Game week - Official GOAT Series in all of Sports Thread

[dukedevilz]

For this discussion we are surely talking about since Roy has been at UNC. If not, then we must go back to the days of Jordan, Worthy, etc... and Carter, Wallace, etc.... Then you guys lose the argument you are trying to make here. Or if you mean just Roy you are talking about Duke vs Kansas. I don't give a crap about that. This is a UNC/Duke thread. So you need to figure out what exactly it is you are trying to say.

Also, hopefully we aren't getting too serious here. Please tell me if so and I'll just post some gifs.

Let's stop this BS narrative that Roy has won with guys that weren't already super-talented. The only difference is, Roy's title teams are stacked with upperclassmen that stick around for 3/4 years.

2005 team had 4 top 10 recruits, including 3 juniors.
2009 team had 6 top 20 recruits (2 Seniors, 2 Juniors, 2 Freshmen), including 4 in the top 10.
2017 team had 1 senior in the top 15 (Hicks), 3 Juniors in the top 25, and 1 Freshmen in the top 20.

 

[dukedevilz]

Good thing for me I watch CBB and not the NBA.

Excellent, indeed! Hope you enjoy another double-digit loss season!

 

[UNC71-00]

Let's stop this BS narrative that Roy has won with guys that weren't already super-talented. The only difference is, Roy's title teams are stacked with upperclassmen that stick around for 3/4 years.

2005 team had 4 top 10 recruits, including 3 juniors.
2009 team had 6 top 20 recruits (2 Seniors, 2 Juniors, 2 Freshmen), including 4 in the top 10.
2017 team had 1 senior in the top 15 (Hicks), 3 Juniors in the top 25, and 1 Freshmen in the top 20.

All I see are 3 national championships over that period, which is one more than Duke.

Congrats on the NBA though, even though the sum of every Duke player ever can't even carry Jordan's left nut.

 

[dukedevilz]

All I see are 3 national championships over that period, which is one more than Duke.

Congrats on the NBA though, even though the sum of every Duke player ever can't even carry Jordan's left nut.

Yes, and congrats on 5 Level 1 NCAA Infractions, missing the NCAA Tournament 3 times this century, and producing exactly 0 NBA All-Stars from the last two decades.

 

[tw3301]

The hate is real. Eat shit Kentucky and Louisville fans.

 

[UNC71-00]

Yes, and congrats on 5 Level 1 NCAA Infractions, missing the NCAA Tournament 3 times this century, and producing exactly 0 NBA All-Stars from the last two decades.

That was the football team, son. And we will see how many tournaments y'all miss when K gets summoned back to the underworld.

Congrats on the NBA though. You must be proud.

 

[coryfly]

Let's stop this BS narrative that Roy has won with guys that weren't already super-talented. The only difference is, Roy's title teams are stacked with upperclassmen that stick around for 3/4 years.

2005 team had 4 top 10 recruits, including 3 juniors.
2009 team had 6 top 20 recruits (2 Seniors, 2 Juniors, 2 Freshmen), including 4 in the top 10.
2017 team had 1 senior in the top 15 (Hicks), 3 Juniors in the top 25, and 1 Freshmen in the top 20.

Who said they weren't talented? You can't outperform Duke year after year in the NCAAT without talented kids. They just have kids less talented than Duke's, which is clear since when they get to the NBA the best coaches in the world can't get out of them what Roy can. But hey, congrats on all those draft picks, many of whom go on to be good NBA players after being on teams that flop in March.

 

[coryfly]

Yes, and congrats on 5 Level 1 NCAA Infractions, missing the NCAA Tournament 3 times this century, and producing exactly 0 NBA All-Stars from the last two decades.

I feel like you don't understand how this whole point-counterpoint thing works. You stating things, like Roy being better than K with 0 NBA All-Stars, actually helps my point. Not yours.

 

[coryfly]

Yes, and congrats on 5 Level 1 NCAA Infractions, missing the NCAA Tournament 3 times this century, and producing exactly 0 NBA All-Stars from the last two decades.

