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[WeAreDePaul]

the free throw discrepancy in last night's Northwestern vs Purdue game.

Does this mark the end of college basketball? Is the game so rigged that we now have blatant ref favoritism on display with no shame or even attempt to hide it?



Just a pathetic black eye for the sport last night at a time when the sport can't afford more black eyes.


Lost a little of my love for the sport last night.

 

[MGO2022]

Northwestern still almost pulled it off

 

[mcnicKY91]

the free throw discrepancy in last night's Northwestern vs Purdue game.

Does this mark the end of college basketball? Is the game so rigged that we now have blatant ref favoritism on display with no shame or even attempt to hide it?



Just a pathetic black eye for the sport last night at a time when the sport can't afford more black eyes.


Lost a little of my love for the sport last night.

Yeah I just responded in another thread to this FT stat from last night's game...

How does that happen in a game? Absolutely ridiculous.

College officiating sucks. There is no consistency from game to game. And generally speaking, refs are way too influenced by the home crowd. It is just getting worse and worse unfortunately.

 

[MGO2022]

Big Ten officiating in a nutshell

 

[ExitFlagger]

B1G so desperate to get off the schneid that they're doing whatever it takes to get Purdue the overall #1?

 

[MGO2022]

B1G so desperate to get off the schneid that they're doing whatever it takes to get Purdue the overall #1?

If only Purdue get land a one seed then there’s no stopping them…

 

[boilerzz]

the free throw discrepancy in last night's Northwestern vs Purdue game.

Does this mark the end of college basketball? Is the game so rigged that we now have blatant ref favoritism on display with no shame or even attempt to hide it?



Just a pathetic black eye for the sport last night at a time when the sport can't afford more black eyes.


Lost a little of my love for the sport last night.

For those who want more than a drive by box score look and recognize context matters:

1) Purdue shot 10 free throws in the final 29 seconds after NW started intentional fouling
2) Chris Collins actually mentioned in his media availability early in the week that his team had 3 centers and thus 15 fouls to give when guarding Zach Edey. So his plan was to hack Edey.
3) NW is one of the more perimeter oriented teams in the country. They shot 27 threes last night. This is a big reason why they are 312th nationally in free throw rate.
4) On the flip side, NW under Collins recognizes that because of talent differential or whatever, they have to play physical. Thus, they are 327th nationally in defensive free throw rate
5) Purdue plays through the post more than any other team in the country. It's why Purdue is 14th nationally in free throw rate
6) Purdue does not play an attacking defense meant to generate turnovers. Hell, we are 285th nationally in generating steals. As such, Purdue is 8th nationally in lowest defensive free throw rate

 

[tw3301]

Remember this come tournament time and address your bracket accordingly.

 

[jwardelt]

Remember this come tournament time and address your bracket accordingly.

Will go down in flames early again. Probably not first round again but I'm not putting them in the final four.

 

[Toast.]

Northwestern is:

• 323rd in the country in fouls/possession
• 281st in opponent free throws attempted/game
• 320th in free throws attempted/game

Purdue is:

• 9th in the country in fouls/possession
• 9th in opponent free throws attempted/game
• 9th in free throws attempted/game

So a game with a team that is elite at not fouling and at getting to the line, against a team that commits a ton of fouls and rarely gets to the line, resulted in a big discrepancy in free throws. Why in the hell is that surprising and/or criminal? It's expected.

And to add, it was inflated by 10 free throws in the last 30 seconds due to intentionally fouling and two techs...in a game where Northwestern's admitted strategy was to use as many fouls as possible on Edey.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I don't watch a lot of Purdue, but one general complaint I've heard is that there's no limit to how long Edey's allowed to camp in the lane.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Northwestern is:

• 323rd in the country in fouls/possession
• 281st in opponent free throws attempted/game
• 320th in free throws attempted/game

Purdue is:

• 9th in the country in fouls/possession
• 9th in opponent free throws attempted/game
• 9th in free throws attempted/game

So a game with a team that is elite at not fouling and at getting to the line, against a team that commits a ton of fouls and rarely gets to the line, resulted in a big discrepancy in free throws. Why in the hell is that surprising and/or criminal? It's expected.

