Ranking the conferences

[IUfanBorden]

After you get past the top 2 of each conference, how does the Big 10 3 to 5 stack up with #9 VT, #12 UNC, #13 FSU. Obviously those rankings will change this week because some took losses in the ACC. But I honestly curious about the Big 10 next 3, because outside of seeing Indiana play, I haven't seen any of them.

I think Maryland, OSU, Indiana, Wisky and Purdue stack up just fine. Purdue choked away a win at FSU, and played VaTech pretty even on a neutral floor. Hell PSU beat VaTech. TBH, on a neutral floor, I think any of IU, MD, OSU, etc, etc...could win versus a FSU, VaTech or UNC. Then go to ACC next tier....UL and NC State....and I think its the same.

UM/MSU
Duke/UVA



IU, OSU, MD, Wisky, NB and Purdue, stack up just fine with VaTech, FSU, UNC, UL, NCS and SU.

 

[Mtterrell]

I just never get the "Big 12" being the toughest conference. I mean I could be wrong, but it just doesn't seem anyone but Kansas ever does much in the NCAAT. Consistently at least.

That would be incorrect. The Big 12 usually has at least 3-4 sweet 16 teams. Last year 3 of the Elite 8 were Big12 and Tech vs Nova was basically the defacto national championship game as Tech played them closer than anyone from the 8 on did.

Problem this year is, it’s Tech and KU again and the 4 teams below that will be in and out of the top 25 as they cannibalize each other.

The Big 12 will have 3-4 sweet 16 teams again but the ACC could have 5+. The acc is clearly number 1 this year.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

That would be incorrect. The Big 12 usually has at least 3-4 sweet 16 teams. Last year 3 of the Elite 8 were Big12 and Tech vs Nova was basically the defacto national championship game as Tech played them closer than anyone from the 8 on did.

Problem this year is, it’s Tech and KU again and the 4 teams below that will be in and out of the top 25 as they cannibalize each other.

The Big 12 will have 3-4 sweet 16 teams again but the ACC could have 5+. The acc is clearly number 1 this year.

From 2005 to present (14 seasons) the only Big 12 team outside of Kansas to reach the Final Four was 2016 Oklahoma and that team lost by 44 once they made it.

 

[sgrooms]

That would be incorrect. The Big 12 usually has at least 3-4 sweet 16 teams. Last year 3 of the Elite 8 were Big12 and Tech vs Nova was basically the defacto national championship game as Tech played them closer than anyone from the 8 on did.

Problem this year is, it’s Tech and KU again and the 4 teams below that will be in and out of the top 25 as they cannibalize each other.

The Big 12 will have 3-4 sweet 16 teams again but the ACC could have 5+. The acc is clearly number 1 this year.

Defacto championship game? So we're now taking the champion, looking back to exactly the Elite Eight (not because this was a Big 12 team last year, but because, well, Mtterrell said so), and calling the closest game with the champion the defacto championship? Got it.

And if by "usually has at least 3-4 sweet 16 teams," you meant at least 1 team, and at most 3, then yes.

2018 - 3
2017 - 3
2016 - 3
2015 - 2
2014 - 2
2013 - 1
2012 - 2
2011 - 1
2010 - 3
2009 - 2
2008 - 3
2007 - 1
2006 - 2

 

[Boilermaker03]

I wouldn't call the Big 10, "top heavy". After UM/MSU, you have 6 or 7 teams that are very equal, i.e. OSU, IU, Purdue, Wisky, NB, Iowa and Maryland.....maybe Minny. Northwestern, Rutgers, PSU to me are the "runts' of the litter. BUT....quite capable of beating you at their place.
No doubt UM/MSU have separated themselves. But to me, to call a conference top heavy insinuates 4 or more teams that are clearly better than the rest. IMO, thats not the case. Big 10 COULD get 8 bids or more. I'm thinking probably 7.

I've heard talk of them possibly getting 9.

 

[Boilermaker03]

ACC







Everyone else. Big 10. Laughable.

Here's an educated post. Nice troll attempt though.

