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Prosperity gospel

Churches should be taxed no questions asked

Not happening.

If you tax churches, you have to tax all non-profit organizations. The bigger issue, though, is are we going to subject churches to audits and regulations? Are we really going to make regulations which impact the free exercise of religion? There needs to be a separation of church from state. The government shouldn't have a say in a church's accounting practices and what constitutes as a legitimate business expense.

Also, these megachurches that most of us agree are scandalous, could easily absorb the taxes. Heck, they might even recklessly spend, so that the tax liability is greatly reduced. It's the smaller churches, the ones which are actually tied to the communities, which would take the biggest hit. Many of these churches are running on very tight budgets. If you're looking on closing a significant number of churches, then yes, this might be a good policy to implement.
 
I attended a mega church when my wife and I were vacationing in Branson. Right before the offering they announced that you could donate to the building fund by putting building on the info line of your check, or you could donate to the outreach fund to help missionaries....or you could donate to the gas fund to keep their private plane up and running. They seriously had a gas fund that they wanted people to donate to.
btw.....this is one of my favorite last week tonight with John Oliver. I don't like a lot of what he does.....his constant bashing of president trump has forced me to stop watching his program.....but his segment on megachurches is pretty good.
Holy shit, Ive never spent one second watching any of these people. Thats not even disguised!!! How in the world do people fall for this?
 
@Quavarius got hustled by Joel Osteen for a while?

Ya'll don't let these evangelical car salesmen con you. As soon as I walk into one of these new mega churches that are popping up everywhere. My skepticism is triggered. My parents go to one and I go sometimes with them. They want me there all the time but as UK alum Patrick Patterson once said about a certain elite ACC coach. "I am not feeling them".
 
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Anyone else familiar with this? Anyone here a believer? Anyone here blown away by this?

There is this entire thing within Christianity (usually as part of the evangelical movement) called the Prosperity gospel.

Basically it says that if you are a good Christian you will get material goods and wealth, and in order to get material goods you have to give money to pastors and other representatives of God, and then God will give you more money and stuff because part of the deal is to get rid of poverty.

A number of the megachurches support this idea... Joel Osteen is one of the most famous, but there are a bunch of others who do.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017...steen-believes-prayer-can-make-you-rich-trump

Thoughts?
 
Completely a good reason to ditch him. I thought less of him since that point. If he really was the person he claims to be and puts out in the media, he should have opened his doors immediately with open arms.

Agreed!
 
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@Quavarius got hustled by Joel Osteen for a while?

Ya'll don't let these evangelical car salesmen con you. As soon as I walk into one of these new mega churches that are popping up everywhere. My skepticism is triggered. My parents go to one and I go sometimes with them. They want me there all the time but as UK alum Patrick Patterson once said about a certain elite ACC coach. "I am not feeling them".

Dude is a great motivational speaker, can't deny that. But, he didn't practice what he preach in a time of need.

I'm just glad K didn't write about P. Pat in his book calling him a liar like another ACC coach did as the player went on to Michigan State.
 
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I just became coherent and there's a shell game in front of me.

4 roses, opium flowers, and cannabis,

yeah, this is a test. I'll be back later. tonight for the game.
 
I just became coherent and there's a shell game in front of me.

4 roses, opium flowers, and cannabis,

yeah, this is a test. I'll be back later. tonight for the game.
giphy.gif
 
Dude is a great motivational speaker, can't deny that. But, he didn't practice what he preach in a time of need.

I'm just glad K didn't write about P. Pat in his book calling him a liar like another ACC coach did as the player went on to Michigan State.
Yea Roy dodged a bullet with Roe. Guy was always injured and didn't pan out nearly as well as his HS ranking. We don't pay him to miss on 5 star recruits. So glad the kid went flip flop on Roy.

I don't get lost as much in someones presence speaking as much as the words used.
 
"Come sit on my knee and tell me what you want for Christmas, you cute little acute!"

But seriously, that's a good thing to do. We have a woman near here who does that... you "adopt" a group of kids and buy their Christmas list for them. My father in law goes NUTS... some kid asked for an e-reader and he went and got like some top of the line iPad.

Yikes
 
I've never understood the smug sense of superiority displayed by atheists. You think religion is stupid? Fine, you can believe that. But you do realize that neither you or I can prove the origins of life? A religious person could scoff at atheists in a similar manner, simplify their beliefs in a very unflattering way. Something like this...

StupidAtheistBeliefs.jpg

Not trying to be smug. Obviously you haven't studied religions. You have something that can't be confirmed or denied. Logical, educated, clear thinking says bullshit lol Hell you can't even prove Jesus was real...
 
Not trying to be smug. Obviously you haven't studied religions. You have something that can't be confirmed or denied. Logical, educated, clear thinking says bullshit lol Hell you can't even prove Jesus was real...

You're able to reach conclusions about my study of theology through one paragraph? Impressive.. And maybe I can't flat-out prove that he existed, but there are plenty of extra-biblical sources. How about historians like Josephus and Tacitus? Or Mara bar Serapion? Or the Talmud? If you're going to say that logic prevails in assuming Christianity is gibberish nonsense, then wouldn't it also be logical that theories like the Big Bang are also non-sense? How sensible is it that nothing came from nothing?
 
