NBA Bubble Thread

GE Nole

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You would have Steph and Dray 2nd?? You are joking right? I wouldn't even have that combo in the top 5.
Best shooter in the world, one of the top 5 playmakers in the league, and one of the top 5 defenders in the league, who can also pass.
 

Big ol arms

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Best shooter in the world, one of the top 5 playmakers in the league, and one of the top 5 defenders in the league, who can also pass.
Draymond is a great 3rd star on a team. One of the best ever as far as being a 3rd glue guy option but just him and another star like Steph has proven to not go very well. He goes through horrible slumps when he has had to be counted on as the 2nd best player on the team.
 
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GE Nole

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Draymond is a great 3rd star on a team. One of the best ever as far as being a 3rd glue guy option but just him and another star like Steph has proven to not go very well. He goes through horrible slumps when he has had to be counted on as the 2nd best player on the team.
He can’t be counted on as the 2nd best SCORER on a team. That’s different than being the second best PLAYER.
 

Big ol arms

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He can’t be counted on as the 2nd best SCORER on a team. That’s different than being the second best PLAYER.
Yeah but you're not understanding. His passing and playmaking isn't even the same when there isn't someone else like a Klay or Durant to take pressure off. Surely you aren't saying it's his defense as enough to make them the 2nd best duo in the league. Im guessing you haven't watched the games where it was just Steph and Dray because of injuries. I don't have the record right off hand but it wasn't that good..that much i remember.
 
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GE Nole

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Yeah but you aren't understanding. His passing and playmaking isn't even the same when there isn't someone else like a Klay or Durant to take pressure off. Surely you aren't saying it's his defense as enough to make them the 2nd best duo in the league. Im guessing you haven't watched the games where it was just Steph and Dray because of injuries. I don't have the record right off hand but it was a losing record..that much i remember.
How many games is that, lol? One against the Raptors in the Finals? 4 this year?

Steph is the engine. His shooting is so much above even other good shooters, it elevates everyone else. When Durant was there they were something like 32-4 with Steph and no Durant, and like 28-20 or something with Durant and no Steph.
 

Big ol arms

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How many games is that, lol? One against the Raptors in the Finals? 4 this year?

Steph is the engine. His shooting is so much above even other good shooters, it elevates everyone else. When Durant was there they were something like 32-4 with Steph and no Durant, and like 28-20 or something with Durant and no Steph.
Wow, i don't even know what to tell you if you really believe they are the 2nd best duo. Good luck finding anyone in the world that knows basketball well, to agree with you there.
 
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dukedevilz

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Tatum took way too many low percentage shots in crunch time. I don't understand it. Frustrating. You can get those bush-league, contested 3-point shots - or unbalanced, turnaround jumpers anytime you want. Don't force it. Wonder how the Celtics are going to look once Gordon Hayward returns.
 

GE Nole

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Wow, i don't even know what to tell you if you really believe they are the 2nd best duo. Good luck finding anyone in the world that knows basketball well, to agree with you there.
A week or two ago most people on here laughed and called me a fool for even suggesting that Jokic was in the same league as AD, or that Jokic might be a top 10 player.
 
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Big ol arms

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A week or two ago most people on here laughed and called me a fool for even suggesting that Jokic was in the same league as AD, or that Jokic might be a top 10 player.
I didn't..i definitely agreed with you. You seem to know a good bit about basketball, which is why i was shocked when you mentioned this duo.
 
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ticket2ride04

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A week or two ago most people on here laughed and called me a fool for even suggesting that Jokic was in the same league as AD, or that Jokic might be a top 10 player.
To be fair, some of your takes are out there. You also said Embid was better than AD.

I want Jokic to be better because I don’t like the Lakers. But let’s see how they match up.
 