 

[dukedevilz]

I wouldn’t hang my hat on the BIG 10 winning one or both games for a chance to win the conference’s first title since 2000. Think the ACC splits (in your scenario) or goes 2-0. MSU may own UVA, but other conferences own the Big 10 in NCAA Championships since 2000. Not sure the last time a Big 10 team beat an ACC team in the FF or Championship game since MSU last won it all in 2000.

Per KenPom:

1. Duke
2. Virginia
3. MSU
6. Michigan

Not sure how you would think the Big 10 two best team would beat the ACC’s two best teams.

I was curious to see how long it's been since a Big 10 team beat the ACC in the Final Four. Here's what I found:

2015: Duke > Wisconsin
2015: Duke > Michigan State
2009: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Illinois
2002: Maryland > Indiana
1999: Duke > Michigan State
1993: UNC > Michigan
1992: Duke > Indiana
1992: Duke > Michigan

1981: Indiana > UNC

Yup. 19 freaking 81. Crazy.

 

[Boilermaker03]

No way you can put Maryland in the same discussion as Michigan and MSU. Sure their records are similar. But thats it. MD isn't on the same level as UM/MSU. The Terps are no better than OSU, Purdue, IU, Wisky, etc, etc....Big 10 right now is:

UM/MSU






OSU, MD, IU, Wisky, Neb, etc, etc....













Illinois.

Fixed it for you. Rutgers actually just beat someone good lol.

 

[Boilermaker03]

No,,,thats not what he said.



He's implying b/c MD is at the top with UM/MSU, that they are on the same level as those two. Or at least that's how I took it. To me he's saying MD is just as good as UM/MSU.

Yeah I agree with Borden here. Maryland is good but not that good.

 

[Boilermaker03]

I think Maryland, OSU, Indiana, Wisky and Purdue stack up just fine. Purdue choked away a win at FSU, and played VaTech pretty even on a neutral floor. Hell PSU beat VaTech. TBH, on a neutral floor, I think any of IU, MD, OSU, etc, etc...could win versus a FSU, VaTech or UNC. Then go to ACC next tier....UL and NC State....and I think its the same.

UM/MSU
Duke/UVA



IU, OSU, MD, Wisky, NB and Purdue, stack up just fine with VaTech, FSU, UNC, UL, NCS and SU.

OMG don't remind me of the FSU loss... Two of our best FT shooters missed 8 FT's and we only lost by a point. I think we are playing a LOT better now than we were then too. Much better D and found a gem in Williams.

 

[sgrooms]

I was curious to see how long it's been since a Big 10 team beat the ACC in the Final Four. Here's what I found:

2015: Duke > Wisconsin
2015: Duke > Michigan State
2009: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Illinois
2002: Maryland > Indiana
1999: Duke > Michigan State
1993: UNC > Michigan
1992: Duke > Indiana
1992: Duke > Michigan

1981: Indiana > UNC

Yup. 19 freaking 81. Crazy.

That's fairly decisive. What the heck happened in the 80's?

 

[Quavarius]

I was curious to see how long it's been since a Big 10 team beat the ACC in the Final Four. Here's what I found:

2015: Duke > Wisconsin
2015: Duke > Michigan State
2009: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Illinois
2002: Maryland > Indiana
1999: Duke > Michigan State
1993: UNC > Michigan
1992: Duke > Indiana
1992: Duke > Michigan

1981: Indiana > UNC

Yup. 19 freaking 81. Crazy.

Based on those trends, I don’t see it happening this year if they should meet. Not out of the realm of possibility, but history isn’t on their side.

P.S. Thanks Indiana

 

[hawkit3113]

Big 10
Acc
Big 12
SEC
Big East


Who cares after that

 

[sgrooms]

Big 10
Acc
Big 12
SEC
Big East


Who cares after that

You mean you're not going to rank the rest of the "Power 10" conferences?

 

[Afamu]

Big 10
Acc
Big 12
SEC
Big East


Who cares after that

Yeah, because actual results and head to head stats bring you to this conclusion.

Most boring basketball on the planet is in the Big10.

Who just beat OSU? And Iowa is more famous for their coach losing his mind on the sidelines.

