USA loses to France in FIBA Quarterfinals

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by boilerzz, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. boilerzz

    boilerzz Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2002
    Messages:
    3,514
    Likes Received:
    3,647
  2. LetsGoDuke301

    LetsGoDuke301 Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    18,906
    Likes Received:
    29,177
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    I am pretty sure Krzyzewski just rolled the ball out. What happened?
     
    Quavarius likes this.
  3. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    7,526
    I think its goes to show how significant the tiers of NBA players there are.
     
  4. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Messages:
    22,107
    Likes Received:
    13,436
    Location:
    Midland, TX
    [​IMG]
     
  5. Villian07

    Villian07 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    292
    I know it being sarcastic but pop is the coach now. And we deserve to lose when the top 10 or more American born players chose not to play but guys like gobert and Giannis chose to play.
     
    Montana81 likes this.
  6. bkingUK

    bkingUK Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    24,689
    Likes Received:
    5,075
    I mean our best player was Donovan Mitchell. We had no shot.
     
    Montana81 likes this.
  7. bMORE607

    bMORE607 Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Messages:
    10,090
    Likes Received:
    14,418
    Out RollLaugh
     
    lurkeraspect84 likes this.
  8. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    26,662
    Likes Received:
    7,813
    I Blame Trump
     
  9. Kevin Bryan

    Kevin Bryan Moderator
    Moderator
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    11,750
    Likes Received:
    10,072
    Even the American scrubs should be able to smoke an all-star team from any other country.
     
    denniden and LetsGoDuke301 like this.
  10. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    I've always loved this comment that Durant made a few years back. It's kind of funny, but I also sense that K wants to utilize the strengths of his players and he doesn't want them to feel restricted in any way

    "But once I got to play [for] him, I was like, 'Wow, I should have looked at Duke a little bit more than I did.' ... He literally told me one time, I think it was 2010 [at the Worlds in Turkey], he was like, 'Don't pass the ball.' And I was like, 'All right, cool, that's the way I want to play.'"
     
  11. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    Australia is in the semifinals with three starters that played at Saint Mary's. Let that sink in for a moment.
     
  12. RipThru

    RipThru Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    708
    You think Pop had the same quality of roster K did?
     
  13. LetsGoDuke301

    LetsGoDuke301 Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2009
    Messages:
    18,906
    Likes Received:
    29,177
    Location:
    Wilmington, NC
    So do players just not want to play for Popovich like they did for Krzyzewski? Shouldn't we still have a better roster than France?
     
    toonces11 likes this.
  14. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    7,526
    I think there is a roster full of wildly overpaid basketball players on team USA playing against teams of guys that barely make shit---and get beat by GD Serbia. Every player should be publicly shamed!!!!!!!!!!!

    Also---as good as pop is, and respected as he is.....he is not Coack K
     
    LetsGoDuke301 likes this.
  15. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,183
    Likes Received:
    13,656
    Location:
    The Bluegrass State
    I used to think this way but I’m not sure if our 4th or 5th team can do it anymore. I miss the days watching our top 15 players all gang bang the rest of the world
     
    speedfrk and RipThru like this.
  16. Villian07

    Villian07 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2015
    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    292
    I think it’s more to do with other countries for the most part the main sport is soccer. And the ultimate prize in soccer is the World Cup. So when they started doing the fiba World Cup, I think it means more to foreign countries than is does which is why u see players like gianis and jokic playing for their country when our probly top 10-15 American players decided not to play. We/the American players value the olympics more than the World Cup.

    If our World Cup roster was an nba team I doubt they could even make the conference championship in either conference. I mean we had guys on the roster that have never even played in the nba all star game.
     
  17. RipThru

    RipThru Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    770
    Likes Received:
    708
    1. The US beat France in 2016 by 3 points, WITH Durant, Kyrie, etc...
    2. "Load Management" is the new buzz word; players want to rest
    3. World Cup is not the Olympics. I expect to see a better roster then
    4. France has NBA talent too.
     
  18. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    The 2004 team had D-Wade, LeBron, Carmelo - plus Tim Duncan and Allen Iverson in their prime. And that team lost 3 games. I'll concede that it was a poorly constructed team with limited outside shooting - and Stephon Marbury played too much. But on paper, you'd think the 04 team would have won without too much difficulty. The reality is, you need your A team, or at least your B team to win this thing. What really helps international teams, in comparison to Team USA, is they have continuity. The majority of the international guys have been playing together since they were teenagers.
     
    RipThru and JimboBBN like this.
  19. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,183
    Likes Received:
    13,656
    Location:
    The Bluegrass State
    All true. Our 2012 Olympic team was the best basketball team I’ve ever seen. I wasn’t around to watch the 92 team, but 12 might be the best basketball team of all time
     
    dukedevilz likes this.
  20. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    Probably the best team this century. But, I'd still take 92 and 96 over them. The 96 team had 11 Hall of Famers on the team.
     
