Arkansas (and me) just got bent over by the refs

[boilerzz]

Wow. Arkansas was up 10 with 4 minutes left on Missouri And then the refs took over. Several questionable calls on Arkansas including this one that was the fifth foul on Makhi Mitchell (one of 4 Razorbacks who fouled out):



Then, seconds later, the call a charge on Davonte Davis. The refs went to the monitor to make sure the Missouri player wasn’t in the charge circle (he was) but they kept the call as it was:



There were 11 fouls called on Arkansas in the last 4:53 and only the last 2 were intentional.

 

[boilerzz]

And in doing so, it cost me a 4 team parlay and three 3 team parlays. Sumbitches!

 

[Demarcus Kidd-Miller]

And I thought the foul they called on Cason a few weeks ago was bad. Mitchell wasn't even close to that guy sheesh.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Wow. Arkansas was up 10 with 4 minutes left on Missouri And then the refs took over. Several questionable calls on Arkansas including this one that was the fifth foul on Makhi Mitchell (one of 4 Razorbacks who fouled out):

View embedded media

Then, seconds later, the call a charge on Davonte Davis. The refs went to the monitor to make sure the Missouri player wasn’t in the charge circle (he was) but they kept the call as it was:

View embedded media

There were 11 fouls called on Arkansas in the last 4:53 and only the last 2 were intentional.

 

[Montana81]

Wow. Arkansas was up 10 with 4 minutes left on Missouri And then the refs took over. Several questionable calls on Arkansas including this one that was the fifth foul on Makhi Mitchell (one of 4 Razorbacks who fouled out):

View embedded media

Then, seconds later, the call a charge on Davonte Davis. The refs went to the monitor to make sure the Missouri player wasn’t in the charge circle (he was) but they kept the call as it was:

View embedded media

There were 11 fouls called on Arkansas in the last 4:53 and only the last 2 were intentional.

Can’t convince me some of these guys don’t have money on these games. Or their not in vegas pocket or something. It’s just unfathomable that you could look at a slow motion replay and still get a call wrong that everyone else in the world saw correctly in real time.

I see stuff like this and i question all our sanity for continueing to watch and invest time and emotion into it.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

@IUfanBorden

 

[lurkeraspect84]

 

[lurkeraspect84]

SEC vs Big 12 matchup is going to be interesting. These players want it.
Will they get Pac or B1G refs?

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

There’s probably a foul before the shot with the guy handchecking. I don’t see one on the shot.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Arkansas reminds me of some of those throwback Pitino coached teams, they foul so much the officials just can't call them all. What the refs end up doing is missing calls the entire game because it's just tough to call every foul and they instinctively try to make a correct call late in a game that wasn't called the entire game.

Refs do get caught up in the comeback. It happens on the reg. It's almost like they feel a part of it, or just unintentionally get on board. Or maybe they just naturally begin rewarding a team that appears to be in an underdog situation.

And yeah they may have a bias against a HC or player, that rogue ref taught us that.

I think we'd all agree, refs are just incompetent.

 

[hawkit3113]

Haha, the OP took it in the ass

 

[boilerzz]

Haha, the OP took it in the ass

Just wanted to see what it's like to be a pig in Iowa.

 

[hawkit3113]

Just wanted to see what it's like to be a pig in Iowa.

Well, just bend over and I'll throw another one in ya.

 

[boilerzz]

Well, just bend over and I'll throw another one in ya.

 

[IUfanBorden]

There’s probably a foul before the shot with the guy handchecking. I don’t see one on the shot.

Had his hand on him, and then extended as he went up. Not a lot---but when you're in the air with no base support, it doesn't take much to impact a shot.

I watched the video over and over. Arkansas kid has his hand on his hip, and as he goes up to shoot, he extends it. I mean.................

 

[IUfanBorden]

@IUfanBorden

First one is a foul. Hand on his hip, and as the shooter goes up, he extends(push)----Not much, but fouls are not determined by HOW much....Go shoot a jumper, then have your buddy just give ya a light nudge while youre in the air----Let me know if that impacted the shot.

 

[byronoglesby]

Wow. Arkansas was up 10 with 4 minutes left on Missouri And then the refs took over. Several questionable calls on Arkansas including this one that was the fifth foul on Makhi Mitchell (one of 4 Razorbacks who fouled out):

View embedded media

Then, seconds later, the call a charge on Davonte Davis. The refs went to the monitor to make sure the Missouri player wasn’t in the charge circle (he was) but they kept the call as it was:

View embedded media

There were 11 fouls called on Arkansas in the last 4:53 and only the last 2 were intentional.