 

[dragonhawk1855]

No way you can put Maryland in the same discussion as Michigan and MSU. Sure their records are similar. But thats it. MD isn't on the same level as UM/MSU. The Terps are no better than OSU, Purdue, IU, Wisky, etc, etc....Big 10 right now is:

UM/MSU






OSU, MD, IU, Wisky, Neb, etc, etc....













Rutgers.

Just said where things stand in the BT as of now. these 3 are getting some seperation from the rest of the BT. there are a lot of BT games left and things can change.
Iowa has beat both Nebraska and OSU. so maybe Iowa moves into the top 5 or not.

 

[kluegs17]

Depends. ACC and B1G are most top heavy. B12 and SEC have more parody (and are thus tougher to navigate throughout the season).

WRONG

 

[Kronic22]

The big 12 is generally full of sweet 16 ceiling teams (aside from KU).

No one recruits well enough outside of KU (maybe Texas) to get much past that.

There are no bad teams in the big 12 this year, and unless ku gets there shit together, no great teams either. Tech and KU will prolly be 3 seeds.

 

[IUfanBorden]

OMG don't remind me of the FSU loss... Two of our best FT shooters missed 8 FT's and we only lost by a point. I think we are playing a LOT better now than we were then too. Much better D and found a gem in Williams.

You guys aren't that bad. Tough schedule. My biggest issue with Purdue is I feel you rely to heavily on the "3".

 

[IUfanBorden]

From 2005 to present (14 seasons) the only Big 12 team outside of Kansas to reach the Final Four was 2016 Oklahoma and that team lost by 44 once they made it.

Yeah, this was more my line of thinking....Plus, there's a reason I don't recall many teams outside of KU making noise---Its usually b/c they dont; yeah a year here or there. But for the most part----Not really.

 

[Free_Salato_Blue]

Rather see them stop overpopulating BIG teams in the tourney and have more mid majors.
Especially ones that won their regular season and not their conference tourney.

This century
ACC
Big East
SEC
AAC

BIG12, Big10
PAC10

 

[Boilermaker03]

You guys aren't that bad. Tough schedule. My biggest issue with Purdue is I feel you rely to heavily on the "3".

I agree, although I think if Williams can keep improving the way he is, our interior game has been coming along nicely these last few games.

 

[Mtterrell]

Defacto championship game? So we're now taking the champion, looking back to exactly the Elite Eight (not because this was a Big 12 team last year, but because, well, Mtterrell said so), and calling the closest game with the champion the defacto championship? Got it.

And if by "usually has at least 3-4 sweet 16 teams," you meant at least 1 team, and at most 3, then yes.

2018 - 3
2017 - 3
2016 - 3
2015 - 2
2014 - 2
2013 - 1
2012 - 2
2011 - 1
2010 - 3
2009 - 2
2008 - 3
2007 - 1
2006 - 2

You get worked up easily, that’s good to know....

Fact of the matter is, that de facto statement isn’t my hot sports take, it was the comment of quite a few bball talking heads. So gripe at Fran, Vitale etc...

The 3-4 statement was wrong, but I generally don’t worry about much past 4 yrs or so b/c the pecking order can change greatly by then.

Point is, last year we had 3 sweet 16 teams. Coincidentally, we ended up with 3 elite 8 teams. Fairly impressive, don’t you think.

 

[bMORE607]

I was curious to see how long it's been since a Big 10 team beat the ACC in the Final Four. Here's what I found:

2015: Duke > Wisconsin
2015: Duke > Michigan State
2009: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Illinois
2002: Maryland > Indiana
1999: Duke > Michigan State
1993: UNC > Michigan
1992: Duke > Indiana
1992: Duke > Michigan

1981: Indiana > UNC

Yup. 19 freaking 81. Crazy.

Everybody knows Illinois got robbed in 2005 by officiating. @Jaycg15

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

I was curious to see how long it's been since a Big 10 team beat the ACC in the Final Four. Here's what I found:

2015: Duke > Wisconsin
2015: Duke > Michigan State
2009: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Michigan State
2005: UNC > Illinois
2002: Maryland > Indiana
1999: Duke > Michigan State
1993: UNC > Michigan
1992: Duke > Indiana
1992: Duke > Michigan

1981: Indiana > UNC

Yup. 19 freaking 81. Crazy.

