OAD poll

[FaithPlusOne]

1/D is a nice shot in the arm that can put a really good group of returning players over the hump. That said, I wouldn't want to put multiple classes of mostly 1/D players back to back to back because you eventually become completely reliant on getting them, and every year seems like a reset.

I'd go with 1-2 of those guys with a group of good players with experience.

 

[toonces11]

Is there a list of guys who everyone thought were one and dones and didn't develop fast enough in their first season.

 

[BigBlueCatNation]

Duke’s insane class will be the ultimate litmus test, imo. K nearly handpicked the best. Win it all or stfu.

I think Kentucky has something to say about that, too

 

[toonces11]

I think Kentucky has something to say about that, too

Kentucky has had an embarrassment of riches. If some of those guys would stick around I guarantee they would become worlds better. Tough to pass up a possible paycheck though. As a bball fan first---not whats best for the players earning potential----it would have been really cool to see some career stats on some of these guys. I wish it was more common to have some of these elite OAD's surprise everyone and stay for 3 or 4 years. I bet records would fall like crazy.

 

[bignish]

Kentucky has had an embarrassment of riches. If some of those guys would stick around I guarantee they would become worlds better. Tough to pass up a possible paycheck though. As a bball fan first---not whats best for the players earning potential----it would have been really cool to see some career stats on some of these guys. I wish it was more common to have some of these elite OAD's surprise everyone and stay for 3 or 4 years. I bet records would fall like crazy.

It's mindblowing that guys like Michael Jordan, David Robinson, Grant Hill, Rasheed Wallace, Tim Duncan, Chris Paul, etc. stuck around for so many years in college. That's why the level of play back then is light years ahead of where its at now with either inexperienced freshmen or upperclassmen who lack talent.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

I think Kentucky has something to say about that, too

Is it too early for @bignish to start an avatar bet? It will be "the national champion will come out of one of these three. UK, Duke or KU."

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Wasn't Virginia the superior team?

Virginia was the superior team, but that day UVA could not get close to beating them.

 

[mebeblue2]

every year a lot of senior laden experienced teams fall in the first weekend

i will take talent over experience every time
it would be great to have both, but this is not the 80's

teams that do not get elite talent have to hope they hit lighting in a bottle with a group of kids
after their run they fall back to earth for the next 20-30 years

 

[829305]

I'd go with 1-2 of those guys with a group of good players with experience.

Sounds like the Heels this coming season. Much higher on em than I was this past season. Roy could have a solid shot at #4.

 

[AWilli6995]

every year a lot of senior laden experienced teams fall in the first weekend

i will take talent over experience every time
it would be great to have both, but this is not the 80's

teams that do not get elite talent have to hope they hit lighting in a bottle with a group of kids
after their run they fall back to earth for the next 20-30 years

Hasn't happened to UNC but like you said, a mixture of both would be ideal.

 

[Blue_White_KY]

As a Kentucky fan, I am tired of the OAD! I knew this team last year wasn’t winning ish. I would take 2 maybe 3 top 10 recruits on a team of 5* players ranked 15-25 and some top 4* players who were JR/SR.
Give me a formula that sets a roster like that every 2-3 years and I will be extremely happy with the out comes.

 

[mebeblue2]

As a Kentucky fan, I am tired of the OAD! I knew this team last year wasn’t winning ish. I would take 2 maybe 3 top 10 recruits on a team of 5* players ranked 15-25 and some top 4* players who were JR/SR.
Give me a formula that sets a roster like that every 2-3 years and I will be extremely happy with the out comes.

in today's landscape that formula does not exist

i do not care if we have a completely new team every year
i just want a team that can compete for the title each and every year
i do not want to have to hope for "lightning in a bottle" once every decade or two or three

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

i just want a team that can compete for the title each and every year

That's the question here. I just don't see how we can say that starting 4-5 freshmen gives you the best chance at winning a championship. And what are we considering competing for championships each and every year?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

That's the question here. I just don't see how we can say that starting 4-5 freshmen gives you the best chance at winning a championship. And what are we considering competing for championships each and every year?

