Michigan State Gang Rape
- Thread starter KUhawks34
- Start date
After the Duke and KU gang rapes, I think I'll hold out judgement for a while.
One big difference, at Kansas it happened at the dorm the players stay in and was reported to all media outlets. No player implicated.
This scenario nobody reported and players have been implicated.
I get what you are saying but completely different sets of circumstances.
It's being reported now as the suit was just filed. Also from the article; "her three alleged attackers (who are unnamed in the suit)"
Team building exercises sure have changed since I was their age.
If you mean truly subscribing to "innocent until proven guilty" even in the court of public opinion, awesome. If you mean you're essentially opposing the alleged victim, or taking the type of attitude that has traditionally made it harder for rape victims to come forward, not cool.
So you're either saying I'm awesome or not cool?
That's either awesome, or not cool of you.
I'm giving you the opportunity to clarify and elaborate. There could of course be more than the two options I proposed, but they seemed to be the most likely interpretations of what you said. If you meant the former, that's entirely appropriate. If you meant the latter, it's not.
Also, shame on all of the very, very few Tawana Brawleys and Crystal Mangums out there who use fake rape allegations to get their way and create doubt about all rape allegations as a result, but shame on us, too, for allowing a handful of such cases to make us cynical and cold toward all alleged rape victims.
It's pretty obvious what he meant, as soon as someone sees a headline like this they automatically assume guilt. The Duke Lacrosse team was dragged through the mud, season cancelled, etc. And they were 100% innocent.
Okay, so what does that look like moving forward? Does it mean following the story objectively as it develops or being cynical about her version of it and casting doubt on it at every turn? (He has already eliminated vengeful demands for punishment of the definitely guilty rapists w/o bothering w/ a trial as another reaction.)
Last edited:
I think we should just assume women are lying every time their lips move. Better to play it safe.
In all seriousness the accuser should be treated with the same amount of scrutiny as the accused, at the very least by the authorities. Assuming guilt or discouraging people from going forward with allegations is wrong.
Right. I'm not all that interested in this right now because it doesn't really matter whether I am or not. I hope that however we look at it the truth is found out with no judgments until then for anyone. My take on things like this are pretty extreme. If guilty, you could put them away for life for all I care. I have no tolerance for rape. I have no tolerance for any sort of crime against women. If false, she should go to jail for a pretty lengthy period as well. I have little tolerance for ruining a life for no good reason. It isn't as bad as rape but it should be punished pretty severely. I think this would actually help victims, which is still needed.
The fact that Duke gang raped MSU on national television right before this happened and is in the clear shows the power K really has.
Oh man. Well done.
Did K cause them to return the favor to someone else? Were they that butthurt?
Last edited:
Absolutely.
However...
There is a difference between rape cases that end in acquittal and rape accusations that are fake. I suspect that in the vast majority of rapes and rape accusations -- particularly in college environments -- the accused really believe they are innocent and the accusers really believe they were raped. It's the tiny, tiny sliver of the time that women are actually, knowingly lying, and even then, the odds on calling their bluff are terrible.
So as far as determining criminal culpability, we absolutely have to be fair to both sides. As far as demeanor goes, though, it's the safe and compassionate assumption that the alleged victim is at the very least traumatized, whether it was the result of a crime or not, so even while questioning her and remaining objective, she's got to be handled with kids' gloves. It's totally reasonable for the police to ask questions, but when that leads to her reliving it, many of them just can't endure it.
Michigan State's statement:
Late Monday afternoon, April 9, 2018, MSU was notified that a Jane Doe filed a lawsuit against the University and “Unidentified Roes” (employees or counselors of the MSU Counseling Center) claiming that she was raped by three unnamed MSU athletes and, when she sought help, the University convinced her not to take her case to the authorities. The media has taken these allegations about MSU’s response to her assault as established fact. Unfortunately, they are untrue.
Here are the facts:
We have confirmed that, in April 2015, Jane Doe did visit MSU counseling and psychiatric services and that our records show that appropriate care and relevant information for a rape victim was provided to the student. We have not found any evidence or indication that she was discouraged in any way to make a Title IX complaint or a complaint to the police department. On the contrary, the student said she was then too distraught to discuss her circumstances. The counselor also suggested she visit the Sexual Assault Program unit on campus.