    RipThru likes this.
  21. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    All 12 members of the '96 Olympic team made one of the 3 All-NBA Teams from 1996.

    1995-96

    FIRST TEAM

    F: Scottie Pippen
    F: Karl Malone
    C: David Robinson

    G: Michael Jordan
    G: Anfernee Hardaway

    SECOND TEAM

    F: Grant Hill
    F: Shawn Kemp
    C: Hakeem Olajuwon
    G: Gary Payton
    G: John Stockton


    THIRD TEAM

    F: Charles Barkley
    F: Juwan Howard
    C: Shaquille O'Neal
    G: Reggie Miller
    G: Mitch Richmond
     
  22. Scotty00

    Scotty00 Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2008
    Messages:
    7,827
    Likes Received:
    1,456
    Did y’all see our starting 5? Wasn’t winning much with that group period.
     
  23. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,183
    Likes Received:
    13,656
    Location:
    The Bluegrass State
    I didn’t know much about 96 but I would take 12 over that team. Lebron, Kobe, and KD alone are better than anyone on that team not named Michael
     
  24. Global Havok

    Global Havok Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    4,820
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    Why in the world should we shame the players that actually decided to represent their country? Taking a bunch of mid-tier NBA players and putting them together for a few weeks to play the national team of other countries that have (mostly) played as a unit for years is typically not going to end well for the USA.
     
  25. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    8,533
    Likes Received:
    7,526
    Easy there booster seat-----It was tongue in cheek.
     
  26. bkingUK

    bkingUK Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    24,689
    Likes Received:
    5,075
    Think it’s more about playing for Trump to be honest. It’s already a challenge to get them to play when they don’t get paid for it.
     
    UL_1986 likes this.
  27. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    It's a legitimate argument. I could see it both ways. I just think the 96 team was more balanced. If you look at this ranking made by SLAM last year, you'll find the 96 team has 8 players in the top 50, meanwhile the 2012 has 5 guys in the top 50. And certainly guys like James Harden and Anthony Davis will inevitably climb into the the top 50, but those guys were #11 and #12 on the team in minutes.

    I would agree that the 2012 team probably had more star-power with LeBron and KD. Kobe was still really good, too. But he was slightly on the decline, being almost 34. And USA Basketball has never really been dominated by just a few players the way many NBA teams are constructed. LeBron-KD-Kobe scoring output represented less than 40% of the team's total points. The 2012 team had 7 of the 15 players on the All-NBA teams - meanwhile the 1996 team had 12 of the 15 All-NBA players. On top of that, the 96 team won every game by 20+ points - conversely, the '2012 team had two single-digit victories (Lithuania and Spain).
     
  28. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,183
    Likes Received:
    13,656
    Location:
    The Bluegrass State
    Fair points and good stuff. I guess I’m looking at it in the sense that, what made 12 great was their ball movement and outright talent/athletic advantage. Any given game, you have 3 or 4 guys that can get you 30 a game. Just from looking at the 96 roster, it seems they are more big oriented. Guys that need to be set up and can’t get their own shot as easily.

    The eras obviously have a lot to do with it. 12 would easily win the shooting battle and 96 would probably win rebounding and paint scoring. I would just have a hard time betting against Kobe, KD, and LBJ.
     
    dukedevilz likes this.
  29. Global Havok

    Global Havok Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    4,820
    Likes Received:
    1,683
    Eyeroll Your sarcasm was so evident in your font.
     
  30. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Messages:
    33,190
    Likes Received:
    14,378
    Hakeem, Malone, Barkley, and Stockton were all 33 of 34.

    8 of the guys on the 1996 team were 30 or older. Only 4 were under 30.
     
  31. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    I don't know if the ball movement was necessarily better. The '96 team actually averaged more assists per game. I would agree that the spacing was probably better with the '12 team, though. Certainly the game has evolved and players/coaches have figured out that there is a higher ceiling for winning if you surround yourself with good shooters. The '96 team, however, did have Reggie Miller and Mitch Richmond, who both have a higher career 3-pt shooting percentage than anyone on the 2012 team. The '12 team undoubtedly had more/better athletes, but the '96 wouldn't be overwhelmed, IMO. Penny, Grant Hill, and Pippen could all run the floor really well. Robinson and Olajuwon were incredible athletes for their size. But yes, overall, the 96 team was more big-oriented. It would be an interesting to see how the matchup would play out with the contrasting styles. I could see it going either way, but I'd still give the edge to '96.
     