You aren't the dude from DI who all the Duke fans sucked up to and idiotically worshipped when he was going on thread after thread about how much trouble UNC was going to get into are you?

 

[UNC71-00]

You aren't the dude from DI who all the Duke fans sucked up to and idiotically worshipped when he was going on thread after thread about how much trouble UNC was going to get into are you?

Is this that dude? JFC what a whacko.

 

[tw3301]

Who said they weren't talented? You can't outperform Duke year after year in the NCAAT without talented kids. They just have kids less talented than Duke's, which is clear since when they get to the NBA the best coaches in the world can't get out of them what Roy can. But hey, congrats on all those draft picks, many of whom go on to be good NBA players after being on teams that flop in March.

The only year I can think of that UNC had less talent than Duke and outperformed them would be 2017.

 

[tw3301]

You aren't the dude from DI who all the Duke fans sucked up to and idiotically worshipped when he was going on thread after thread about how much trouble UNC was going to get into are you?

No that was someone else, I know who you are are talking about but it wasn't him.

 

[coryfly]

Is this that dude? JFC what a whacko.

I don't know that is is. I was just seriously asking.

 

[dukedevilz]

That was the football team, son. And we will see how many tournaments y'all miss when K gets summoned back to the underworld.

Congrats on the NBA though. You must be proud.

10 of the guys majored in AFAM. Probably just a coincidence, right?

 

[coryfly]

No that was someone else, I know who you are are talking about but it wasn't him.

Ok, just wondering. Seemed like a weird spot to add in that stuff.

 

[coryfly]

10 of the guys majored in AFAM. Probably just a coincidence, right?

I mean, maybe they were interested in that sort of thing. That really is pretty reasonable. More than likely they were interested in it and knew it wasn't all that tough. Smart.

 

[coryfly]

The only year I can think of that UNC had less talent than Duke and outperformed them would be 2017.

In the dance? I think we would disagree on who had more talent in a number of years then. I'm probably too lazy to go back and research though. Not sure if you are or not, haha.

 

[UNC71-00]

10 of the guys majored in AFAM. Probably just a coincidence, right?

They should have gone with Sociology

 

[coryfly]

They should have gone with Sociology

No doubt. A very challenging curriculum for sure.

 

[dukedevilz]

Who said they weren't talented? You can't outperform Duke year after year in the NCAAT without talented kids. They just have kids less talented than Duke's, which is clear since when they get to the NBA the best coaches in the world can't get out of them what Roy can. But hey, congrats on all those draft picks, many of whom go on to be good NBA players after being on teams that flop in March.

I feel like you don't understand how this whole point-counterpoint thing works. You stating things, like Roy being better than K with 0 NBA All-Stars, actually helps my point. Not yours.

Okay, did you just ignore the list of UNC recruits from 2002-2011 that I posted? I mean, UNC had 12 guys in the top 10 (RSCI) from that time period. Duke had 7. It really wasn't until Okafor's class in 2014 that Duke really started to out-recruit UNC, and of course those guys were only staying for one year.

You aren't the dude from DI who all the Duke fans sucked up to and idiotically worshipped when he was going on thread after thread about how much trouble UNC was going to get into are you?

That's DevilDJ. I'm not that extreme. Just having fun right now.

 

[coryfly]

Okay, did you just ignore the list of UNC recruits from 2002-2011 that I posted? I mean, UNC had 12 guys in the top 10 (RSCI) from that time period. Duke had 7. It really wasn't until Okafor's class in 2014 that Duke really started to out-recruit UNC, and of course those guys were only staying for one year.



That's DevilDJ. I'm not that extreme. Just having fun right now.

You said NBA All-Stars from the last two decades? That is 20 years, which is even longer than Roy has been at UNC. So that means since Roy has been at UNC his teams have outperformed Duke in the tournament with 0 NBA All-Stars, though Duke has also had 0 NBA All-Stars tbh. You aren't an NBA star in college. All college coaches can do is put you in position to get drafted. Then it is up to you and whoever drafts you. That is another argument though, haha.