Bad calls on both teams Missouri is just a better team. Especially when they are clicking.

 

[Turinturumbar]

Had his hand on him, and then extended as he went up. Not a lot---but when you're in the air with no base support, it doesn't take much to impact a shot.

I watched the video over and over. Arkansas kid has his hand on his hip, and as he goes up to shoot, he extends it. I mean.................

Sure, but these guys have hands on hips literally every time up and down the court in most games. That may technically be a foul, but it’s almost never called unless it impacts a player’s shot, which didn’t happen on that play.

It’s like the hold in football where OL get their hands up into the DL’s chest and grab hold. The way it’s done it’s technically a hold but there’s be 100 holding calls every game if they called it. So they really only call it when the DT disengages and the OL takes a half second too long to let go, and even then they call it about 25% of the time.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Sure, but these guys have hands on hips literally every time up and down the court in most games. That may technically be a foul, but it’s almost never called unless it impacts a player’s shot, which didn’t happen on that play.

1. Having your hand on the hip is not illegal----Guiding them, or impeding their ability to move is.

2. It did impact the shot. Like I said, go shoot a jumper, and have a buddy give you even a slight push, and tell me it doesn't impact the shot. It does. Had he just left his hand there, no call---but he extended---and that is always gonna get called on a shooter.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

First one is a foul. Hand on his hip, and as the shooter goes up, he extends(push)----Not much, but fouls are not determined by HOW much....Go shoot a jumper, then have your buddy just give ya a light nudge while youre in the air----Let me know if that impacted the shot.

Good response Borden. It is a hard job justifying cheats and I appreciate your effort.

Joe Lyndsey screwed over UK at Rupp Tuesday night. Nearly every call AGAINST UK was whistled by Joe. Nearly every call against UGA was by some official other than Joe. He was the lead official and tried to control the game. On one reviewed foul the initial contact was that a UGA player had illegal contact to Wallace's head. After review it was a foul on Wallace when the UGA player locked Wallace and was the guilty party. Joe's skull is thicker than my UK skull. Joe is a cheat and I bet he gets more money than what the NCAA pays him.

I believe that a bunch of the SEC refs are on the take. I used to be close to the UK basketball program and was told money passed on the big games. Of course they are not dumb and they keep it under raps.

Oscar Tshiebwe had the shit beat out of him every damned time he got the ball. I record the games and put them on Bluray at 34 frames a second. I have a still shot of Oscar with six hands on him while he was attempting a shot. Not one damned foul was called. It was right in front of Joe.

Football officiating is wonderful. Basketball officiating is left to cheaters.

 

[cdbearde]

Good response Borden. It is a hard job justifying cheats and I appreciate your effort.

Joe Lyndsey screwed over UK at Rupp Tuesday night. Nearly every call AGAINST UK was whistled by Joe. Nearly every call against UGA was by some official other than Joe. He was the lead official and tried to control the game. On one reviewed foul the initial contact was that a UGA player had illegal contact to Wallace's head. After review it was a foul on Wallace when the UGA player locked Wallace and was the guilty party. Joe's skull is thicker than my UK skull. Joe is a cheat and I bet he gets more money than what the NCAA pays him.

I believe that a bunch of the SEC refs are on the take. I used to be close to the UK basketball program and was told money passed on the big games. Of course they are not dumb and they keep it under raps.

Oscar Tshiebwe had the shit beat out of him every damned time he got the ball. I record the games and put them on Bluray at 34 frames a second. I have a still shot of Oscar with six hands on him while he was attempting a shot. Not one damned foul was called. It was right in front of Joe.

Football officiating is wonderful. Basketball officiating is left to cheaters.

Bert, I understand what you are saying, I live with it like you do. But stop and think about it, if you are a ref and you have a coach like John Calipari yelling at you all the time, would you not have ill feelings toward him?
Refs are professionals, but human nature is what it is. Kinda hard to blame them, just saying. 🤷‍♀️

 

[IUfanBorden]

Bert, I understand what you are saying, I live with it like you do. But stop and think about it, if you are a ref and you have a coach like John Calipari yelling at you all the time, would you not have ill feelings toward him?
Refs are professionals, but human nature is what it is. Kinda hard to blame them, just saying. 🤷‍♀️

One of Cal's biggest faults. Look I don't mind coaches yelling, etc.....But when its EVERY call, or EVERY trip down the floor, well..........Ya just tune it out. And what really gets my ass is when a coach complains and I know damn good ans well there was absolutely no ****ing way he could have seen what happened....Huge peeve of mind---I'll ask----"what did you see there?"---He was holding him Borden. Really, John? You saw him holding your guy, from 80 feet away, through 6-7 players? Naaaah, John, you are gonna have to better than that.