I think if you're in a P5 conference and you win either the regular season championship or the tournament, then you have a legit shot at winning it all.

UVA may have lost in the first round, but that's how the NCAA tournament goes. They still had a team that could compete for a championship.

 

[mebeblue2]

That's the question here. I just don't see how we can say that starting 4-5 freshmen gives you the best chance at winning a championship. And what are we considering competing for championships each and every year?

2014 UK started 5 freshman and made it to the championship game
how many teams that are a one or two seed with an experienced team do not make the FF or even the E8 every year?

i do not think just because you have second tier talent with experience gives you any better shot at competing for a championship each and every year

as i stated some teams "hit lighting in a bottle" with a core group and after they leave it is 1-3 decades before they have another team that has a realistic chance to win it all

 

[Silent Banjo]

The recent success of teams not employing an OAD model suggests that schools have adjusted to and counteracted the talent gap. By loading your lineup with very talented but not surefire OADs you have a cohesive team structure that offsets the individual brilliance of an OAD player. Occasionally a team with transcendent OAD talent (Anthony Davis comes to mind) can meet that challenge, but it now looks more like a rarity than an expectation. Coaches like Jay Wright and Roy Williams are now convincing players who might be debating to leave as an OAD to remain in school and become a definite lottery pick the following year or two down the road, which has led to title dividends.

 

[sdave]

I take experienced talent all day everyday with 1-2 OAD mixed in.

This

 

[sdave]

I’ll take a bunch of 4 stars that will stay 3 years. A a few 3 stars that will contribute 4 years and one one and done to get over the top.

 

[KisteK]

I want the best talent! I'm a lil different!

The best future talent or the most readily available talent?
bc I'd Jalen Brunson over Sexton, Young, SGA, Duval
for cbb..

===============
My answer wasn't an option. One or two mixed in with talented vets would be ideal imo.

 

[nitewing]

Iowa showed what happens when you have way to much youth, they had the 4* players just not enough experience. these were the 4* players by ESPN.
PG SO Bohannon just outside their top 100
SG RSSO Moss just outside their top 100
PF SO Cook #38 overall
C FR Garza top 100
RS'd PG McCaffery top 100 because of injuries and being hospitalized he RS'd.

most of these are 4 year players, Cook and Moss both declared for the draft but neither signed a agent.
this team will add a very under rated player in 4* 6'7 2/3 Wieskamp. #71 by ESPN and #42 by Rivals.

so we will see how having 5 4* players starting will do.

 

[WojoRising]

Iowa showed what happens when you have way to much youth, they had the 4* players just not enough experience. these were the 4* players by ESPN.
PG SO Bohannon just outside their top 100
SG RSSO Moss just outside their top 100
PF SO Cook #38 overall
C FR Garza top 100
RS'd PG McCaffery top 100 because of injuries and being hospitalized he RS'd.

most of these are 4 year players, Cook and Moss both declared for the draft but neither signed a agent.
this team will add a very under rated player in 4* 6'7 2/3 Wieskamp. #71 by ESPN and #42 by Rivals.

so we will see how having 5 4* players starting will do.

Worst of both worlds

 

[nitewing]

Worst of both worlds

combing the inexperience of youth with no upperclassmen to lead the way is a recipe for disaster. this season they will have a SR leader in the BT 6th MOY as a SO who will be a RSSR this next season.
there also will be 6 SO's that will be upperclassmen.

 

[jhmossy]

I don't really have anything to add about whether the OAD or upperclassmen model gives you a better chance at a championship. Both models have won championships so it's a pretty worthless argument.

I am glad that UVA doesn't endorse the OAD model though. I personally love watching our players grow in the program over 4-5 years. I love our senior nights. I love the continuity in the program. I love the fact that our players are student-athletes. There's no way I would want a team full of OADs. Just my personal opinion though.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I don't really have anything to add about whether the OAD or upperclassmen model gives you a better chance at a championship. Both models have won championships so it's a pretty worthless argument.