Anyway, so with no NBA studs to all of those studs K had at Duke to work with (according to what you said about UNC's lack of NBA stars) Roy is still Mr. March. It's pretty awesome.

I wasn't accusing you of being that guy but seriously just asking. Regardless, I apologize. I've enjoyed your posting here so didn't think so but figured I would ask. No one should even be mentioned with that lunatic.

 

[Sevro]

No bias here but the UNC posters shit talking > Duke posters shit talking.

 

[dukedevilz]

You said NBA All-Stars from the last two decades? That is 20 years, which is even longer than Roy has been at UNC. So that means since Roy has been at UNC his teams have outperformed Duke in the tournament with 0 NBA All-Stars, though Duke has also had 0 NBA All-Stars tbh. You aren't an NBA star in college. All college coaches can do is put you in position to get drafted. Then it is up to you and whoever drafts you. That is another argument though, haha.

Anyway, so with no NBA studs to all of those studs K had at Duke to work with (according to what you said about UNC's lack of NBA stars) Roy is still Mr. March. It's pretty awesome.

I wasn't accusing you of being that guy but seriously just asking. Regardless, I apologize. I've enjoyed your posting here so didn't think so but figured I would ask. No one should even be mentioned with that lunatic.

If you go back two decades, Duke has had 4 all-stars play for them: Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng, and Kyrie Irving... UNC had 0.

Roy had 12 top-10 recruits from the 2002-2011 classes; Coach K had 7. From 2004-2014, the only time Coach K had more top 10 recruits than Roy was in 2006. So yeah, my argument stands. Roy had talent, and probably even more so than K until the Okafor class. He did well especially well when his 5-star recruits stayed for 3+ years.

Here is the common theme for Roy's title teams:
2005: 5 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits
2009: 4 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits
2017: 4 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits

 

[Sevro]

If you go back two decades, Duke has had 4 all-stars play for them: Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng, and Kyrie Irving... UNC had 0.

Roy had 12 top-10 recruits from the 2002-2011 classes; Coach K had 7. From 2004-2014, the only time Coach K had more top 10 recruits than Roy was in 2006. So yeah, my argument stands. Roy had talent, and probably even more so than K until the Okafor class. He did well especially well when his 5-star recruits stayed for 3+ years.

Here is the common theme for Roy's title teams:
2005: 5 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits
2009: 4 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits
2017: 4 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits

So Roy does more with elite and marginal talent?

Cool.

 

[coryfly]

If you go back two decades, Duke has had 4 all-stars play for them: Elton Brand, Carlos Boozer, Luol Deng, and Kyrie Irving... UNC had 0.

Roy had 12 top-10 recruits from the 2002-2011 classes; Coach K had 7. From 2004-2014, the only time Coach K had more top 10 recruits than Roy was in 2006. So yeah, my argument stands. Roy had talent, and probably even more so than K until the Okafor class. He did well especially well when his 5-star recruits stayed for 3+ years.

Here is the common theme for Roy's title teams:
2005: 5 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits
2009: 4 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits
2017: 4 upperclassmen that were 5-star recruits

You are going off HS stars there. Earlier it was NBA All-Stars that I responded to. HS stars aren't all equal, as how these guys have done after leaving college has told us. Some guys are overhyped or have a limited skillset and succeed in college anyway, like Roy's guys. Some guys are OAD studs and lose in the early rounds, like at other places. I mean, McAdoo was a 5 star (I think) who was basically just an athlete with limited skill. Comparing him to a guy like Jabari Parker, who had a much greater skillset, is obviously nonsense. We should contrast these guys. That would take a lot of work though. Instead we then must generalize. So we see all this NBA level talent K has had versus very limited NBA level talent Roy has had. Yet Roy still rocks.

 

[AWilli6995]

So Roy does more with elite and marginal talent?

Cool.

That's what it looks like to me. Don't forget those recruiting titles and I wonder how many of them turned into national champions.