On the flip side, the coaches who rarely bark? Yeah those are the ones that when they do,odds are you fukin missed something.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Bert, I understand what you are saying, I live with it like you do. But stop and think about it, if you are a ref and you have a coach like John Calipari yelling at you all the time, would you not have ill feelings toward him?
Refs are professionals, but human nature is what it is. Kinda hard to blame them, just saying. 🤷‍♀️

One of Cal's biggest faults. Look I don't mind coaches yelling, etc.....But when its EVERY call, or EVERY trip down the floor, well..........Ya just tune it out. And what really gets my ass is when a coach complains and I know damn good ans well there was absolutely no ****ing way he could have seen what happened....Huge peeve of mind---I'll ask----"what did you see there?"---He was holding him Borden. Really, John? You saw him holding your guy, from 80 feet away, through 6-7 players? Naaaah, John, you are gonna have to better than that.

On the flip side, the coaches who rarely bark? Yeah those are the ones that when they do,odds are you fukin missed something.

Yet Coach K got every damned call.

If what you say is correct why does it only effect certain officials?

 

[coryfly]

The problem with fans is they think their players get the shaft and other schools get the calls. Every fanbase has a large contingent that feels that way. Don't get me wrong, I disagree with Borden here at times and other officials on other boards as I think they tend to DYB at times (and I understand that).

Most reasonable people should realize that sometimes refs make bad calls or miss calls. They aren't out to get your team though. That's where the crazy lies.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Yet Coach K got every damned call.

If what you say is correct why does it only effect certain officials?

This is dumb---it really is. I'm not arguing this third grade shit. You're a fantastic person, Bert. But this shit the refs are out to get UK, and apparently to you, UK only loses b/c of the officials...

Blah, blah and blah.

Coaches of tenure, success gain respect, clout, etc....Coaches like Rupp......Or Pitino.......And yes, even Cal. Its how it is.

No one is fuking out to get Kentucky. Its just that some of you cannot handle losing, and its easier to blame the officials than to accept someone was just better than you. I mean you act as if UK has never benefited from a good whistle----News flash----THEY HAVE. And go watch tape on Oscar. Yeah he gets beat and banged on-----But dude gets away with a TON of fouls.

Not worth discussing with you, TBH.....

 

[IUfanBorden]

The problem with fans is they think their players get the shaft and other schools get the calls. Every fanbase has a large contingent that feels that way. Don't get me wrong, I disagree with Borden here at times and other officials on other boards as I think they tend to DYB at times (and I understand that).

Most reasonable people should realize that sometimes refs make bad calls or miss calls. They aren't out to get your team though. That's where the crazy lies.

The game is so fast. Fans just don't understand this. Sitting in the stands, even floor level, doesn't begin to tell the story....And look, we have less than a second to make a call. I have to decide if defender was in legal guarding position....did he maintain it.....did he remain vertical.....All of that, in a second....Where in the **** do I have the time to go----"I'm gonna **** them on this one..."

Bad calls are exactly that----BAD CALLS. It happens. Its part of the game. Shit last night Illinois had 9 TOTAL fouls...Where the officials out go get IU?

**** no.

Its an absolute asinine take.....It really is.

 

[coryfly]

The game is crazy fast. Watching games on TV fools people. If you watch a game in person you realize just how athletic and fast the game actually is.

 

[boilerzz]

The game is so fast. Fans just don't understand this. Sitting in the stands, even floor level, doesn't begin to tell the story....And look, we have less than a second to make a call. I have to decide if defender was in legal guarding position....did he maintain it.....did he remain vertical.....All of that, in a second....Where in the **** do I have the time to go----"I'm gonna **** them on this one..."

Bad calls are exactly that----BAD CALLS. It happens. Its part of the game. Shit last night Illinois had 9 TOTAL fouls...Where the officials out go get IU?

**** no.

Its an absolute asinine take.....It really is.

It’s a brutally hard job. I give refs more runway than just about anyone. But 11 fouls to 1 over the last 4 minutes in that game the other night…in an incredibly physical game….that’s a struggle.

And I wish I had video of the charge call. They reviewed it and still said the Missouri player wasn’t in the circle when it was clear he was. I understand missing calls in real-time but on review is a head scratcher.