Too bad we beat Florida State in the Elite 8 instead of the final four last and too bad Syracuse didn’t join the ACC until the year after we beat them in 2013.

 

[dukedevilz]

Too bad we beat Florida State in the Elite 8 instead of the final four last and too bad Syracuse didn’t join the ACC until the year after we beat them in 2013.

And too bad Louisville wasn't in the ACC in 2013.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

And too bad Louisville wasn't in the ACC in 2013.

Is it cool to claim vacated years? I’m always worried about claiming Michigan’s vacated final fours.

 

[dukedevilz]

Is it cool to claim vacated years? I’m always worried about claiming Michigan’s vacated final fours.

I don't care for revisionist history, personally.

Also, fun fact: K and Roy are a combined 24-5 verse the Big Ten in the NCAA Tournament.

 

[Jhawks]

From 2005 to present (14 seasons) the only Big 12 team outside of Kansas to reach the Final Four was 2016 Oklahoma and that team lost by 44 once they made it.

This is true but the 2000's was a great decade for the Big 12.

Final Fours
2002- Oklahoma & KU
2003 - Texas & KU
2004 - Oklahoma State
2008 - KU

FWIW, Bill Self (at KU) is 14-2 against the ACC including 3-0 vs UNC (all tournament games) and 3-1 vs Duke (1-0 in tournament games).

 

[dukedevilz]

This is true but the 2000's was a great decade for the Big 12.

Final Fours
2002- Oklahoma & KU
2003 - Texas & KU
2004 - Oklahoma State


FWIW, Bill Self (at KU) is 14-2 against the ACC including 3-0 vs UNC (all tournament games) and 3-1 vs Duke (1-0 in tournament games).

I always look forward to seeing Kansas paired in the same region as UNC. Kind of bummed you guys lost to Oregon in 2017... Bill Self is the ACC Slayer.

 

[Jhawks]

I always look forward to seeing Kansas paired in the same region as UNC. Kind of bummed you guys lost to Oregon in 2017... Bill Self is the ACC Slayer.

Yeah that game was crushing bc I think we would have beaten UNC and the Oregon game was played in KC. We had just beat Purdue by like 35 in the Sweet 16. We had a thin bench bc then freshman Udoka Azubuike broke the same tendons in the same hand as this year's season ending injury and Josh Jackson was in foul trouble the entire game. I think he only played like 2 minutes in the first half.



As far as ranking conferences I guess it depends on what you value. To me the old Big East and ACC were usually the best conferences. I don't know if the Big 12 is the best these last few years but I do believe it is way undervalued by fans of basically every other conference.

 

[Jaycg15]

Everybody knows Illinois got robbed in 2005 by officiating. @Jaycg15

UNC still barely beat us. I'd take Illinois in that matchup 70% of the time. Sean May couldn't be breathed on in that game though.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

This is true but the 2000's was a great decade for the Big 12.

Final Fours
2002- Oklahoma & KU
2003 - Texas & KU
2004 - Oklahoma State
2008 - KU

FWIW, Bill Self (at KU) is 14-2 against the ACC including 3-0 vs UNC (all tournament games) and 3-1 vs Duke (1-0 in tournament games).

My post is to a guy who was arguing the Big 12 has been good in the tournament outside of Kansas.

 

[Jhawks]

My post is to a guy who was arguing the Big 12 has been good in the tournament outside of Kansas.

word. I just thought it was worth mentioning since you cut off at 14 seasons but if you'd gone 17 seasons there'd be 5 more F4's. The Big 12 hasn't been good in the elite eight for some reason, KU included. I know KSU, OU, UT, and Baylor have been to a handful of elite 8's. in the last 10 or so years.

Its tough to evaluate based solely on a single elimination tournament. Michigan State reached the final four in 2015 but they weren't a very good team and were clearly not close to Wisconsin, UK, and Duke. On the other hand there are some great teams that don't even reach the final four.

 

[dukedevilz]

Yeah that game was crushing bc I think we would have beaten UNC and the Oregon game was played in KC. We had just beat Purdue by like 35 in the Sweet 16. We had a thin bench bc then freshman Udoka Azubuike broke the same tendons in the same hand as this year's season ending injury and Josh Jackson was in foul trouble the entire game. I think he only played like 2 minutes in the first half.