GE Nole

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I didn't..i definitely agreed with you. You seem to know a good bit about basketball, which is why i was shocked when you mentioned this duo.
After this week, I can definitely see myself revising it and having Jokic and Murray higher than Steph/Dray. And if you read the original post, I also said Jimmy and Bam were probably better.

So that right there could have Steph/Dray as low as 4th.

A lot of the other duos look great as names, but what have the actually produced? Harden and Westbrook? Lol, please. Giannis and Middleton? The couldn’t get out of the second round this year.

Kawhi and PG13? Sure, Kawhi is a top 3 player in the league but Paul George has been laughably bad when the lights get brighter. Honestly, Kawhi/Lowry is a duo I’d have in the top 3 if it still existed.

So when you start actually digging in and looking at results, you can find serious flaws with a lot of them. And the fact that Steph is in the duo makes a huge difference because he’s just on a completely different level as a perimeter shooter and floor spacer, which is where the modern game lives. It’s more of a statement about Steph than it is Dray. You’re focusing on the wrong guy.
 

GE Nole

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To be fair, some of your takes are out there. You also said Embid was better than AD.

I want Jokic to be better because I don’t like the Lakers. But let’s see how they match up.
The thing is, it’s not really about a one on one matchup. AD is a perfect fit for the Lakers, because of the freak of nature that is Lebron. The Lakers could very well win in 5, but that doesn’t mean AD owned Jokic individually.

Jokic controls the game for Denver. His passing, IQ, rebounding, floor spacing, and underrated defense (he’s not a shot blocker but his hoops IQ is so high he often rotates perfectly to cut off passing lanes or make steals) is what allows Denver to even be in this position.

When AD was THE man, he put up monster stats but the team wasn’t overly successful. That’s not true of Jokic. His mere presence and playmaking is what has allows Murray to explode, and guys like Gary Harris to be key role players.
 
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MGC_07

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After this week, I can definitely see myself revising it and having Jokic and Murray higher than Steph/Dray. And if you read the original post, I also said Jimmy and Bam were probably better.

So that right there could have Steph/Dray as low as 4th.

A lot of the other duos look great as names, but what have the actually produced? Harden and Westbrook? Lol, please. Giannis and Middleton? The couldn’t get out of the second round this year.

Kawhi and PG13? Sure, Kawhi is a top 3 player in the league but Paul George has been laughably bad when the lights get brighter. Honestly, Kawhi/Lowry is a duo I’d have in the top 3 if it still existed.

So when you start actually digging in and looking at results, you can find serious flaws with a lot of them. And the fact that Steph is in the duo makes a huge difference because he’s just on a completely different level as a perimeter shooter and floor spacer, which is where the modern game lives. It’s more of a statement about Steph than it is Dray. You’re focusing on the wrong guy.
People care more about name recognition and stats than actual success.

I will say, I’m not sure Draymond is now what he once was. In 2016 and 2017, when he was second team All NBA and DPOY I think he was easily a top 15 or so guy in the league. I just think his offense falling off has made him less valuable. In 2016 he shot 49 from the field and 39 from 3. In their last season with KD he shot 45 from the field and 29 from 3 on less shots per game. Him being a bad shooter really hurts his standings among the NBA IMO. He also just athletically has declined which has hurt his defense a bit.

I could totally see a world though where a healthy warriors team with him Steph and Klay are very good and he plays better. The trend would suggest otherwise though.
 

MGC_07

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Gary Harris and Jerami Grant has out scored Kawhi and Paul George last night.
 

GE Nole

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People care more about name recognition and stats than actual success.

I will say, I’m not sure Draymond is now what he once was. In 2016 and 2017, when he was second team All NBA and DPOY I think he was easily a top 15 or so guy in the league. I just think his offense falling off has made him less valuable. In 2016 he shot 49 from the field and 39 from 3. In their last season with KD he shot 45 from the field and 29 from 3 on less shots per game. Him being a bad shooter really hurts his standings among the NBA IMO. He also just athletically has declined which has hurt his defense a bit.

