Prosperity gospel

[TheDude1]

Anyone else familiar with this? Anyone here a believer? Anyone here blown away by this?

There is this entire thing within Christianity (usually as part of the evangelical movement) called the Prosperity gospel.

Basically it says that if you are a good Christian you will get material goods and wealth, and in order to get material goods you have to give money to pastors and other representatives of God, and then God will give you more money and stuff because part of the deal is to get rid of poverty.

A number of the megachurches support this idea... Joel Osteen is one of the most famous, but there are a bunch of others who do.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017...steen-believes-prayer-can-make-you-rich-trump

Thoughts?

 

[Hank_]

Grifters gonna grift.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Scams

 

[Quavarius]

I think I saw a Pastor on the news yesterday asking for a private jet and he said, and I quote, "if Jesus was alive today, he wouldn't be riding on a donkey!"

 

[Quavarius]

Here he goes:

"I really believe that if Jesus was physically on the earth today, he wouldn't be riding a donkey," he added with a chuckle.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...e-falcon-7x-prosperity-gospel-trnd/index.html

 

[toonces11]

Anyone else familiar with this? Anyone here a believer? Anyone here blown away by this?

There is this entire thing within Christianity (usually as part of the evangelical movement) called the Prosperity gospel.

Basically it says that if you are a good Christian you will get material goods and wealth, and in order to get material goods you have to give money to pastors and other representatives of God, and then God will give you more money and stuff because part of the deal is to get rid of poverty.

A number of the megachurches support this idea... Joel Osteen is one of the most famous, but there are a bunch of others who do.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017...steen-believes-prayer-can-make-you-rich-trump

Thoughts?

Megachurches are a huge scam. Do they have a great message every sunday about being a good person----100%. Do they keep people in tune with whats really important in life----100%. Do most of their messages pertain to being good to all and advance civility---100%. Then they start asking for money b/c you know, god wanted bose speakers, fancy fountains, wifi, blue tooth prayer headsets and for the pastor to drive a g wagon.

Scientology is another version of corrupt "religions". The more you give, the higher in the church you stand.

I was raised catholic, went to Catholic schools my entire life------I don't donate b/c I don't know where that money goes. Give directly to those in need, not to people that will allocate as they see fit.

 

[Quavarius]

Not gonna lie, I used to listen to Joel Osteen (Bedside Baptist) and he's a great motivational speaker. But when he refused to open his church up for the Hurricane victims in Houston last year, I stopped listening. He had to be shamed into opening his doors.

 

[JimboBBN]

I think I saw a Pastor on the news yesterday asking for a private jet and he said, and I quote, "if Jesus was alive today, he wouldn't be riding on a donkey!"

54 million dollars. Absolutely ridiculous and a huge scam

 

[TheDude1]

54 million dollars. Absolutely ridiculous and a huge scam

But is it? I mean, millions of Americans contribute to pastors who practice the prosperity gospel... Like, they are really famous, and REALLY big. How can you tell what is a scam vs what is actually real, especially in religion, where it is so much based on faith in the first place...

 

[schoonerwest]

54 million dollars. Absolutely ridiculous and a huge scam

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Give directly to those in need, not to people that will allocate as they see fit.

This has always been my thing. If you believe in tithing, there is nowhere that says you must give your tithe to a church. I feel like it was meant to give to people who provide food, shelter and other humanitarian services. Some people believe that by giving to the church, they are doing just that. That may be true in some cases. But I am not a truster of men. I would rather give my money to organizations that I know give back to the community or directly to people in need.

 

[dukedevilz]

Not gonna lie, I used to listen to Joel Osteen (Bedside Baptist) and he's a great motivational speaker. But when he refused to open his church up for the Hurricane victims in Houston last year, I stopped listening. He had to be shamed into opening his doors.

Not sure you got the full context of the story.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017...ttacks-on-joel-osteen-rsquo-s-lakewood-church

Seed money leading to prosperity is an outlandish tale, though. I believe in tithing myself, but only when it's for building the community and focusing on humanitarian efforts. Also, my church doesn't have any paid local clergymen, so I have complete confidence in the distribution of the funds. Tithing should be a selfless contribution, not an act focused on one's own prosperity. Remember when the rich, young man asked Jesus, "What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" Jesus didn't respond and say, "Sell all of your stuff, give to the poor, and in return your wealth will increase 100 fold. It's a pretty sound investment, actually"

 

[CardinalBoiler]

Anyone else familiar with this? Anyone here a believer? Anyone here blown away by this?

There is this entire thing within Christianity (usually as part of the evangelical movement) called the Prosperity gospel.

Basically it says that if you are a good Christian you will get material goods and wealth, and in order to get material goods you have to give money to pastors and other representatives of God, and then God will give you more money and stuff because part of the deal is to get rid of poverty.

A number of the megachurches support this idea... Joel Osteen is one of the most famous, but there are a bunch of others who do.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/what-you-should-know-about-the-prosperity-gospel/

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017...steen-believes-prayer-can-make-you-rich-trump

Thoughts?