 

[della]

https://www.arkansasonline.com/news...r-on-key-play-in-hogs-loss-at-mizzou/?appnews

 

[kyjeff1]

I saw the Ark v Mizz game and yeah, I feel like Ark got hosed a bit and it wasn't just those 2 bad calls really (they were bad).

Mizz was allowed to play with more physicality than Ark was.

Also, the game was called differently the last few minutes than it had been for the rest of the game.

However, I think college officiating has been very good this year, it is getting better. Officiating was pretty awful a few years ago, but changes have definitely been made.

I haven't even noticed the refs until the UK v UGA game and the Ark v Mizz game. Like I said, they've been pretty good this year.

Lastly, I do think there is some truth to refs getting frustrated with coaches like Cal that 'Lebron James' them all game long. To me, guys like Cal should live by the "you get more bees with honey" method. It’s more effective.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

I saw the Ark v Mizz game and yeah, I feel like Ark got hosed a bit and it wasn't just those 2 bad calls really (they were bad).

Mizz was allowed to play with more physicality than Ark was.

Also, the game was called differently the last few minutes than it had been for the rest of the game.

However, I think college officiating has been very good this year, it is getting better. Officiating was pretty awful a few years ago, but changes have definitely been made.

I haven't even noticed the refs until the UK v UGA game and the Ark v Mizz game. Like I said, they've been pretty good this year.

Lastly, I do think there is some truth to refs getting frustrated with coaches like Cal that 'Lebron James' them all game long. To me, guys like Cal should live by the "you get more bees with honey" method. It’s more effective.

You had better watch it Jeff, Borden will be here calling you a fool.

 

[kyjeff1]

You had better watch it Jeff, Borden will be here calling you a fool.

He’s in a tough spot on here. The last thing he wants to do is agree with the thought that some officials need more training, or have a bias, so I get it.
He and I have had some disagreements, but I think he's a good dude.
I do disagree with him on the foul call in the Ark v Mizz game with the jump shooter. You just can't call that stuff when the game is so physical everywhere else. That's a play on. If you call that, everybody will foul out in the 1st half of every game.

 

[rockycard]

Arkansas is a shell of what they were before the injuries.

 

[kyjeff1]

Arkansas is a shell of what they were before the injuries.

Yeah and it could cost them a tournament birth. The SEC is really tough this year, especially on the road.
If any team lost 2 of their best players, they would really struggle too.

 

[IUfanBorden]

It’s a brutally hard job. I give refs more runway than just about anyone. But 11 fouls to 1 over the last 4 minutes in that game the other night…in an incredibly physical game….that’s a struggle.

And I wish I had video of the charge call. They reviewed it and still said the Missouri player wasn’t in the circle when it was clear he was. I understand missing calls in real-time but on review is a head scratcher.

I never pay attention to foul count....Its not my job to do that. Coaches will say, "Borden its 7-1(fouls)"---Oh, my bad coach....We'll make sure and fix that..

I mean IU vs Illinois----20 fouls on IU---only 9 on Illinois. IU fans---"we got a bad whistle"- Meh, maybe. BUt theres nothing intentional about it. FTR, we(IU) foul a lot. A whole lot. With that being said, just because IU fouls a lot, doesn't mean Illinois doesn't....

I mean not all contact is the same. I have said this over and over.

 

[IUfanBorden]

He’s in a tough spot on here. The last thing he wants to do is agree with the thought that some officials need more training, or have a bias, so I get it.
He and I have had some disagreements, but I think he's a good dude.
I do disagree with him on the foul call in the Ark v Mizz game with the jump shooter. You just can't call that stuff when the game is so physical everywhere else. That's a play on. If you call that, everybody will foul out in the 1st half of every game.

I don't think there needs to be more training----Not for guys who have been D1 officials for 20+ years. What I do think needs to be done is more accountability....Need an influx of newer officials: Veteran guys have the mentality of---"I've been doing this for a long time-how dare you question me."---When you start doing that? Well you have ended any hope of getting better----Or at least being able to recgonize mistakes. I worked college baseball for 11 years. Also work HS(for 17). To this day I still ask for video of my games(HS), just to see what I can do to improve. Same in basketball. But those 20 year B10, B12, ACC, SEC guys??? Naaaah. Most are to fukin arrogant. I've been on crews when after a game they wouldn't watch ANY video. None. I'm like, "damn.....",

Training? Naaaah. Accountability? Yep. And also, take away the subjectivness....This is a foul, and its how we (NCAA/COnference) want it called. If you don't, we will start reducing games.