I could totally see a world though where a healthy warriors team with him Steph and Klay are very good and he plays better. The trend would suggest otherwise though.
I think it’s fair to point out his shooting declines. Really significant.

But this past year is hard to judge because it was basically a G-League roster at times.

Based on their proven record, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as of now. I’m also very willing to drop them way down if they continue the downward trend by February of next year.
 
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MGC_07

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I think it’s fair to point out his shooting declines. Really significant.

But this past year is hard to judge because it was basically a G-League roster at times.

Based on their proven record, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as of now. I’m also very willing to drop them way down if they continue the downward trend by February of next year.
Agreed, and completely understandable. Whether you think Klay or Draymond is the 3rd best player, the Warriors definitely have the best 3rd best player in the league.

Draymond is the kind of guy that will not make a bad team good, but he will make a good team better. Total opposite of Westbrook in that sense.
 
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GE Nole

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Agreed, and completely understandable. Whether you think Klay or Draymond is the 3rd best player, the Warriors definitely have the best 3rd best player in the league.

Draymond is the kind of guy that will not make a bad team good, but he will make a good team better. Total opposite of Westbrook in that sense.
Extremely well said. And it helps that Steph changes the geometry of defending GSW.
 
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MGC_07

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Extremely well said. And it helps that Steph changes the geometry of defending GSW.
Curry has somewhat of a “gravitational pull” when he’s out on the court. He’s such a threat that it drags defenders towards him and away from others, which opens up the floor for everyone else.

The Warriors run so much off ball for Curry through Draymond and others that it makes him more dangerous too. Defenders have to stay on this automatic shooter running all around the court. He’s easily the second best PG of all time IMO.
 
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JimboBBN

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Sigh. I will try and enjoy the ECF but the Lakers are going to run over Denver and whoever comes from the east. Probably no drama at all. Damn you, Clippers.
 

GE Nole

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Sigh. I will try and enjoy the ECF but the Lakers are going to run over Denver and whoever comes from the east. Probably no drama at all. Damn you, Clippers.
This feels like one of those posts we look at in two weeks with a different perspective.
 
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IUfanBorden

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I can’t agree with you on Harden and Westbrook. Westbrook is just so inefficient...I think they actually play better without him. And Harden isn’t in the same tier as guys like Lebron, Steph, Kawhi, so he can’t fully make up for Westbrook’s inefficiency.

The rest looks pretty good. I def agree on Mitchell and Gobert being underrated. Heck, it’s an oversight by me to not mention them in my post. Truthfully, I think they could have beat the Clippers had they not run into Jokic.

But who’s Leonard and Hill?
No one....I meant Kawhi and Paul George....
 
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UL_1986

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Sigh. I will try and enjoy the ECF but the Lakers are going to run over Denver and whoever comes from the east. Probably no drama at all. Damn you, Clippers.
I think the Clipps would’ve faired worse imo. The nuggets control of tempo really made the clippers look unorganized and sloppy. Not sure how that’ll translate to playing the lakers, but Jokic and Murray are the real deal. If MPJ, Harris, Milsap, Grant and co play good, the series will go to 7 imo.
 
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TheDude1

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Interesting story about the mental toll of the bubble...


I know that some people will immediately write it off ("Oh, poor millionaires!") but regardless of how rich you are or how well taken of you are, it is interesting to look at the impact of a group of workers being socially isolated and removed from their families for months on end on their happiness and well being.

Article mentions that having a set schedule is key, and obviously exercise helps.

Some nice insight from Jamal Murray in particular about it.

I still think I'd trade places with them, but a good article.
 
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MGC_07

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Jimmy needs to turn it around. It’s a tie game with 5 left and he has 8 points and 2-9 from the field. But this is the time he shines.
 

MGC_07

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The Heat in this 4th are shooting like Clippers I’m game 7. They were up 8 and now down 5. They can’t buy a bucket.