 

[dukedevilz]

You are going off HS stars there. Earlier it was NBA All-Stars that I responded to. HS stars aren't all equal, as how these guys have done after leaving college has told us. Some guys are overhyped or have a limited skillset and succeed in college anyway, like Roy's guys. Some guys are OAD studs and lose in the early rounds, like at other places. I mean, McAdoo was a 5 star (I think) who was basically just an athlete with limited skill. Comparing him to a guy like Jabari Parker, who had a much greater skillset, is obviously nonsense. We should contrast these guys. That would take a lot of work though. Instead we then must generalize. So we see all this NBA level talent K has had versus very limited NBA level talent Roy has had. Yet Roy still rocks.

I'd still argue Roy had better talent, on average, for the first 10 years. Not until Okafor's class did things really change. And Jabari, btw, was in absolutely terrible defender. Our defense in 2014 was rated 86th in the country. Freshmen defenders are always a question mark. It's working out okay this year, but 2014 and 2016 had some serious struggles.

From 2004-2014: Duke had 17 draft picks, 12 being 1st rounders
From 2004-2014: UNC had 17 draft picks, 15 being 1st rounders

UNC has always had the benefit of having senior-laden teams, too. Roy's retention is off the charts (transfer or going pro early). In that regard, he is much, much better than K.

 

[coryfly]

I'd still argue Roy had better talent, on average, for the first 10 years. Not until Okafor's class did things really change. And Jabari, btw, was in absolutely terrible defender. Our defense in 2014 was rated 86th in the country. Freshmen defenders are always a question mark. It's working out okay this year, but 2014 and 2016 had some serious struggles.

From 2004-2014: Duke had 17 draft picks, 12 being 1st rounders
From 2004-2014: UNC had 17 draft picks, 15 being 1st rounders

UNC has always had the benefit of having senior-laden teams, too. Roy's retention is off the charts (transfer or going pro early). In that regard, he is much, much better than K.

But that isn't about him or K. It is about the players, which bears itself out when you see how they perform at the next level. You can make the argument Roy has had experienced talent to K's inexperienced talent. I think when we see how they do when they leave both programs it is clear which teams have had more pure talent though. The fact Roy has gotten so many non-NBA talented players drafted in the first round is pretty absurd.

 

[Sevro]

I'd still argue Roy had better talent, on average, for the first 10 years. Not until Okafor's class did things really change. And Jabari, btw, was in absolutely terrible defender. Our defense in 2014 was rated 86th in the country. Freshmen defenders are always a question mark. It's working out okay this year, but 2014 and 2016 had some serious struggles.

From 2004-2014: Duke had 17 draft picks, 12 being 1st rounders
From 2004-2014: UNC had 17 draft picks, 15 being 1st rounders

UNC has always had the benefit of having senior-laden teams, too. Roy's retention is off the charts (transfer or going pro early). In that regard, he is much, much better than K.

So Roy wins with a variety of talent and fosters an atmosphere where players stay longer?

These are things I would value in a coach.

 

[coryfly]

I'd still argue Roy had better talent, on average, for the first 10 years. Not until Okafor's class did things really change. And Jabari, btw, was in absolutely terrible defender. Our defense in 2014 was rated 86th in the country. Freshmen defenders are always a question mark. It's working out okay this year, but 2014 and 2016 had some serious struggles.

From 2004-2014: Duke had 17 draft picks, 12 being 1st rounders
From 2004-2014: UNC had 17 draft picks, 15 being 1st rounders

UNC has always had the benefit of having senior-laden teams, too. Roy's retention is off the charts (transfer or going pro early). In that regard, he is much, much better than K.

So Roy wins with a variety of talent and fosters an atmosphere where players stay longer?

These are things I would value in a coach.

Coach K would agree with you. He has admitted as much in the past.

