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Should this have been a Flagrant 1, a Flagrant 2, a regular foul, or a play on?

imajericho

imajericho

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Aug 26, 2012
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This happened tonight and the refs didn't call a foul. They also refused to review it when Hubert Davis got irate over it. Bacot was bleeding from the mouth.

This led into almost a brawl happening later on as Hunter Dickinson (above) fouled Caleb Love on a drive and stood over top of Caleb. Eventually Caleb tried to push Hunter away from him to get up and Hunter appears to try and knee Caleb in the head. Many people had to be restrained and 4 technical fouls were given out in the sequence.

So, the above picture. How should this have been called? Why would refs not even review this?
 
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imajericho said:
View embedded media


This happened tonight and the refs didn't call a foul. They also refused to review it when Hubert Davis got irate over it. Bacot was bleeding from the mouth.

This led into almost a brawl happening later on as Hunter Dickinson (above) fouled Caleb Love on a drive and stood over top of Caleb. Eventually Caleb tried to push Hunter away from him to get up and Hunter appears to try and knee Caleb in the head. Many people had to be restrained and 4 technical fouls were given out in the sequence.

So, the above picture. How should this have been called? Why would refs not even review this?
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It's hard to know who starts these things. We typically catch the guy that retaliates.

If I am associated with UNC I don't look Juwaan in the eye in the post game handshake line.
 
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imajericho said:
View embedded media


This happened tonight and the refs didn't call a foul. They also refused to review it when Hubert Davis got irate over it. Bacot was bleeding from the mouth.

This led into almost a brawl happening later on as Hunter Dickinson (above) fouled Caleb Love on a drive and stood over top of Caleb. Eventually Caleb tried to push Hunter away from him to get up and Hunter appears to try and knee Caleb in the head. Many people had to be restrained and 4 technical fouls were given out in the sequence.

So, the above picture. How should this have been called? Why would refs not even review this?
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Play on. And I for one can't wait for the day when Caleb Love gets his ass kicked.
 
I thought it was pretty absurd that a foul wasn't called. Not because of the elbow but simply because he fouled him. Then when they asked to review it the officials simply refused, which I didn't know you could do with an elbow but it also says they must have simply not seen it. However, IMO I would have hated to see it ruled any more than a foul as I don't think it was intentional. The officials just sort of let everything go early and it lead to the little brawl.

When Hunter tried to step over Love I'm glad Caleb got up and didn't take it though. I didn't really have a problem with any of it though. I like there to be some contentiousness. Makes it fun.

On another note, I want Howard and Hurley to play and have a contest to who can become the most unhinged during a game.
 
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The video of the elbow is after the scuffle (which happened after). You can see he puts his elbow high in the face area and makes a sudden burst of his elbow into his face.
 
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coryfly said:
I thought it was pretty absurd that a foul wasn't called. Not because of the elbow but simply because he fouled him. Then when they asked to review it the officials simply refused, which I didn't know you could do with an elbow but it also says they must have simply not seen it. However, IMO I would have hated to see it ruled any more than a foul as I don't think it was intentional. The officials just sort of let everything go early and it lead to the little brawl.

When Hunter tried to step over Love I'm glad Caleb got up and didn't take it though. I didn't really have a problem with any of it though. I like there to be some contentiousness. Makes it fun.

On another note, I want Howard and Hurley to play and have a contest to who can become the most unhinged during a game.
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If only coaches could all be as calm and collected as Hubert Davis
 
imajericho said:
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The video of the elbow is after the scuffle (which happened after). You can see he puts his elbow high in the face area and makes a sudden burst of his elbow into his face.
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I love how the shoulder to Bufkin’s face at the beginning of that videos gets conveniently ignored by you guys. Both teams played physical.
 
hailtoyourvictor said:
If only coaches could all be as calm and collected as Hubert Davis
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Last night was the most animated he has ever been becuase he was upset about the elbow. He wasn't being held back by his players and cussing at them though. He also has never struck people in the handshake line. Weird battle to pick here out of all that I said.
 
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coryfly said:
Last night was the most animated he has ever been becuase he was upset about the elbow. He wasn't being held back by his players and cussing at them though. He also has never struck people in the handshake line. Weird battle to pick here out of all that I said.
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All I said was I wish coaches could be as calm and collected as Hubert Davis. You okay?
 
What is funny, is that the AFAM nation is so concerned with a graze of an elbow towards one of, if not, the dirtiest player in the ACC.
 
imajericho said:
View embedded media


This happened tonight and the refs didn't call a foul. They also refused to review it when Hubert Davis got irate over it. Bacot was bleeding from the mouth.

This led into almost a brawl happening later on as Hunter Dickinson (above) fouled Caleb Love on a drive and stood over top of Caleb. Eventually Caleb tried to push Hunter away from him to get up and Hunter appears to try and knee Caleb in the head. Many people had to be restrained and 4 technical fouls were given out in the sequence.

So, the above picture. How should this have been called? Why would refs not even review this?
Click to expand...
Still pics are worthless....It doesn't show game action----which is pretty important, i.e. was it incidental contact....was it a basketball play, etc, etc...

