Refs need to take questions after the games from the media.
Thanks UConn.
Thanks UConn.
Nova vs Uconn game thread
- Thread starter Noahtogo24
- Start date
A player pushing off should absolutely be a foul. It’s called a push off. We already have that rule. We simply don’t need the charge rule to exist. Why do we want to reward a defender for standing there with his hands over his junk?
I don’t like it but I don’t like making all the rules in any sport benefit just the offense.
If refs called push-offs / out of control players running into guys maybe it wouldn’t be necessary. But they rarely if ever call that without someone hitting the floor.
Them not properly executing some rules isn’t a reason to have some other crappy rule. Push offs are already a foul. Call them. Hooks are already a foul. Call them. Three in the key is already illegal. Call it.
There is just not a reason to reward any player in any sport for falling down. In what world is it athletic or a good defense to fall down?
Give defenders the ability to rise up and contest at the rim with some body contact and not have it be a foul. They shouldn’t be allowed to hack arms, but if they stay vertical that should be fine.
Are you against a player getting KNOCKED down?There is a diference...
Do away with the charge? Yeah----sure. Lets just let the offense run right over dudes----I mean what could go wrong?
There is a lot I don't like about the charge-----but its a neded aaspect....And there are things I do not like about a block call----but it to is needed. If we get rid of the charge-----I mean, we might as well play games at Rucker....
Hence the creation of the flop.....
Best advice I was ever given, was by a gentleman named Jim Roberts----Long time NCAA official. And now a very good friend. First camp I went to, first thing he says:
"fellas the best call, is a no call........". I believe that. TO many officials see contact, and feel the need to call fouls.....
Look, the game is fast----its physical, chaotic, etc, etc....IF the game were called as the book is written----rosters would have to resemble football rosters...Its a job that is very subjective, calls for a ton of common sense, and very good judgement...LIke calling a "moving screen" off the ball, that has absolutely zero impact on the play....Just leave that alone. Eventually, that dude is gonna give you the opportunity to call it, when itd needed.
Look we play pretty good defense. Refs are not calling push offs. Guys can fully extend that off-arm and push off. They just pretend it’s a forearm or like a swim move type motion. Unless someone falls down they are not calling it.
I already told you....
If your team is on a run, makes a great play, needs a stop----and the coach turns to the crowd, encouraging them to "get loud"---to HELP the team----That is 100% fine....BUt that is not what Hurley was doing. Here is the rule.
Article 2: Bench decorum....
F. Inciting undesirable crowd reactions...
Hurely knew exactly WTF he was doing----he also knew it was against the rules of bench decorum---But he's a fukin prick, and didn't care.
Its the rule....YOu get hit with a technical, and do what Hurely did,there's not an official in CBB that's not gonna bang with #2....
Ya'll get mad at the "refs"----Thinned skin, this or that----which is hilarious. But what you do not understand,is he(official) was simply following the rule....
It doesn't take a genius to know what Hurely's intentions were....
I mind them not calling obvious stuff on the offensive player that impacts the play. Until that happens I'm for taking charges since its the only way to get fouls called on an offensive player.
Texas's Cunningham hip checked our guy like a hockey player as he went for the loose ball going out of bounds. Refs didn't call anything. Yet our guy has a new rib injury.
I don’t buy that people will just get trucked. If a guy is on a fast break, we shouldn’t just be standing flat footed in his way. Jump up and protect the rim.
If you’re defending someone in the half court, move your feet and use his momentum to carry him out of position. Or trail from behind and poke the ball away or block it from behind.
And again, if an offensive player extends their arm or uses their shoulder to create space, that would still be a foul. We don’t need to have the charge rule for that to be a foul.
So, to recap...
The Hurley technical was very questionable
The Collin Gillespie charge was also very questionable. He barely, barely even brushed him on the side. And the ball was off of Cole's hand. If I was a ref, I'd issue a flop warning.
I would also argue that the tie up between Gillespie and Cole was controversial. I thought Gillespie got fouled before the tie up occurred. To be fair, Nova kind of did choke. 4 point lead with 30 seconds left and they missed a 1 and 1 - and got outscored 6-0 in the final 20 seconds.
The Hurley technical was very questionable
The Collin Gillespie charge was also very questionable. He barely, barely even brushed him on the side. And the ball was off of Cole's hand. If I was a ref, I'd issue a flop warning.
I would also argue that the tie up between Gillespie and Cole was controversial. I thought Gillespie got fouled before the tie up occurred. To be fair, Nova kind of did choke. 4 point lead with 30 seconds left and they missed a 1 and 1 - and got outscored 6-0 in the final 20 seconds.
Section 4, Article 6 also says you can be assessed a technical for using profanity. And sometimes players or coaches are given technicals for bad language, but it's almost always excessive. If it was enforced every time an expletive came out of someone's mouth, walk-ons would be playing almost every game.
I guess the difficulty is, how do you distinguish the spirit of the law from the letter of the law?
Horsehit charge call, the guy was NOT set and it was from the side. Complete BS that will probably cost me a chance to make history in the pick ‘em this week.
IMO it’s targeting in college football. The rule is really poorly written, the enforcement is inconsistent at best, and the punishment (ejection) is asinine when many times all the guy did was attempt to make a tackle and the ball carrier dipped or lowered his head at the last second.