And to add, it was inflated by 10 free throws in the last 30 seconds due to intentionally fouling and two techs...in a game where Northwestern's admitted strategy was to use as many fouls as possible on Edey.

you need to take Edey's tiny Asian penis out of your mouth.

 

[Toast.]

you need to take Edey's tiny Asian penis out of your mouth.

Heard this turns you on:

 

[boilerzz]

I don't watch a lot of Purdue, but one general complaint I've heard is that there's no limit to how long Edey's allowed to camp in the lane.

I'm not a big fan of Ant Wright but he's decided to address this complaint this season. The reality is most don't understand how the college 3 second rule differs from the NBA, FIBA and WNCAA. Ant watched 3 full Purdue games and watched specifically for 3 seconds that weren't called and found one time in 3 games it should have been called. Here's some of his work:

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Heard this turns you on:

that's pretty hot.


My brother probably saw that a lot. Him and Collins used to work out together with the same trainer in high school when Collins was looking to play D1 and my brother was looking to play college hockey.

 

[boilerzz]

Note, the first one wasn't ruled a hook and hold and the 2nd one, no foul at all was called.

 

[boilerzz]

 

[Toast.]

View embedded media

Note, the first one wasn't ruled a hook and hold and the 2nd one, no foul at all was called.

I don't remember the second, but on the hook and hold, they didn't call a common foul either.

 

[boilerzz]

I don't remember the second, but on the hook and hold, they didn't call a common foul either.

I was thinking they did.

 

[all4theillini]

I remember the 1998 game when the Illini got Mackied by the refs going for a B1G title late in the season 37-9 (FT attempts). They went in a three game win streak to end the season and tie Michigan State for the title.

I always thought that was the worst case of homerism I’d ever seen until last night. No way I could’ve held it together all game like Chris Collins.

 

[IUfanBorden]

And to add, it was inflated by 10 free throws in the last 30 seconds due to intentionally fouling and two techs...in a game where Northwestern's admitted strategy was to use as many fouls as possible on Edey.

So really it was ONLY, 36-8?

Yes their strategy was to foul Edey. He shot 17 FT's.

So really, only 19-8?

Well that aint to bad, then.

 

[IUfanBorden]

What percentage does Edey make up for PU's FTA?

 

[IUfanBorden]

View embedded media

Note, the first one wasn't ruled a hook and hold and the 2nd one, no foul at all was called.

Hmmm...He gets fouled a ton. Absolutely. But he also gets away with his fair share as well.

 

[Toast.]

So really it was ONLY, 36-8?

Yes their strategy was to foul Edey. He shot 17 FT's.

So really, only 19-8?

Well that aint to bad, then.

It's funny how different you view Northwestern's fouling when Purdue plays them vs when IU plays them.

 

[IUfanBorden]

3) NW is one of the more perimeter oriented teams in the country. They shot 27 threes last night. This is a big reason why they are 312th nationally in free throw rate.

Purdue shot 21....

Purdue actually attempts more three's per game than NW: 22 per game....NW checks in at 21 per game.

Edey averages 10.5 FTA per game. NO one else for PU averages more than 2.5 per game.

This an "Edey" thing----not a PU thing. I mean Smith and JOnes combine for 4.2 FTA per game----they shot 15 last night. Buie and Barnhizer combine for 8.3 FTA per game----they shot 3. Smith took 7 shots, but shot 8 FT's. Buie took 19 shots, shot ZERO Ft's. Jones took 14 shots----7 from three. He went to the line 6 times----Buie, again, same zero.

Again, its an Edey thing. ANd it should be. But lets not act like PU doesn't fling it up from deep as well.

 

[IUfanBorden]

It's funny how different you view Northwestern's fouling when Purdue plays them vs when IU plays them.

It wasn't 46-8....MOF, IU shot more FT;s than NW(20-14). NW fouls. They do. No argument there.

But 46-8? That's crzy. I just wanted to see the reaction I'd get---And it was as expected. Now if shoe was on the other foor?------------Meh, I doubt the conversation would go as it is.

 

[Toast.]