Officials are not required to review this. IF all agreed just a basketball play, incidental , etc, etc.----99% of the time, there is no review. Just b/c a coach request you to review something, doesn't mean you have to.
 
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Yeah, I really didn't think it was that bad. OTOH, I've seen way less be reviewed and called a flagrant elbow on UNC players in the past (twice on Garrison Brooks that I can remember offhand). But I think you can make an argument on this play that it is or isn't a foul. I really didn't think it was more than that.

Overall, it was an enjoyable game, though it's easy to say that when your team wins. I did think Michigan played fairly well though. They will make some noise in the Big Ten IMO.
 
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IUfanBorden said:
Still pics are worthless....It doesn't show game action----which is pretty important, i.e. was it incidental contact....was it a basketball play, etc, etc...

Officials are not required to review this. IF all agreed just a basketball play, incidental , etc, etc.----99% of the time, there is no review. Just b/c a coach request you to review something, doesn't mean you have to.
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Literally posted the video in the thread. What are you a female ref now?
 
Is the shoulder to Bufkin the screen? I mean, he was standing still and Bufkin actually ran into his back more than the shoulder. I'm not sure how that is Bacot's fault. Regardless, neither of those plays (screen or the elbow) deserve much in terms of vitriol or anything. You could argue they both could be a foul I guess, or neither, or one a foul and not the other. Probably depends on who you pull for. Regardless, the only thing that started the nonsense was Dickenson's antics. I was ok with it though. I’ve done similar things when frustrated. A bunch of competitive guys getting after each other. Makes it fun.
 
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hailtoyourvictor said:
If you want Dickinson’s to be a flagrant but don’t think Bufkin’s is even a foul well then discussing things with you is irrelevant.
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Whataboutism.

Again. The things that happened AFTER this play are irrelevant to this topic. This topic is what should this play have been called and you keep saying "what about that hard screen later in the game". It's just nonsense.

The question posed here is because

A. The refs not looking at the play at least or calling something probably DID lead to the sequence with the hard screen, Dickinson trying to knee Caleb, and Caleb pushing Dickinson.

B. Brady Manek was ejected in an NCAA tournament game last year for what looked more way more unintentional than this with a Flagrant 2.


You just repeating over and over but what about that hard screen that happened later in the game is silly. There was 4 techs assessed on that play you are referring to. There was nothing assessed here.
 
imajericho said:
Literally posted the video in the thread. What are you a female ref now?
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You posted the video AFTER I posted about still pics being useless there genius.... I mean like 5 others commented that still pics are useless, need video----and two days later, you post a video---Then make a post like this?

How about this appraoch---"Hey Borden, heres the video"---Instead of some ignorant ass post like this one?
 
IUfanBorden said:
You posted the video AFTER I posted about still pics being useless there genius.... I mean like 5 others commented that still pics are useless, need video----and two days later, you post a video---Then make a post like this?

How about this appraoch---"Hey Borden, heres the video"---Instead of some ignorant ass post like this one?
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The video is post 16. Your post is 25. You okay, buddy?
 
imajericho said:
Whataboutism.

Again. The things that happened AFTER this play are irrelevant to this topic. This topic is what should this play have been called and you keep saying "what about that hard screen later in the game". It's just nonsense.

The question posed here is because

A. The refs not looking at the play at least or calling something probably DID lead to the sequence with the hard screen, Dickinson trying to knee Caleb, and Caleb pushing Dickinson.

B. Brady Manek was ejected in an NCAA tournament game last year for what looked more way more unintentional than this with a Flagrant 2.


You just repeating over and over but what about that hard screen that happened later in the game is silly. There was 4 techs assessed on that play you are referring to. There was nothing assessed here.
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You can’t even acknowledge it was a foul. That says a lot about your intentions ITT.
 

Here is the video. Borden can tell us what he thinks from a ref's perspective. Bacot turns his back and Bufkin runs into him. Based on the lack of what they had called up to that point that was certainly not going to get called a foul. But if they were calling it tight I would think they would have called it an illegal screen.

Not sure that would have stopped Hunter from causing the ruckus. It isn't like everyone just stops playing.
 
coryfly said:

Here is the video. Borden can tell us what he thinks from a ref's perspective. Bacot turns his back and Bufkin runs into him. Based on the lack of what they had called up to that point that was certainly not going to get called a foul. But if they were calling it tight I would think they would have called it an illegal screen.

Not sure that would have stopped Hunter from causing the ruckus. It isn't like everyone just stops playing.
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They reviewed this play and the aftermath. They assessed 1 personal on dickinson and 4 technical fouls. 1 on dickinson, 1 on love, and 2 others I don't know who on but I think Bacot was one of them. Thus, I don't see the comparison of saying whataboutism regarding a play with nothing called and refused to be reviewed in regards to a play after the fact that was led up to, was reviewed, and a personal and 4 technicals were assessed during.

Y'kno
 
Yeah, he should have just said, 'Yeah, that was a foul on Hunter but.." and then talk about the screen. Seems reasonable that even a Michigan fan could admit they may have gotten away with one without trying to change the argument into something else. You've been here long enough to know that wasn't going to happen though.
 
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