As far as ranking conferences I guess it depends on what you value. To me the old Big East and ACC were usually the best conferences. I don't know if the Big 12 is the best these last few years but I do believe it is way undervalued by fans of basically every other conference.

Big 12 has always done well in the metrics because they haven't had any weak links like other conferences. Seems like year after year every team is in the top 100. OSU is currently 68th in the Net Rankings, which is 9th in the conference. So yes, certainly different ways to assess the strength of a conference. It you're looking for which one is the toughest to win on the road, I think the Big 12 is the safe pick. Most likely the Big 12 Champ will have a lower winning% than other power-6 conference champs because there are no gimmes - ie: Kansas going 13-5 last year, and second place was 11-7.

If you're looking for which conference has the best chance of putting teams in the Elite 8 or Final Four, I would probably go with the ACC. Obviously there is the big 3 in UVA, Duke, and UNC. But Florida State was in the Elite 8 last year, and if healthy, could pose a threat again. Va Tech also looks really good. Syracuse is known for causing trouble in the tourney with their zone. The ACC might be the most top-heavy conference

If your criteria is which conference puts the most in the tournament, or which puts the most through to the second weekend, I would probably say the Big Ten. They currently have 9 teams in the top 36 of the Net Rankings. Minnesota is other team that is projected to get in, currently a 10 seed by Lunardi. I wouldn't be shocked to see 5-6 Big Ten teams in the Sweet 16.

 

[Noahtogo24]

Yes they are. I took Gil's post as if he were including MD, with UM/MSU. I mean while else say, UM, MSU and MD are at the top....with 4-10 being a toss up? I mean, call me stupid, but I mean that implies MD is on the same level as UM/MSU...........And that just ain't so.

1,2- Michigan MSU

3-Terps

4-10- everyone else...

 

[Tigerocker]

I don’t disagree. Duke, UVA, UNC, VT and FSU are all capable of sweet 16 or better. Cuse, UL, and NCSt aren’t bad either. That’s why they’re the best conference. The bottom is really bad. BC, Wake, GT, and Canes are garbage.

Same with SEC, we just aren’t as good at the top, and maybe not as bad at the bottom. UT, UK, and Aub are all capable of Sweet 16 or better. Our worst teams are probably A&M, UGA, Arky, SC and Mizzou.

Not trying to homer it up but LSU is very capable of Sweet 16 and even winning the whole conference. UT stands out as the best team by a good margin but the next 3 could go to either UK,AU or LSU.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

word. I just thought it was worth mentioning since you cut off at 14 seasons but if you'd gone 17 seasons there'd be 5 more F4's. The Big 12 hasn't been good in the elite eight for some reason, KU included. I know KSU, OU, UT, and Baylor have been to a handful of elite 8's. in the last 10 or so years.

Its tough to evaluate based solely on a single elimination tournament. Michigan State reached the final four in 2015 but they weren't a very good team and were clearly not close to Wisconsin, UK, and Duke. On the other hand there are some great teams that don't even reach the final four.

The point is if you have to go back 17 years to get your second final four outside of Kansas then the conference hasn’t been good in March outside of Kansas.


And that one single final four in that span was a 44 point loss.

 

[kelley2403]

Not trying to homer it up but LSU is very capable of Sweet 16 and even winning the whole conference. UT stands out as the best team by a good margin but the next 3 could go to either UK,AU or LSU.

Please lord don’t let Auburn win the SEC. I don’t want to look at Pearl’s Soprano looking like face on tv.

 

[KisteK]

As of 1/20 I like
ACC
B1G
B12
SEC
BE
P12
AAC

RPI (RIP) likes
B12
B1g
SEC
BE
ACC
AAC
P12

Torvik likes
B1G
B12
ACC
SEC
BE
AAC
P12

I get that the metrics show the AAC > P12, but I can only watch 2 or 3 teams from the AAC. P12 games are late, less options to watch hoop, kids are sleep, and this season especially, games are a toss up. There's, like, 2 or 3 teams I will not watch.

Not the prettiest basketball, but neither is the AAC. And if you ain't pretty, you'd better have Bill Walton.