That^^^^^^^ wiould go a long ways in improving officiating.

I am sure there officials with bias---Me trying to speak for over 3,000+ officials would be extremely naive. Even then, I mean its almost impossible to insert that bias, through a call. I mean shit happens so fast, trying to process the play, letting it develop, deciding what happened, what did it effect, is hard enough---Now add to it you are ALSOproceesing---"Oh, wait----I hate this fuking coach/team"---It just doesn't work like that. With that being said, there are plays that could allow that----illegal screens being one. Or a "hand check", etc....But for the most part I feel extremely confident that guys ain't out there cheating. IMO bias is inflicted with how long of a rope you give a coach. Some earn a BIG rope, and well, some not so much.

 

[IUfanBorden]

.
I do disagree with him on the foul call in the Ark v Mizz game with the jump shooter. You just can't call that stuff when the game is so physical everywhere else. That's a play on. If you call that, everybody will foul out in the 1st half of every game.

Again, not all contact is the same---Noe does it have the same impact. I've called that exact same foul and coach says, "Borden you're calling that, but you all are letting all that banging go on in the paint"?

Me: Contact is inevitable down there(paint). But your guy had a choice on that play, and he decided to extend his arm...That's a choice coach. And a bad one..

Look, I know its look weak---And it is. But you don't need a car wreck to have a foul. Arky guy having his hand on his hip wan't the problem---Extending as the shooter becomes airborne was. You have played ball I'm sure. Ever went up to shoot a jumpre and had someone give ya a push? Yeah, ****s your shot up something crazy. Again, the contact does't have to be substantial to be a foul.

 

[IUfanBorden]

You had better watch it Jeff, Borden will be here calling you a fool.

Never called you a "fool"---Never would either. I said its dumb to think officials are out to get Kentucky. And it is(dumb). I mean were the officials out to get shitty Indiana vs Illinois?; Illini had 3 fouls in the first half----in a rugged, physical game. Only 9 total.

No, they were not.

I only here this shit when UK loses/struggling. Which seemingly has been a lot lately. Of course we all know who's fault that is, right?

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

Never called you a "fool"---Never would either. I said its dumb to think officials are out to get Kentucky. And it is(dumb). I mean were the officials out to get shitty Indiana vs Illinois?; Illini had 3 fouls in the first half----in a rugged, physical game. Only 9 total.

No, they were not.

I only here this shit when UK loses/struggling. Which seemingly has been a lot lately. Of course we all know who's fault that is, right?

No.

Today UK beat Texas A&M. Why did your friend Doug Shows call some many fouls against Kentucky?

A&M did not miss a free throw, great for them. 16 of 16. UK hit 11 of 17. Some of those came at the end of the game when it really did not count. Kentucky was going up against Doug Shows (SEC ref that gets 20% of Kentucky games even though it is well known that he hates anything to do with UK) today so that makes it problematic. Doug is a UGA crook. He still lives in Athens, GA. Who called the T on UK's Tshiebwe? Doug, who call the bulk of fouls against UK. Doug Shows, Borden, your old friend.

A&M's number 34, Marble, is a total thug, yet he gets to play most of the game and Cal benched our number 34 for several minutes that cost UK a 7 point lead and ended up in a 4 point deficit. Oscar was chopped often and nothing was called, he got 3 free throws. On the other side A&M's 34 Marble got 4 free throws even though he crushed Tshiebwe ever damned time he got the ball.

Go ahead Borden and brag about how stupid I am, but for once why don't you watch a fvcking game and see how bad SEC officiating really is?

 

[kyjeff1]

Again, not all contact is the same---Noe does it have the same impact. I've called that exact same foul and coach says, "Borden you're calling that, but you all are letting all that banging go on in the paint"?

Me: Contact is inevitable down there(paint). But your guy had a choice on that play, and he decided to extend his arm...That's a choice coach. And a bad one..

Look, I know its look weak---And it is. But you don't need a car wreck to have a foul. Arky guy having his hand on his hip wan't the problem---Extending as the shooter becomes airborne was. You have played ball I'm sure. Ever went up to shoot a jumpre and had someone give ya a push? Yeah, ****s your shot up something crazy. Again, the contact does't have to be substantial to be a foul.

What I'm saying is, you can't let that go all game long, then call it at the end of the game with the game on the line and also, how do you call that, when you let so much other hard contact go?