 

[dukedevilz]

But that isn't about him or K. It is about the players, which bears itself out when you see how they perform at the next level. You can make the argument Roy has had experienced talent to K's inexperienced talent. I think when we see how they do when they leave both programs it is clear which teams have had more pure talent though. The fact Roy has gotten so many non-NBA talented players drafted in the first round is pretty absurd.

lol what? So many non-NBA talented players drafted in the first round? Are you kidding me? Brice Johnson is literally the only player player drafted in the 1st round who wasn't a top 25 player. Also, for emphasis, Roy had more top ten players from the 2002-2011 classes (12 to 7) and he had more 1st round picks from 2004-2014 (15-12).

 

[AWilli6995]

So Roy wins with a variety of talent and fosters an atmosphere where players stay longer?

These are things I would value in a coach.

If you're playing college ball as a junior/senior you're labeled a loser and somehow the coach held you back. If you're a freshman/sophomore and declare for the draft and don't get drafted the talk will be you should of stayed. Some like to play both sides.

 

[UNC71-00]

I'm just wondering who actually gives a flying fvck about the NBA other than some poor Duke guy trying to make some bizarre argument.

 

[coryfly]

lol what? So many non-NBA talented players drafted in the first round? Are you kidding me? Brice Johnson is literally the only player player drafted in the 1st round who wasn't a top 25 player. Also, for emphasis, Roy had more top ten players from the 2002-2011 classes (12 to 7) and he had more 1st round picks from 2004-2014 (15-12).

Again, you are reverted back to HS stars when we are discussing NBA level talent. We aren't talking about how overvalued or undervalued guys are in regards to HS rankings...or are we? It is tough to keep up with the shifting narrative tbh. We have to keep it consistent somehow though. So we can see that Roy gets guys drafted in the first round who really shouldn't be there. That is a positive thing.

 

[AWilli6995]

I'm just wondering who actually gives a flying fvck about the NBA other than some poor Duke guy trying to make some bizarre argument.

He's trying to make his argument and it's funny to me.

 

[coryfly]

So apparently some stars will be there Wednesday night. UNC fan J Cole and Obama supporting UNC and also Drake (who knows which bandwagon he is on these days), wife beating Floyd Mayweather, and unabomber praising 2 Chainz supporting Duke.

Kind of goes to show the differences in the programs. Duke brings out people who want to be seen by the media that manufactures praise and excuses for them and UNC will bring out players who played at and care for the program. Feels good to be a real family and not just a paid for 'Brotherhood' tag.

 

[dukedevilz]

Again, you are reverted back to HS stars when we are discussing NBA level talent. We aren't talking about how overvalued or undervalued guys are in regards to HS rankings...or are we? It is tough to keep up with the shifting narrative tbh. We have to keep it consistent somehow though. So we can see that Roy gets guys drafted in the first round who really shouldn't be there. That is a positive thing.

What guys does he get drafted in the first round that shouldn't have been there? They were all ranked in the top 25, minus Brice Johnson. Those guys were all very talented. 11 of his 15 first rounders were ranked in the top 10.

Anyway, I agree that these arguments are kind of silly. So back to memes, pics, or whatever.

 

[Sevro]

 

[UNC71-00]

What guys does he get drafted in the first round that shouldn't have been there? They were all ranked in the top 25, minus Brice Johnson. Those guys were all very talented. 11 of his 15 first rounders were ranked in the top 10.

Anyway, I agree that these arguments are kind of silly. So back to memes, pics, or whatever.

and here I was thinking that it was the left that couldn't meme.

 

[dukedevilz]

Kind of goes to show the differences in the programs. Duke brings out people who want to be seen by the media that manufactures praise and excuses for them and UNC will bring out players who played at and care for the program. Feels good to be a real family and not just a paid for 'Brotherhood' tag.

Kind of a desperate attempt to catch some low-bearing fruit, wouldn't you say? Duke is one of the most popular sporting teams in the country. Lots of questionable characters could be associated with each of the more prominent fanbases... Heck, I don't even have to look at the fans assoicated with UNC to find some questionable characters; I could go directly to some of the former players. Larry Brown, Rasheed Wallace, Makhtar Ndiaye, Rashad McCants, PJ Hairston, Jalek Felton...