In February 2016, Jane Does visited the Sexual Assault Prevention Unit to receive additional services. She was provided appropriate services, including group counseling sessions, participating in a consultation with a sexual assault advocate, and scheduling an initial appointment with a sexual assault program therapist (an appointment which she did not appear for).
In October 2015, Jane Doe’s father contacted her academic advisor to discuss concerns over academic performance. Through that conversation, the advisor learned about the alleged sexual assault. Academic Advisors are mandatory reporters under MSU’s policies and the academic advisor promptly took the appropriate step of notifying the MSU Police Department about the potential assault.
The MSUPD Special Victims Unit took the report seriously and tried to reach Jane Doe to start the investigation and gather more information, but Jane Doe did not respond to their outreach. An informational email was sent to her that outlined resources available to her, including Title IX information, options to contact the Office of Institutional Equity and relevant counseling services.
Jane Doe never revealed the names of her alleged assailants nor, until she filed her lawsuit, did she publicly assert that an assault had occurred. To date, she has yet to exercise her right to make a Title IX complaint or contact the MSUPD or respond to the effort of the Special Victims Unit to learn information about the assault her father brought to the academic advisor’s attention.
Any information shared during meetings with MSU counseling and psychiatric services is private and confidential. When attempting to investigate the issue, MSUPD did not have names or any information about possible assailants as Jane Doe never responded to their inquiry. At no point was MSU Athletics Department or the Basketball Program or Head Basketball Coach aware of or notified of the existence of a Jane Doe’s sexual assault allegation.
“We are deeply saddened when any student comes to us as the result of a sexual assault. For the unfortunate cases where it does happen, MSU has the resources tools and expertise to respond. These resources are available to every member of the community, 24-7, no exceptions,” said MSU Interim President John Engler
Late Monday afternoon, April 9, 2018, MSU was notified that a Jane Doe filed a lawsuit against the University and “Unidentified Roes” (employees or counselors of the MSU Counseling Center) claiming that she was raped by three unnamed MSU athletes and, when she sought help, the University convinced her not to take her case to the authorities. The media has taken these allegations about MSU’s response to her assault as established fact. Unfortunately, they are untrue.
Here are the facts:
We have confirmed that, in April 2015, Jane Doe did visit MSU counseling and psychiatric services and that our records show that appropriate care and relevant information for a rape victim was provided to the student. We have not found any evidence or indication that she was discouraged in any way to make a Title IX complaint or a complaint to the police department. On the contrary, the student said she was then too distraught to discuss her circumstances. The counselor also suggested she visit the Sexual Assault Program unit on campus.
In February 2016, Jane Does visited the Sexual Assault Prevention Unit to receive additional services. She was provided appropriate services, including group counseling sessions, participating in a consultation with a sexual assault advocate, and scheduling an initial appointment with a sexual assault program therapist (an appointment which she did not appear for).
In October 2015, Jane Doe’s father contacted her academic advisor to discuss concerns over academic performance. Through that conversation, the advisor learned about the alleged sexual assault. Academic Advisors are mandatory reporters under MSU’s policies and the academic advisor promptly took the appropriate step of notifying the MSU Police Department about the potential assault.
The MSUPD Special Victims Unit took the report seriously and tried to reach Jane Doe to start the investigation and gather more information, but Jane Doe did not respond to their outreach. An informational email was sent to her that outlined resources available to her, including Title IX information, options to contact the Office of Institutional Equity and relevant counseling services.
Jane Doe never revealed the names of her alleged assailants nor, until she filed her lawsuit, did she publicly assert that an assault had occurred. To date, she has yet to exercise her right to make a Title IX complaint or contact the MSUPD or respond to the effort of the Special Victims Unit to learn information about the assault her father brought to the academic advisor’s attention.
Any information shared during meetings with MSU counseling and psychiatric services is private and confidential. When attempting to investigate the issue, MSUPD did not have names or any information about possible assailants as Jane Doe never responded to their inquiry. At no point was MSU Athletics Department or the Basketball Program or Head Basketball Coach aware of or notified of the existence of a Jane Doe’s sexual assault allegation.
“We are deeply saddened when any student comes to us as the result of a sexual assault. For the unfortunate cases where it does happen, MSU has the resources tools and expertise to respond. These resources are available to every member of the community, 24-7, no exceptions,” said MSU Interim President John Engler
Similar threads