I am glad that UVA doesn't endorse the OAD model though. I personally love watching our players grow in the program over 4-5 years. I love our senior nights. I love the continuity in the program. I love the fact that our players are student-athletes. There's no way I would want a team full of OADs. Just my personal opinion though.

How many OAD's would you take?

 

[jhmossy]

How many OAD's would you take?

Probably 1 at most. UVA needs a guy that can just take over a game on the offensive end when things are stagnant. But that OAD would also have to buy in to our defensive philosophy and be able to learn the packline in a shortened time frame. The likelihood of us finding one who is willing to do that is slim to none.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Probably 1 at most. UVA needs a guy that can just take over a game on the offensive end when things are stagnant. But that OAD would also have to buy in to our defensive philosophy and be able to learn the packline in a shortened time frame. The likelihood of us finding one who is willing to do that is slim to none.

I can't remember his name,but he was on path to be OAD. Hunter?

 

[jhmossy]

I can't remember his name,but he was on path to be OAD. Hunter?

Hunter redshirted last year before playing this year. So technically wouldn't be a OAD even if he does leave this year.

 

[nitewing]

Iowa has had just OND player and that was Ricky Davis in Dr. Tom's last season in 1997-98. that season Iowa finished 2nd in the BT and got beat by UConn to move on to the Elite 8 and eventually win the National Championship.

Ricky was the type that could and did take over a game.

to me though getting a couple top 50 recruits and 3-4 other top 100 players with the glue guys [3*] players will be enough.

even the top 50 players will stay 3-4 years.

 

[mebeblue2]

I don't really have anything to add about whether the OAD or upperclassmen model gives you a better chance at a championship. Both models have won championships so it's a pretty worthless argument.

I am glad that UVA doesn't endorse the OAD model though. I personally love watching our players grow in the program over 4-5 years. I love our senior nights. I love the continuity in the program. I love the fact that our players are student-athletes. There's no way I would want a team full of OADs. Just my personal opinion though.

i have no problem with getting OAD players, just win baby

to get that type of player that can take over a game you almost have to have OAD players

do you get frustrated year after year not making the FF when you are a top seed?

you are one of my favorite dudes on here please do not take my question as trolling you

 

[jhmossy]

i have no problem with getting OAD players, just win baby

to get that type of player that can take over a game you almost have to have OAD players

do you get frustrated year after year not making the FF when you are a top seed?

you are one of my favorite dudes on here please do not take my question as trolling you

Of course I get frustrated. I don't see how even the most reasonable fan wouldn't be frustrated by that. But it's pretty much the only knock on our program. For me, choking in the NCAA tourney doesn't negate what we accomplish in the regular season or the ACC tourney. If we keep earning top seeds, we'll break through eventually.

 

[Dattier]

We can cherry-pick examples of teams to fit whatever conclusion we want. It doesn't seem reasonable to go w/ all OAD or zero OAD as ideal in this era.

At the college level, "talent" isn't strictly "NBA potential." There are plenty of seniors w/ no realistic shot at the NBA who outplay OAD lottery picks on any given night.

So many good players only stay the one year that you're conceding a ton of talent if you go w/ 0-1 OAD. If in years past you could win w/ a freshman starter, there's no good reason to go w/ none now, now that the talent is so heavily weighted there, other than in protest.

 

[nitewing]

each year there are a minimum of 25 5* players. out of that annual 25 5* players there might be 10 at most and more like 5 that really fit the 1 n Done mode.

to put this into perspective there are just 32 1st round NBA Picks that are guaranteed a contract no more no less
the next 32 picks in the NBA Draft have to hope they make the team to get a contract and that is a 1 year deal in the 700,000 to 800,000 dollar range.

after that its the D-League where the salaries are in the 20,000 to 25,000 dollar range.

my opinion on the 1 n Dones they only benefit a very select few. sorry I just don't see this success.

 

[MOX-MOX]

wouldnt even be having the argument if it cal hadnt brought a ton of top recruits to KENTUCKY. Heard no one griping of one and done before that and heard cal was beloved by the media.

Just cant stand it that kentuckians have 100 years of winning basketball tradition.Doesnt matter if uk hires sister jean as chaplain the media will hate her too. Doesnt matter whos the coach.