Those megachurches are nothing but a scam for grifters to get rich.

 

[toonces11]

This has always been my thing. If you believe in tithing, there is nowhere that says you must give your tithe to a church. I feel like it was meant to give to people who provide food, shelter and other humanitarian services. Some people believe that by giving to the church, they are doing just that. That may be true in some cases. But I am not a truster of men. I would rather give my money to organizations that I know give back to the community or directly to people in need.

Yeah---I feel the same way. One of my go to things is families in need at x mas time. Pick a letter off the xmas tree and you buy directly for them which is pretty cool. Don't get me wrong---churches do soo much, esp smaller community churches. But sometimes i get the feeling that funds are not being used in full for intended purposes on larger scale stuff. Marble bathrooms, high end everything....etc

 

[Quavarius]

Not sure you got the full context of the story.

http://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2017...ttacks-on-joel-osteen-rsquo-s-lakewood-church

Seed money leading to prosperity is an outlandish tale, though. I believe in tithing myself, but only when it's for building the community and focusing on humanitarian efforts. Also, my church doesn't have any paid local clergymen, so I have complete confidence in the distribution of the funds. Tithing should be a selfless contribution, not an act focused on one's own prosperity. Remember when the rich, young man asked Jesus, "What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?" Jesus didn't respond and say, "Sell all of your stuff, give to the poor, and in return your wealth will increase 100 fold. It's a pretty sound investment, actually"

I got the full context of the story and I know what he said and did before and after the public shaming. Again, you help on the front end and take care of whatever else on the back end.

 

[npreston]

IMO, it’s bullshit. Total bullshit.

“The god I believe in isn’t short of cash, mister.”

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Yeah---I feel the same way. One of my go to things is families in need at x mas time. Pick a letter off the xmas tree and you buy directly for them which is pretty cool.

Not sure if it is called the same thing, but it's called Adopt an Angle here and we do it every year. It's really cool, the card has the kids picture and name with a list of things that they are in to.

 

[TheDude1]

Not sure if it is called the same thing, but it's called Adopt an Angle here and we do it every year. It's really cool, the card has the kids picture and name with a list of things that they are in to.

"Come sit on my knee and tell me what you want for Christmas, you cute little acute!"

But seriously, that's a good thing to do. We have a woman near here who does that... you "adopt" a group of kids and buy their Christmas list for them. My father in law goes NUTS... some kid asked for an e-reader and he went and got like some top of the line iPad.

 

[toonces11]

Not sure if it is called the same thing, but it's called Adopt an Angle here and we do it every year. It's really cool, the card has the kids picture and name with a list of things that they are in to.

Yep--same, except our church doesn't provide names or pics. Just generally back story and interests. I'm guessing b/c the parents might be a little embarrassed that they are struggling a bit---i wish you could know more about them.

 

[JimboBBN]

But is it? I mean, millions of Americans contribute to pastors who practice the prosperity gospel... Like, they are really famous, and REALLY big. How can you tell what is a scam vs what is actually real, especially in religion, where it is so much based on faith in the first place...

Read his quote, man. No logical person can actually believe Jesus would be riding around in some 54 million dollar personal jet trying to preach. Dude rode around on a camel.

 

[TheDude1]

Read his quote, man. No logical person can actually believe Jesus would be riding around in some 54 million dollar personal jet trying to preach. Dude rode around on a camel.

Except that a LOT of people believe it! Like... the guy has three other planes or something... clearly a lot of people DO think that it works, that it DOES connect to to the promise of Jesus to get rid of unhealthiness and poverty. So how can you... tell?

I know that seems like... "Well, just LOOK, it's obvious" but what is obvious to one person isn't obvious to another, so how the heck can you tell?

 

[BasketBallJunkie-UK]

Religion has always been bullshit. Imaginary guy in the sky. Used to control the sheep. Now its getting into their pockets. The Catholic Church is loaded. Legal scam protected by the us constitution. Let the dumb beware...lol

 

[Da_Bull]

Joel olsteen worth 40-60mil, lives in a 10.5mil 17000 square foot home. Nope not a scam.

 

[TheDude1]

Religion has always been bullshit. Imaginary guy in the sky. Used to control the sheep. Now its getting into their pockets. The Catholic Church is loaded. Legal scam protected by the us constitution. Let the dumb beware...lol

 

[TheDude1]

Joel olsteen worth 40-60mil, lives in a 10.5mil 17000 square foot home. Nope not a scam.

Wait wait... scam, or evidence that the gospel WORKS?!

 

[toonces11]

https://www.cultwatch.com/howpastorsgetrich.html

 

[Mac9192]

Religion has always been bullshit. Imaginary guy in the sky. Used to control the sheep. Now its getting into their pockets. The Catholic Church is loaded. Legal scam protected by the us constitution. Let the dumb beware...lol

I was feeling a little down until I read this post.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Wait wait... scam, or evidence that the gospel WORKS?!

Works for who, though? I guess a good way to find out is to see how prosperous his members are compared to where they were before they gave him their money.