And similar to charging, we don’t even need the rule. If someone makes a dirty play, we already have unnecessary roughness. Why not just reserve it for the extreme cases when someone deliberately uses their helmet as a spear and call it unnecessary roughness?
Oh and the review aspect of it is just mind numbingly slow and kills momentum in the game.
College sports was way more fun in the 70s and 80s. Not necessarily better from a talent or viewing ability. But def more fun.
Can't argue with that. Consistency matters. And I would say the majority of the time the guys are simply trying to make a tackle. Seems like there's a targeting ejection almost every game. I remember the Louisville/Ole Miss game had 4 ejections.
my issue with the block/charge call is that, in college, the refs seem to have decided that the tie goes to the defender. It seems to my eyes that college refs LOVE calling charges. I've often wondered if they get a bonus in their check for each charge they call...or maybe it's an ego thing like they are trying to show us how great they are at reffing by how they are able to spot all these charges on the court.
I would like to see a new mindset where refs are told to give the benefit of the doubt to the offensive player. I want the game to evolve to the point where a defender has to take on a level of risk when they choose to set up for a charge rather than help defend at the rim. As it stands now there is no incentive for players to not look for charges all over the court. And I think that leads to an ugly looking unathletic unappealing game.
I would tell refs that to call a charge you need to make 100% sure the player is in 100% legit legal guarding position before making the call. As it stands now there is NO WAY the refs are using anything close to that standard.
Yes! All of this! Give the benefit of the doubt to the offensive player.
I hate, hate to see charges called when a player has launched and the defensive player simply slides his feet a little to ensure that he can fall down when the offensive player knocks/brushes into him. I see that given to the defender all the time. Absolute rubbish.
I saw Steph Curry play against Duke a few years back. I remember Curry had 4 personal fouls - and all 4 fouls were charges. Ridiculous.
"Can be..." is a key phrase. And also, is the profanity directed AT ME...
Example: I make a call........
Izzo: "God damn it Borden, that was fukin awful....
Me-----Yeah, yeah...
Profanity was used---I could "T" him up. It would certainly be within the rules.
Second example:
Izzo: "Borden, thats a shit call....You have been shit all night...
Me: BANG.....Tech. And pretty much 99% automatic.
See the difference? Same with players....If you direct the profanity TOWARDS an official, odds are really, really good you are getting T'd up.
With inciting, its a different animal, so to speak. His actions were clearly to incite the crowd----that is rather obvious...When this occurs, we are told---"Automatic"....Look, me personally, I'd rather walk over to Hurley and tell him to "cut the shit, Dan....You are not gonna show me up like that, with that type of horse shit....." BUT, via instructions not only from the NCAA, observers and Head of officials, that luxury is not given.....
Officials are graded/evaluated after every single game...Say thats me, and I pass on the 2nd "T"....Here's how that goes:
MIke(head of officials)---"Borden, why did you pass on that 2nd "T"? It was obvious he was inciting the crowd...
Me---I didn't think he was, TBH, Mike...
MIke----Really? Ok, then----Let me ask yo this, Borden. If you had not called the tech, do you think he claps at the crwod, then waves for then to get up?
Me----Crickets.....
Now, maybe I get a "red" falg here....Maybe not. But look, you get so many "red flags", and you start to lose points.....Now you might start costing yourself assignments....possible conference tourney, NCAAT assignments----Or maybe even your job; For the part, if you finish int he lower 20% grade wise, in your conference(s), usually you are not obtained as a conference official.
In instances like this, its not the official is being thinned skin, etc, etc....Or trying to show out----He's doing what he has been instructed to do, in that situation...
I have ZERO doubt Hurley's actions were b/c he was "T'd" up---None...Nadda...Zero. Its why he didn't go ape shit after being ejected---He knows the rule.
SOme of this fair--I think. A lot IMO is that most/some, maybe a lot, of fans, simply do not understand what a defender CAN DO, once he has established a legal guarding position----As in, HE CAN MOVE----and hell, he can even JUMP.
I ain't saying there haven't been some horseshit charge calls----there have. A shit ton. But there have also been a ton of horseshit blocking calls, that should have been charges.
Its a tough ass call to make, sometimes.....And sometimes, and hell its hapened to me, the play blows the **** up so quick, you simply miss the damn action, and now you are like---"Uh, oh...."---And then you just revert to what you last recalled on the play....That happens....Or you get straight lined, and maybe you miss the slight move under, aftetr the offensive player has left the floor....Or hell, maybe you are just having a bad night, or you just simply suck...
Look at the end of Uconn/Nova game----What do you have there? Defender is legal....He never moves, leans, etc, etc....Not from what I saw....Offensive player creates the contact.....BUT, b/c he tried and side step the defender, the contact was with the shoulder/arm, and not the torso/chest....It looks weird----not your normal, "to the chest contact", etc, etc....
So what do you call? Defender is set,in a legal guarding postion.....offense creates the contact.....
Play on? Block? Charge? Was there to much contact to allow a play on? Did the contact create any type of advantage/disadvantge? If not----you can let it go----right? Oh,but wait----There was a lot a contact----SO you have to call something, right?
In a play like that, you have 3 options: No call, block or charge....None of three are gonna be liked. No call, and folks will yell----"All that contact,and no foul"?
Charge----"But he hit him in the arm/shoulder...
Block---"He legal, set and waiting.....
Fun, fun.....
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