    JimboBBN likes this.
  32. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Messages:
    33,190
    Likes Received:
    14,378
    If you wanna be fair Hakeem, and Stockton were top 50 on the SLAM list but 11th, and 12th in scoring on that team (I cant find minutes from them).
     
  33. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    And all 12 of the guys on the 96 team made one of the All-NBA teams.

    Kobe Bryant had a PER of 21.9 in 2012. Between the seasons of 2001-2009, he was never below 23. So yes, he was still very good, but like I said, slightly in the decline. And Karl Malone won the MVP in 97 and 99.
     
  34. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    Yes, but all three of those guys also started some games. It was pretty obvious that the '96 team had balanced scoring and minutes. Harden/Davis combined for less than 17 minutes a game. Stockton was getting close to 2 steals per game.
     
  35. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Messages:
    33,190
    Likes Received:
    14,378
    Who started for those two teams? Based on numbers it look like:

    Gary Payton
    Reggie Miller
    Scottie Pippen
    Charles Barkley
    David Robinson


    Chris Paul
    Kobe Bryant
    Kevin Durant
    LeBron James
    Kevin Love
     
  36. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Messages:
    33,190
    Likes Received:
    14,378
    I’m just saying it’s not as saying “xxx were career top 50” and just knocking Kobe for being past his prime. It’s not like 33 and 34 year old Hakeem and Stockton were in their prime.
     
  37. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    Go back to the original argument.

    I'm not knocking him based on his age, just pointing out that he was declining a little bit. I agreed with Jimbo that the 2012 team had more star power. I just don't agree that the 2012 version of Kobe is better than everyone on the 1996 team. He was still a heckuva of a player at almost 34. But, his productivity had gone down a little bit.

    Bringing up top 50 players is a separate argument. The 1996 had better balance on the team, that was my point. The 96 team had 11 Hall of Famers, and it probably would have been 12 had Penny not been set back by injuries. All 12 of the guys on the roster were among the 15 best players in the world at the time, if you give any credence to the 3 All-NBA Teams. The 2012 USA Team only had 7 guys make one of the All NBA Teams. 96 had more balance - and 2012 had more star power.
     
  38. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2018
    Messages:
    3,706
    Likes Received:
    2,623
    Donovan or Jaylen Brown.
     
  39. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
    Gold Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Messages:
    33,190
    Likes Received:
    14,378
    The top 50 all time rankings are based on full careers and you’re not being fair if you aren’t at least acknowledging that a handful of those players were already on the decline in their careers.
     
  40. dukedevilz

    dukedevilz Well-Known Member
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    3,232
    Likes Received:
    4,027
    But were they really on the decline? Sure, 1996 may not have been the best or second best season for many. But, these guys were still stars. 12 of the 12 guys on the roster made an All-NBA Team (the 2012 team only had 7 guys make the All-NBA Teams). There were no ho-hum players on the 96 team. Penny Hardaway was the only non-Hall of Famer and he was a 1st Team All-NBA selection in 1996.

    So let's look at the old guy on the team in 2012, Kobe Bryant.

    Kobe Bryant
    Career Player Efficiency Rating Average: 22.9
    2012 PER: 21.9 (-1.0)

    He had a slight decline in 2012 from his career average, just as I mentioned. Yes, he was still very, very good. But, the 2012 Kobe wasn't quite in the same class as LeBron or KD, IMO. And like I said before, 2012 had more star-power with LBJ and KD, but I think 96 had better balance and better overall players. Now, here are the 4 older guys that you pointed out:

    Charles Barkley
    Career Player Efficiency Rating Average: 24.6
    1996 PER: 24.8 (+0.2)
    3rd Team All-NBA

    Karl Malone
    Career Player Efficiency Rating Average: 23.9
    1996 PER: 26.0 (+2.1)
    1st Team All-NBA

    Hakeem Olajuwon
    Career Player Efficiency Rating Average: 23.6
    1996 PER: 25.5 (+1.9)
    2nd Team All-NBA

    John Stockton
    Career Player Efficiency Rating Average: 21.8
    1996 PER: 21.9 (+0.1)
    3rd Team All-NBA

    On top of that, remember who made it to the 1997 Western Conference Finals. That's right, Houston and Utah, led by Barkley/Olajuwon and Malone/Stockton, respectively... Olajuwon was one year removed from winning two ships, he won the MVP in 94. Barkley was the most productive player on the 96 team. Malone and Stockton went to the NBA Finals in back-to-back seasons (and gave the Bulls a run for their money) following the 96 Olympics. And Malone went on to win 2 MVPs in 97 and 99. Yes, these guys were all still very, very talented. If we're talking about the same players four years later then certainly this is a different story. But in 1996, there was little to no drop-off in terms of production.
     

Share This Page