Oh, but according to the media and rival fans, arguing with cal or ky fans make them automatically objective and non biased. They have no problem throwing around their "conspiracy theories" saying ky fans wanting to move on from tubby because of the color of his skin, even though he was fired from minnesota and memphis.

If you can play, you can play. An all freshmen team can win it, hasnt cals final fours with young teams proven that.

BUT, if you get CHEATING calls like this, NOT missed calls or it was bad on both sides, CHEATING calls like these, doesnt matter how many 4 yr players or shooters or players that want to be there because they arent good enough to go pro you have. When you have refs that are at reffing clinics say "cal is not normal" makes one wonder why the heck cal hasnt retired yet.

If this call and this game doesnt smell like fish, then YOU are the biased unobjective one or you need to go watch more games in person and turn off the sound on espn games and learn the game instead of listening to pat forde, "because he gets paid to cover basketball, so he knows!"

 

[Dattier]

wouldnt even be having the argument if it cal hadnt brought a ton of top recruits to KENTUCKY. Heard no one griping of one and done before that and heard cal was beloved by the media.

Just cant stand it that kentuckians have 100 years of winning basketball tradition.Doesnt matter if uk hires sister jean as chaplain the media will hate her too. Doesnt matter whos the coach.

Oh, but according to the media and rival fans, arguing with cal or ky fans make them automatically objective and non biased. They have no problem throwing around their "conspiracy theories" saying ky fans wanting to move on from tubby because of the color of his skin, even though he was fired from minnesota and memphis.

If you can play, you can play. An all freshmen team can win it, hasnt cals final fours with young teams proven that.

BUT, if you get CHEATING calls like this, NOT missed calls or it was bad on both sides, CHEATING calls like these, doesnt matter how many 4 yr players or shooters or players that want to be there because they arent good enough to go pro you have. When you have refs that are at reffing clinics say "cal is not normal" makes one wonder why the heck cal hasnt retired yet.

If this call and this game doesnt smell like fish, then YOU are the biased unobjective one or you need to go watch more games in person and turn off the sound on espn games and learn the game instead of listening to pat forde, "because he gets paid to cover basketball, so he knows!"

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

wouldnt even be having the argument if it cal hadnt brought a ton of top recruits to KENTUCKY. Heard no one griping of one and done before that and heard cal was beloved by the media.

Just cant stand it that kentuckians have 100 years of winning basketball tradition.Doesnt matter if uk hires sister jean as chaplain the media will hate her too. Doesnt matter whos the coach.

Oh, but according to the media and rival fans, arguing with cal or ky fans make them automatically objective and non biased. They have no problem throwing around their "conspiracy theories" saying ky fans wanting to move on from tubby because of the color of his skin, even though he was fired from minnesota and memphis.

If you can play, you can play. An all freshmen team can win it, hasnt cals final fours with young teams proven that.

BUT, if you get CHEATING calls like this, NOT missed calls or it was bad on both sides, CHEATING calls like these, doesnt matter how many 4 yr players or shooters or players that want to be there because they arent good enough to go pro you have. When you have refs that are at reffing clinics say "cal is not normal" makes one wonder why the heck cal hasnt retired yet.

If this call and this game doesnt smell like fish, then YOU are the biased unobjective one or you need to go watch more games in person and turn off the sound on espn games and learn the game instead of listening to pat forde, "because he gets paid to cover basketball, so he knows!"

View embedded media

My favorite part of this rant is the part where you accuse others of having conspiracy theories. Thanks Mox, you never disappoint.

 

[viviajm]

Do we honestly think that starting 4-5 freshmen is a championship winning formula?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Some fans are saying "we don't got no OAD's", therefore, it's better.

Some fans haven't won a championship in a long time.

Except everyone that's doing it the right way. They're not saying that and just getting it done.

What do you want from me?

I'm doing you a favor here.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Any fresh thoughts?

 

[Sevro]

Any fresh thoughts?

Is there an elite freshman playing in this year’s FF?

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Is there an elite freshman playing in this year’s FF?

Not that comes to mind.