Not trying to be smug. Obviously you haven't studied religions. You have something that can't be confirmed or denied. Logical, educated, clear thinking says bullshit lol Hell you can't even prove Jesus was real...

Just for kicks and giggles, l'll mention one interesting things about theology. In Genesis 1, we're all familiar with God creating the heavens and the earth, and so forth. But did you know the Hebrew word for create, bara, doesn't mean to create something out of nothing? It more appropriately means to organize, the same way a man might organize materials to "create" a vehicle.

This kind of seems to be in alignment with the Law of Conservation of Mass, which states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. God was not creating ex nihilo, he was simply organizing matter.
 
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Megachurches are a huge scam. Do they have a great message every sunday about being a good person----100%. Do they keep people in tune with whats really important in life----100%. Do most of their messages pertain to being good to all and advance civility---100%. Then they start asking for money b/c you know, god wanted bose speakers, fancy fountains, wifi, blue tooth prayer headsets and for the pastor to drive a g wagon.
I guess I've visited churches that qualify as megachurches. I didn't feel pressed for money or that they were scams, per se, though something never felt right...

I don't begrudge churches overhead and an operating budget, but it has to be relative to outreach, charity, helping the community, etc.

Great message? Agree.
Keep people in tune? As far as speaking it and celebrating it, I agree, but I've also found so much joyousness to be a form of patting ourselves on the back, which distracts from serving.
Good to all and advancing civility? Eh. There's a lot of lip service to that, but the broadness of it can become superficial, obscuring the ability to target specific needs as well. It's kind of like how the broad truth of "all lives matter" misses the point of addressing select communities where that mantra doesn't appear to be functioning.
 
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If I'm going to a mega church, it is 100% going to be the potters house.


Song semi related

 
My aunt convinced her family to move to Arkansas for this guy and his church. Before my uncle realized it was a scam. They believed in the whole prosperity makes you more Christian mumbo jumbo.
 
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Anyone else familiar with this? Anyone here a believer? Anyone here blown away by this?

There is this entire thing within Christianity (usually as part of the evangelical movement) called the Prosperity gospel.

Basically it says that if you are a good Christian you will get material goods and wealth, and in order to get material goods you have to give money to pastors and other representatives of God, and then God will give you more money and stuff because part of the deal is to get rid of poverty.

A number of the megachurches support this idea... Joel Osteen is one of the most famous, but there are a bunch of others who do.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017...steen-believes-prayer-can-make-you-rich-trump

Thoughts?

That doesn’t sound like any Christian theology I’ve ever heard.
 
I'm a big fan of what the Methodist church does. If there are people in need their organization is almost always the first on the ground doing actual work. I'm a bigger believer in me giving my money to people I know are in need though. So I give to the church some and give to certain people some (homeless, angel tree, tipping, etc...). The prosperity gospel is not something I'm down with. It is pretty much just preying on the desperate.

Creflo Dollar was the guy I remember from way back who was into this.
 
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That doesn’t sound like any Christian theology I’ve ever heard.
It's everywhere, and I've seen no sign that it's slowing down at all. That's troubling in its own right; scarier is that so many of the loudest, most visible evangelicals have fallen for it completely, but not in the brainwashed sense -- more in the rationalizing personal desire sense.
 
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I've never understood the smug sense of superiority displayed by atheists. You think religion is stupid? Fine, you can believe that. But you do realize that neither you or I can prove the origins of life? A religious person could scoff at atheists in a similar manner, simplify their beliefs in a very unflattering way. Something like this...

StupidAtheistBeliefs.jpg

Careful with the generalizations.
 
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I have a number of friends who are atheist. Some are really hardcore in their hatred of all things Christian. While it doens't make much sense to me why they dislike something they don't believe in I enjoy the discussions we have, mainly because it frustrates them a little that I understand the reasons they have for feeling the way they do about religion in general. I kind of share their beliefs in a lot of ways.
 
It's everywhere, and I've seen no sign that it's slowing down at all. That's troubling in its own right; scarier is that so many of the loudest, most visible evangelicals have fallen for it completely, but not in the brainwashed sense -- more in the rationalizing personal desire sense.

Yep... super widespread.

https://religioninpublic.blog/2017/...e-prosperity-gospel-heres-what-the-data-says/

Only real pattern is that generally poor people are way more likely to believe in it.
 
I have a number of friends who are atheist. Some are really hardcore in their hatred of all things Christian. While it doens't make much sense to me why they dislike something they don't believe in I enjoy the discussions we have, mainly because it frustrates them a little that I understand the reasons they have for feeling the way they do about religion in general. I kind of share their beliefs in a lot of ways.

As someone somewhere on the atheist/agnostic spectrum, I have to say... While it might not be okay to say, I do sometimes find myself annoyed by the idea that some religious people have some moral high ground or authority that I lack because of their religious beliefs, that they have some understanding go truth that i do not have, and I really get pissed when they try to legislate them, especially because they are ultimately (and sorry of this sounds bad)nonsensical beliefs to me.

That accounts for some small irritation I sometimes feel about religion, and may account for some of the more antagonistic views of some atheists/agnostics. Not excusing it, just theorizing on where it comes from.
 
I've always heard that applied to cigarettes and beer because they know the poor will still pay for them.

I have a hard time believing that paying for beer is stupid.

Iirc that is slang for the lottery... the stupid people tax. Right? Anyone back me up on that?
 
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