs.

Man, I REALLY hope that 16 team playoff thing is a joke. I think four is perfect. Even 8 would be alright, I guess. But damn, 16? You're adding four games to one teams season in that scenario.

 

[JimboBBN]

That’s totally fair. But I never watched college hoops for the stars. I watched for the rivalries, diversity of styles, pageantry, and because I love college sports living in a college town.

When I want to watch stars play, I watch the NFL and the NBA. And I do both frequently.

Fair point, and I am glad to see there will be less OAD as the top recruits likely won't all go to college anymore. So we will start seeing at least a tad more consistency in P5 rosters going forward.

 

[GE Nole]

Man, I REALLY hope that 16 team playoff thing is a joke. I think four is perfect. Even 8 would be alright, I guess. But damn, 16? You're adding four games to one teams season in that scenario.

6 is the magic number for me. It makes it compelling to see who gets the last spot or two AND makes it compelling to see who gets the byes.

And then you host the wild card games at the home of seeds 3 and 4 and add intrigue there, not to mention help out the small businesses in those college towns and actually do something for the fans.

6 is perfect. 16 is pathetic.

 

[dukedevilz]

To me, the sport that is losing its luster more rapidly is college football. The physicality is being removed, the games take forever, replay is an abomination, and if they go to 16 playoff teams, what will even be the point of regular season? 16 teams? There’s gonna be team going 8-4 making the playoffs.

College football is also losing its luster because of the oligarchy of Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. Season gets really boring when it's the same teams and there are few, if any significant upsets.

While the BCS era had plenty of criticism, it was kind of cool to see in the first 6 years of the BCS format there were 6 different national champions from 6 different conferences.

 

[dukedevilz]

Man, I REALLY hope that 16 team playoff thing is a joke. I think four is perfect. Even 8 would be alright, I guess. But damn, 16? You're adding four games to one teams season in that scenario.

I'd like to see 8, personally. 5 conference champions + 2 at-large bids + best G5 champion. I realize the G5 team in this format would typically be blasted as the 8 seed. But, there have been some incredible teams coming from the MWC/WAC and AAC.

Utah had two undefeated teams in 2004 and 2008. TCU and Boise State had some fantastic runs from 2008-2010. Just sad that none of those schools had a chance to compete for a title. The undefeated '08 Utah team pummeled Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. The '09 Boise State team went undefeated, beat the Pac-12 champs and previously unbeaten TCU, but still no shot at a title. Same for '10 TCU who went undefeated and took down #4 Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. The 2017 UCF team also didn't have any losses to account for, and they beat an Auburn team that took down both Georgia and Alabama, the two teams battling it out for the 2017 title.

TCU and Utah have both upgraded their conferences since then. Just seems like the little guy has close to ZERO chance to compete for the title. New Year's Six bowl games are cool, but for a team like UCF in 2017, it's really got to sting a bit when everyone else has losses to justify, and you go undefeated and beat a really dominant team like Auburn.

 

[WojoRising]

Why won’t you see that again? FSU had a team like that in 2020 that sadly missed out on a chance at an NCAA Tourney.

Georgia Tech had a team like that this past year.

Maybe with more top guys going to the G league, you’ll get to see more college teams develop and grow over 2-3 years? So maybe it’s actually a shift back to what things were like in the 2000s?

Of course it does still happen, and can still happen, it’s just much more rare. Especially at a place like Duke, where, sadly, if I’m seeing that, it’s probably a team that’s not great. Mark Williams coming back for a sophomore year, and Moore still being here gave me a little hope.

Outside of Duke even, as someone who watches most Binghamton games and follows the America East, many smaller schools have much more turnover of late, too (it seems, not stats or research behind this). It’s just not as common for anybody to really stick around. Not saying it’s extinct everywhere.

 

[toonces11]

Man, I REALLY hope that 16 team playoff thing is a joke. I think four is perfect. Even 8 would be alright, I guess. But damn, 16? You're adding four games to one teams season in that scenario.

As a Jayhawk football fan---Ill never have to worry about the playoffs.

 

[dukedevilz]

As a Jayhawk football fan---Ill never have to worry about the playoffs.

Obligatory post.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Are we starting a new "modern era" of basketball?

I guess to put it short. I like change. I like seeing how it plays out. I have no idea what to expect so I guess that in itself makes it exciting.

IMO, over the landscape we won't see many players making money off NLI. I think some schools will use/promote it a lot more than others, but as a whole, I don't think there'll that many. I also can see mid majors becoming like a farm system for the top conferences.

 

[RichardMassive]

Man, I REALLY hope that 16 team playoff thing is a joke. I think four is perfect. Even 8 would be alright, I guess. But damn, 16? You're adding four games to one teams season in that scenario.

How is 4 perfect when its essentially the same 4 teams every year? College football sucks to everyone outside of Bama, Clemson and OSU fans. You're weird if you think otherwise

 

[JimboBBN]

How is 4 perfect when its essentially the same 4 teams every year. College football sucks to everyone outside of Bama, Clemson and OSU fans. You're weird if you think otherwise

I’m fine with 6. I’m not a fan of punishing teams for being good. That’s an odd take.