 

[bkingUK]

Read a book called Influence that outlines different techniques to increase influence, one being principle of reciprocity. That is that humans tend to reward others who they feel indebted to (whether they needed or asked for goods or services in the first place). So, there could be some amount of truth to it (like anything else).

Anther book, called The Secret, espouses the principal of attraction. This book is much more meta psychology, but sounds more like a Christian variation of that. The Secret promotes the idea that anything you want or need in life will be attracted to you if those are the thoughts you have on a daily basis.

I was listening to Osteen on Sirius one day for some random reason and was basically preaching this stuff. And it really makes no sense. For example, he said something like "if you take care of your parents you will be rewarded in this world and next."

Well, if you need rewards to take care of your parents, you have bigger problems to worry about. I'd suggest a psychologist.

 

[JimboBBN]

Except that a LOT of people believe it! Like... the guy has three other planes or something... clearly a lot of people DO think that it works, that it DOES connect to to the promise of Jesus to get rid of unhealthiness and poverty. So how can you... tell?

I know that seems like... "Well, just LOOK, it's obvious" but what is obvious to one person isn't obvious to another, so how the heck can you tell?

Unless you are just completely in the dark on things I’m not sure how you can believe what he’s saying about this plane.

 

[mebeblue2]

Not gonna lie, I used to listen to Joel Osteen (Bedside Baptist) and he's a great motivational speaker. But when he refused to open his church up for the Hurricane victims in Houston last year, I stopped listening. He had to be shamed into opening his doors.

he looks like a Weasel
he is one guy i can not stand to even hear talk
i watched an interview and they asked him about charging to hear him talk (i don't consider him a preacher)
they asked if someone could not afford to get in what does he do
he said they will set up a T.V. outside for them to watch

in the bible it says "they heal people in my name yet they are none of mine" i put him and many others in that category

 

[dukedevilz]

Religion has always been bullshit. Imaginary guy in the sky. Used to control the sheep. Now its getting into their pockets. The Catholic Church is loaded. Legal scam protected by the us constitution. Let the dumb beware...lol

I've never understood the smug sense of superiority displayed by atheists. You think religion is stupid? Fine, you can believe that. But you do realize that neither you or I can prove the origins of life? A religious person could scoff at atheists in a similar manner, simplify their beliefs in a very unflattering way. Something like this...

 

[JayhawkWriter]

I attended a mega church when my wife and I were vacationing in Branson. Right before the offering they announced that you could donate to the building fund by putting building on the info line of your check, or you could donate to the outreach fund to help missionaries....or you could donate to the gas fund to keep their private plane up and running. They seriously had a gas fund that they wanted people to donate to.
btw.....this is one of my favorite last week tonight with John Oliver. I don't like a lot of what he does.....his constant bashing of president trump has forced me to stop watching his program.....but his segment on megachurches is pretty good.

 

[JayhawkWriter]

I've never understood the smug sense of superiority displayed by atheists. You think religion is stupid? Fine, you can believe that. But you do realize that neither you or I can prove the origins of life? A religious person could scoff at atheists in a similar manner, simplify their beliefs in a very unflattering way. Something like this...

My brother told me he was an Atheist. I told him man I wish I had his faith. When he asked what I meant by that I told him that to look around, and see all the wondrous things on this planet.....and then to think it all happened by chance.....man that takes faith.

 

[bkingUK]

I've never understood the smug sense of superiority displayed by atheists. You think religion is stupid? Fine, you can believe that. But you do realize that neither you or I can prove the origins of life? A religious person could scoff at atheists in a similar manner, simplify their beliefs in a very unflattering way. Something like this...

If I was motivated today I'd rip you apart, but I'm not motivated today. So, you're right. Good game.

 

[bkingUK]

My brother told me he was an Atheist. I told him man I wish I had his faith. When he asked what I meant by that I told him that to look around, and see all the wondrous things on this planet.....and then to think it all happened by chance.....man that takes faith.

Now I'm tempted to really get into this, but still not motivated enough. You're right too. Good game.

 

[ThroughBlue]

Churches should be taxed no questions asked

 

[SNU0821]

Not gonna lie, I used to listen to Joel Osteen (Bedside Baptist) and he's a great motivational speaker. But when he refused to open his church up for the Hurricane victims in Houston last year, I stopped listening. He had to be shamed into opening his doors.

Completely a good reason to ditch him. I thought less of him since that point. If he really was the person he claims to be and puts out in the media, he should have opened his doors immediately with open arms.

 

[SNU0821]

"Come sit on my knee and tell me what you want for Christmas, you cute little acute!"

But seriously, that's a good thing to do. We have a woman near here who does that... you "adopt" a group of kids and buy their Christmas list for them. My father in law goes NUTS... some kid asked for an e-reader and he went and got like some top of the line iPad.

Seriously man. You’re weird AF. Seek help man.

 

[mebeblue2]

Completely a good reason to ditch him. I thought less of him since that point. If he really was the person he claims to be and puts out in the media, he should have opened his doors immediately with open arms.

we know why he never did it until he was shamed
there was no money in it for him
i will never believe that he is or ever was an anointed man of god