It wasn't 46-8....MOF, IU shot more FT;s than NW(20-14). NW fouls. They do. No argument there.

But 46-8? That's crzy. I just wanted to see the reaction I'd get---And it was as expected. Now if shoe was on the other foor?------------Meh, I doubt the conversation would go as it is.

I always love your shtick with the refs. No one but you can criticize them lol.

A team that hacks had their bluff called. Tough shit.

 

[boilerzz]

What percentage does Edey make up for PU's FTA?

41%

 

[boilerzz]

It wasn't 46-8....MOF, IU shot more FT;s than NW(20-14). NW fouls. They do. No argument there.

But 46-8? That's crzy. I just wanted to see the reaction I'd get---And it was as expected. Now if shoe was on the other foor?------------Meh, I doubt the conversation would go as it is.

Aren't you the one that says looking at free throw attempts is a poor barometer of determining whether a game was fairly officiated? Wouldn't fouls committed be a much better metric to look at?

Prior to when NW started intentionally fouling, the foul differential was 25-15. That's 25 for the team that is 321st nationally in fouls committed per possession and 281st in opponent free throw shooting. And it's 15 for the team that is 9th nationally in fouls per possession and 9th in opponent free throw shooting. Now, given all that, does that really seem like a significant outlier?

As to whether I'd bitch if the shoe was on the other foot. If Purdue was 321st in fouling, you damn right I'd bitch. I'd bitch at my team for fouling so damn much.

Come on Borden, you are the voice of reason among the IU fan base. If this was Rutgers and Penn State with that foul differential, would you even be interjecting? Don't let your Purdue bias drive the rhetoric that so many others who were too lazy to watch the game are spewing.

 

[boilerzz]

Purdue shot 21....

Purdue actually attempts more three's per game than NW: 22 per game....NW checks in at 21 per game.

Edey averages 10.5 FTA per game. NO one else for PU averages more than 2.5 per game.

This an "Edey" thing----not a PU thing. I mean Smith and JOnes combine for 4.2 FTA per game----they shot 15 last night. Buie and Barnhizer combine for 8.3 FTA per game----they shot 3. Smith took 7 shots, but shot 8 FT's. Buie took 19 shots, shot ZERO Ft's. Jones took 14 shots----7 from three. He went to the line 6 times----Buie, again, same zero.

Again, its an Edey thing. ANd it should be. But lets not act like PU doesn't fling it up from deep as well.

FYI - All 6 of Jones' FT attempts occurred as NW was intentionally fouling. Add that 4 of Gillis' were the technical free throws. If you ignore those, the non-Edey foul differential was 9 to 8.

Bottom line - NW purposefully hacked Edey and sent him to the line 17 times. And they intentionally gave Purdue 10 free throw attempts in the last 30 seconds. Beyond that, it was pretty evenly called.

 

[IUfanBorden]

FYI - All 6 of Jones' FT attempts occurred as NW was intentionally fouling. Add that 4 of Gillis' were the technical free throws. If you ignore those, the non-Edey foul differential was 9 to 8.

Bottom line - NW purposefully hacked Edey and sent him to the line 17 times. And they intentionally gave Purdue 10 free throw attempts in the last 30 seconds. Beyond that, it was pretty evenly called.

Gotcha,,,

 

[IUfanBorden]

Aren't you the one that says looking at free throw attempts is a poor barometer of determining whether a game was fairly officiated? Wouldn't fouls committed be a much better metric to look at?

Prior to when NW started intentionally fouling, the foul differential was 25-15. That's 25 for the team that is 321st nationally in fouls committed per possession and 281st in opponent free throw shooting. And it's 15 for the team that is 9th nationally in fouls per possession and 9th in opponent free throw shooting. Now, given all that, does that really seem like a significant outlier?

As to whether I'd bitch if the shoe was on the other foot. If Purdue was 321st in fouling, you damn right I'd bitch. I'd bitch at my team for fouling so damn much.

Come on Borden, you are the voice of reason among the IU fan base. If this was Rutgers and Penn State with that foul differential, would you even be interjecting? Don't let your Purdue bias drive the rhetoric that so many others who were too lazy to watch the game are spewing.