 

[GE Nole]

College football is also losing its luster because of the oligarchy of Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. Season gets really boring when it's the same teams and there are few, if any significant upsets.

While the BCS era had plenty of criticism, it was kind of cool to see in the first 6 years of the BCS format there were 6 different national champions from 6 different conferences.

Truthfully it’s not the oligarchy that bothers me. It’s just that the game itself isn’t as good as it was 15 years ago. It’s a bastardized version of what football used to be.

 

[WestTexasRaider]

Definitely seems like a transitioning period in CBB, or college sports in general. It's hard to accept change when college sports are all about tradition, but its something we all have to deal with and accept if we want to still be fans. I'm cautiously optimistic on it all.

And 6 teams is the perfect format for CFB playoff. You have to let all P5 Champs in.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Charge/block call gets me the most. There's nothing worse than a play coming down to a wire and a inconsistent judgement call decides the game.

I like they're constantly trying to evolve each offseason, but that call has to be made easier.

 

[RichardMassive]

I’m fine with 6. I’m not a fan of punishing teams for being good. That’s an odd take.

Nothing odd about the take. It's boring seeing the same teams every year. The tournament is the reason that college basketball is still a great product. Football needs something similar with anywhere between 12 or 16 teams. Power 5 conference winners get an auto bid

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Nothing odd about the take. It's boring seeing the same teams every year. The tournament is the reason that college basketball is still a great product. Football needs something similar with anywhere between 12 or 16 teams. Power 5 conference winners get an auto bid

I like 8 team playoff. Maybe just do top 8 in the final BCS rankings. Everyone already knows the rankings. Just keep it as simple as possible w/o an entirely too long season. A lot of future pro's opt out earlier for some bowls, don't want to see that in the playoffs.

 

[JimboBBN]

Nothing odd about the take. It's boring seeing the same teams every year. The tournament is the reason that college basketball is still a great product. Football needs something similar with anywhere between 12 or 16 teams. Power 5 conference winners get an auto bid

I just don’t think more than 6 teams deserve a chance, honestly. If you get to 8 or 16, you’re letting in teams that have no business competing for a national championship. It’s not like basketball. You can’t play 6 games in 3 weeks. Which is why you have to limit the field to teams that have legit resumes and deserve a chance at the championship.

I think if it bothers other programs so much that it’s the same teams over and over, maybe they need to step it up a notch. And this is coming from a fan that will probably never see his team even remotely close to the playoff.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I just don’t think more than 6 teams deserve a chance, honestly. If you get to 8 or 16, you’re letting in teams that have no business competing for a national championship. It’s not like basketball. You can’t play 6 games in 3 weeks. Which is why you have to limit the field to teams that have legit resumes and deserve a chance at the championship.

I think if it bothers other programs so much that it’s the same teams over and over, maybe they need to step it up a notch. And this is coming from a fan that will probably never see his team even remotely close to the playoff.

Division title here we come!

 

[kyjeff1]

I'd like to see 8, personally. 5 conference champions + 2 at-large bids + best G5 champion. I realize the G5 team in this format would typically be blasted as the 8 seed. But, there have been some incredible teams coming from the MWC/WAC and AAC.

Utah had two undefeated teams in 2004 and 2008. TCU and Boise State had some fantastic runs from 2008-2010. Just sad that none of those schools had a chance to compete for a title. The undefeated '08 Utah team pummeled Alabama in the Sugar Bowl. The '09 Boise State team went undefeated, beat the Pac-12 champs and previously unbeaten TCU, but still no shot at a title. Same for '10 TCU who went undefeated and took down #4 Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl. The 2017 UCF team also didn't have any losses to account for, and they beat an Auburn team that took down both Georgia and Alabama, the two teams battling it out for the 2017 title.

TCU and Utah have both upgraded their conferences since then. Just seems like the little guy has close to ZERO chance to compete for the title. New Year's Six bowl games are cool, but for a team like UCF in 2017, it's really got to sting a bit when everyone else has losses to justify, and you go undefeated and beat a really dominant team like Auburn.

You make great points, but one thing I have noticed is teams that were in the running for the playoff and didn't make it, usually played like dog sh!t in their bowl games.

I just don't think you can put too much stock in what a team does in a meaningless bowl game after they just missed out on a shot at a title.

 

[kyjeff1]

The NCAAT is still the best, most exciting finish to a season in all of sports. UK wasn’t in it last year, but it was still extremely fun to watch.

I'm all in favor of an 8 team college playoff system, 6 teams would be fine too, but there should definitely be more than 4.

 

[dukedevilz]

Truthfully it’s not the oligarchy that bothers me. It’s just that the game itself isn’t as good as it was 15 years ago. It’s a bastardized version of what football used to be.

What newer aspects of the game bother you?