Should American Children Be Made to Learn a Second Language Fluently?

TheDude1

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BTW, in the OP, "fluent" is a BIG big goal.

Would people change their mind if we just said "All elementary school kids should study another language?"
 
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Jaycg15

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Complicating not by difficulty, but by adding more (unnecessary) steps.
The method shown here is approximately how most do math in there head. The extra step or two here was an exercise for practice and to demonstrate understanding.

In your head, it's more like:

12 + 8 = 20
20 + 12 = 32

8+12 = 20

or

32 - 2 = 30
30 - 10 = 20
20 - 8 = 12

2 + 10 + 8 = 20
 

Kevin Bryan

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Can't heel-toe in an auto;)

Love driving stick. Nothing as lovely as perfectly nailing a downshift so that the rpms match and you don't even notice you've shifted:) My old Mustang had this FANTASTIC short throw shifter that was an absolute pleasure.
My last 3 vehicles have been manual, going back to 1997 (including a '99 35th anniversary Mustang GT). I won't buy an automatic unless I have to, ie an SUV or a pickup. I have heard that most new trucks the standard is automatic now, and you have to special order a manual (and pay more) if that option is even offered. WTF?!
 

Kevin Bryan

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The method shown here is approximately how most do math in there head. The extra step or two here was an exercise for practice and to demonstrate understanding.

In your head, it's more like:

12 + 8 = 20
20 + 12 = 32

8+12 = 20

or

32 - 2 = 30
30 - 10 = 20
20 - 8 = 12

2 + 10 + 8 = 20
I hate the maths either way. The main reason I got a masters in biology was to avoid math and chemistry. Laughing
 
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Kevin Bryan

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Two of the three classes were interesting. The third had 6 of us in it, and no one understood any of it. The professor just passed all of us out of sympathy.
Hahaha, I had a few professors like that. It wasn't always the content we didn't understand as much as it was the heavy Indian accents. Laughing
 

IUBtown

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Back to the common core math topic; my issue with it has always been that it could hold back the smarter kids who already intuit the various ways to solve a problem. Those who are good at math usually aren’t good because they memorize equations the best, they’re good because they understand the equations well enough to intuitively break them down into smaller, more easily calculated pieces when/if needed.

It seems like common core is trying to get all kids to that point. That’s fine, but only if early advanced placement opportunities are available for the sufficiently smart kids who don’t need to sit down for a week learning that 35 is made up of three 10’s and a 5, and that ten 3’s and a 5 is the same thing. Let those kids who understand that in a minute move on to the good stuff quickly.
bingo.
 

TheDude1

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Back to the common core math topic; my issue with it has always been that it could hold back the smarter kids who already intuit the various ways to solve a problem. Those who are good at math usually aren’t good because they memorize equations the best, they’re good because they understand the equations well enough to intuitively break them down into smaller, more easily calculated pieces when/if needed.

It seems like common core is trying to get all kids to that point. That’s fine, but only if early advanced placement opportunities are available for the sufficiently smart kids who don’t need to sit down for a week learning that 35 is made up of three 10’s and a 5, and that ten 3’s and a 5 is the same thing. Let those kids who understand that in a minute move on to the good stuff quickly.
In education we have a hard time accepting that some people are good at some things and some aren’t, that some people are smart and some aren’t. The whole “No Child Left Behind” thing... the idea that we could create a rigorous test that truly gauges ability, and then teach in such a way that every single child could pass it... was the ultimate showcase of lack of acceptance of this reality, and did SO much damage to our system. Some people are good at stuff, and some aren’t. Some are smart, most are average, some are dumb. These sorts of math programs really do seem to screw the top and bottom (TWSS).
 
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toonces11

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In education we have a hard time accepting that some people are good at some things and some aren’t, that some people are smart and some aren’t. The whole “No Child Left Behind” thing... the idea that we could create a rigorous test that truly gauges ability, and then teach in such a way that every single child could pass it... was the ultimate showcase of lack of acceptance of this reality, and did SO much damage to our system. Some people are good at stuff, and some aren’t. Some are smart, most are average, some are dumb. These sorts of math programs really do seem to screw the top and bottom (TWSS).
George Carlin — ‘Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.’
 

TheDude1

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George Carlin — ‘Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.’
My favorite quote of all time, when I wonder how people can think what they think. Unfortunately saying that someone is maybe not as smart is something that isn't encouraged or even allowed in some circumstances.
 

toonces11

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My favorite quote of all time, when I wonder how people can think what they think. Unfortunately saying that someone is maybe not as smart is something that isn't encouraged or even allowed in some circumstances.
Its actually scary b/c its true. There are def all kinds of levels of smart/stupid. People that don't understand reason and rationale are the worst.
 
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hailtoyourvictor

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In education we have a hard time accepting that some people are good at some things and some aren’t, that some people are smart and some aren’t. The whole “No Child Left Behind” thing... the idea that we could create a rigorous test that truly gauges ability, and then teach in such a way that every single child could pass it... was the ultimate showcase of lack of acceptance of this reality, and did SO much damage to our system. Some people are good at stuff, and some aren’t. Some are smart, most are average, some are dumb. These sorts of math programs really do seem to screw the top and bottom (TWSS).
Welcome to the Republican party.
 
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TheDude1

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Haha yeah. Just having fun at your expense.
Okay, I caved in and looked. Hail... No Child Left Behind was signed into law by a Republican president. You know that, right?

And plenty of liberals can believe things like "Being a cop is a hard job" or "Transgender people shouldn't compete in sports with people who are not of their birth gender" or "college can't be free for everyone" or "It is okay to have people lose or be bad at things compared to other people," just as plenty of conservatives can believe things like "The government shouldn't be banning gay people from getting married" or "We need to promote more use of renewable resources" or "black people still face lots of issues in America" or "religion shouldn't be the basis of government." (BTW, several of these are, in reality, VERY conservative views... just not modern American conservative... some conservatives really rail against government getting involved with stuff like marriage or religion.)

I feel like it is only online, in places like this forum or social media, that we think otherwise.
 
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hailtoyourvictor

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Okay, I caved in and looked. Hail... No Child Left Behind was signed into law by a Republican president. You know that, right?

And plenty of liberals can believe things like "Being a cop is a hard job" or "Transgender people shouldn't compete in sports with people who are not of their birth gender" or "college can't be free for everyone" or "It is okay to have people lose or be bad at things compared to other people," just as plenty of conservatives can believe things like "The government shouldn't be banning gay people from getting married" or "We need to promote more use of renewable resources" or "black people still face lots of issues in America" or "religion shouldn't be the basis of government." (BTW, several of these are, in reality, VERY conservative views... just not modern American conservative... some conservatives really rail against government getting involved with stuff like marriage or religion.)

I feel like it is only online, in places like this forum or social media, that we think otherwise.
 
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duckboy33

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I think it should be part of the school's curriculum. Being fluent in a second language creates more opportunities for you. As for it being "forced", it wouldn't be any more "forced" than Math, Science, History, etc.
 
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BasketBallJunkie-UK

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There;s too much bullshit and not enough substance in our core educational and higher learning institutions. A total revamp and a better way of educating needs to be explored. I believe learning cultural differences should be mandatory over a mandatory language. And don't get me started on critical thinking. That would be the number 1 of any required classes at all levels.