Not at all....Just some entertainment. I only saw last few minutes. I didn't know there was such a difference until today----I wonderd why COllins was so mad. I kept looking for a foul at the end---thinking that is what had him mad.

NW fouls a ton. Its not surprising there was a difference. Add the techs and intentional fouls---around 10....Edey's 17, and the difference is like 21-8. Which isn't bad at all.

 

[IUfanBorden]

41%

Which is the ppint…..To say NW didn't get FTA because they shoot a lot of threes was sort of silly. Considering PU shoots more per game than they do. Last night, it was 27-21.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I always love your shtick with the refs. No one but you can criticize them lol.

A team that hacks had their bluff called. Tough shit.

Huh? Ya know go back and look at what I "criticize"---I complain about fouls being called from out of positon, mostly. Mostly things a common fan doesn't know, or understand. I watch the game differently. When fans criticize, its basically out of frustration---and mine too----But our frustrations are different. YOu think they are being biased, etc---And I'm pissed because a dude is coming from L position, calling a foul out of his PCA, which tells me hes more than likely guessing. And that drives me nuts.

But hey, its your story.

 

[boilerzz]

Which is the ppint…..To say NW didn't get FTA because they shoot a lot of threes was sort of silly. Considering PU shoots more per game than they do. Last night, it was 27-21.

NW being a perimeter oriented team was one of many factors.

 

[IUfanBorden]

NW being a perimeter oriented team was one of many factors.

They are to an extent...Run lots and lots of action, dedsigned to get 3's, or ISO. Run a very complex offense TBH. Lots of zoom action, with pin downs, and low box screening. Its hard to defend.

They took 66 shots. 39 came from two.

 

[boilerzz]

They are to an extent...Run lots and lots of action, dedsigned to get 3's, or ISO. Run a very complex offense TBH. Lots of zoom action, with pin downs, and low box screening. Its hard to defend.

I hate playing them. Uneducated Purdue fans think we should blow them out because they are less talented than Purdue. But they run a scheme that we struggle with, especially when we have a 7'4, 300 lb center.

 

[Toast.]

Huh? Ya know go back and look at what I "criticize"---I complain about fouls being called from out of positon, mostly. Mostly things a common fan doesn't know, or understand. I watch the game differently. When fans criticize, its basically out of frustration---and mine too----But our frustrations are different. YOu think they are being biased, etc---And I'm pissed because a dude is coming from L position, calling a foul out of his PCA, which tells me hes more than likely guessing. And that drives me nuts.

But hey, its your story.

Hey - I'll leave out my opinion on your ref critiquing since I generally enjoy our back and forths and think you're pretty fair.

But Northwestern just hacks and it frustrates me that it's like a national story that they got called on their bullshit. Even if you ignore the stats that showed this would likely be a high a FT discrepancy game to begin with, their coach literally said that they'd use 15 fouls against Edey in a press conference. Their stated strategy was to hack, they didn't get away with it, tough shit.

The other thing that annoys me is that the Big Ten has been shit on for years by the college basketball landscape as being too physical and allowing too much fouling and just mucking up games. Then when Northwestern gets called for this crap, now the story is that It's Actually Bad to call fouls and punish junk defenses.

 

[mcnicKY91]

Hey - I'll leave out my opinion on your ref critiquing since I generally enjoy our back and forths and think you're pretty fair.

But Northwestern just hacks and it frustrates me that it's like a national story that they got called on their bullshit. Even if you ignore the stats that showed this would likely be a high a FT discrepancy game to begin with, their coach literally said that they'd use 15 fouls against Edey in a press conference. Their stated strategy was to hack, they didn't get away with it, tough shit.

The other thing that annoys me is that the Big Ten has been shit on for years by the college basketball landscape as being too physical and allowing too much fouling and just mucking up games. Then when Northwestern gets called for this crap, now the story is that It's Actually Bad to call fouls and punish junk defenses.

Why did NW shoot 32 FTs in Evanston, and only 8 at Purdue?

 

[Toast.]

Why did NW shoot 32 FTs in Evanston, and only 8 at Purdue?

It’s the 4th time they’ve shot 8 or fewer in a game. They don’t get to the line often.