OT: Homeschooling

jhmossy

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Nope. So, maybe that is cause for concern. She can get supplemental help from a variety of sources, though. And most of K-12 learning consist of fairly elementary concepts, IMO.

I don't have a ton of issues about homeschooling from an academic perspective provided that the child is provided as good or better an educational process as those who attend public school. However, I think it undermines the role of a trained educator. Just because the concepts are fairly elementary does not mean that anyone has the ability to effectively teach them. That doesn't mean I think that everyone who is certified does a great job teaching either.
 

GE Nole

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Not a miracle. If that were the case, I wouldn't be leaning towards public school. My argument is that the things we want our children to learn is more likely to be internalized if they're being taught by their parents, than by the state. Why should impressionable kids be more swayed by the state? Not saying that is necessarily true. But it is a valid concern, especially if there's only a very small window each day where you can talk with your child.

And how I separate the confidence issue, is the fact that kids often take a passive role in class. The expectation is lower. They can go by unnoticed and only marginally improve. On a customized schedule, you can tackle any issue that concerns you. You can develop your own goals and plans. You can go outside the home, and talk with any expert on any subject. There are no limitations. The idea is you want to minimize cookie-cut schedules and cookie-cut learning. And it's not just about learning concepts. It's about learning skills. And because the whole schedule is personalized around the needs and interests of a child, I could see that atmosphere being incredibly beneficial. You gain confidence when you learn a skill.

Now, the socialization aspect really concerns me. That's what leads me to believe homeschooling could be wildly counterproductive. Being smart isn't that great of a skill if you can't relate and communicate your ideas effectively with others.

All the things you’re describing, in my experience, are not the difference between public school and homeschool. They are the difference between a good teacher and an average or worse teacher.

Differentiation was a key component of my classroom. I taught 9th grade and every kid studied the same overarching themes (let’s say our Unit Theme was “Perception is Reality”), but not every kid read the exact same story (or version of the story) or had the same level of assignment.

Further, there are curriculums like Montessori curriculums that don’t focus on normal lessons at all. It’s all done through projects and skills. And even in my class I told them my job wasn’t to get them to memorize facts about Shakespeare. My job was to give them a tool belt of critical thinking and reading skills that could enable them to excel on any test, not just a 9th grade English test.
 
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TheDude1

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All the things you’re describing, in my experience, are not the difference between public school and homeschool. They are the difference between a good teacher and an average or worse teacher.

Differentiation was a key component of my classroom. I taught 9th grade and every kid studied the same overarching themes (let’s say our Unit Theme was “Perception is Reality”), but not every kid read the exact same story (or version of the story) or had the same level of assignment.

Further, there are curriculums like Montessori curriculums that don’t focus on normal lessons at all. It’s all done through projects and skills. And even in my class I told them my job wasn’t to get them to memorize facts about Shakespeare. My job was to give them a tool belt of critical thinking and reading skills that could enable them to excel on any test, not just a 9th grade English test.

Not sure if it is a financial possibility, but something like Montessori might be what you want to look at.
 
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IUfanBorden

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I've known what seems like a lot of homeschooled kids. A few were normal, but most were socially awkward. Especially with the opposite sex.

Make sure you socialize them regularly if you go that route, would be my advice.
This 100%...My granddaughters are now being home schooled, after being "in school" for their first few years. Our daughter always makes sure to invite kids over for barn fires, birthday parties of course, among other things. Fortunately, we have a large family between us, with a ton of both boys/ girls....

I know a lot of home school kids, and like you said---few were normal, but most seemed uncomy around others..

For me personally, I'd prefer regular school.
 

IUfanBorden

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Not sure if it is a financial possibility, but something like Montessori might be what you want to look at.
Good friend of ours sent his child to New Albany Montessori...They really liked the structure. Young man is very bright, and does very well in school.
 

Bert Higginbotha

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This 100%...My granddaughters are now being home schooled, after being "in school" for their first few years. Our daughter always makes sure to invite kids over for barn fires, birthday parties of course, among other things. Fortunately, we have a large family between us, with a ton of both boys/ girls....

I know a lot of home school kids, and like you said---few were normal, but most seemed uncomy around others..

For me personally, I'd prefer regular school.

For a fact.
 
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Random UK Fan

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Just saying they grow up awkward and deprived more often than not.
Sounds like she wasn't deprived of everything . . .

200_d.gif
 

coryfly

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The socialization is the biggest concern for me. No question. If you can't relate and communicate well with others, you're going to have a lot of issues in life.

I don't know if I would want to add supplemental tutoring for someone in public school. Kids are already in school for 35 hours a week. Then you factor in sports/extracurricular activities, homework, time commuting, chores, and dinner. Doesn't leave a whole lot of time for anything else. One of the advantages of home schooling is everything becomes much more flexible. Spoke with a mom last evening that homeschools four children; she says they're usually done with school assignments by noon. So, you have a pretty big range to include social interactions and activities.

The biggest reason for homeschooling is you get to instill confidence, values, and character in your child. It's kind of a scary thought that the state, coupled with the influence of peers, could have a much bigger impact on your child than you could yourself. We don't want kids or teachers undermining principles that are taught in the home. Also, It's common for a parent to ask their child, "What'd you learn at school today." And they often respond, "nothing." I think it's sad when parents don't fully understand what their kids are going through - and they struggle to pry out any information about the happenings in a typical day. If we homeschool, we'd be directly involved with everything. You go at the pace needed - and you can customize everything. Not saying it's definitely the way to go. But, I don't think it's a completely terrible idea either.

What exactly do you think teachers work on that would undermine your principles? Seriously, not being a smartass here. I just have no idea. Based on all my years in the public school sector I've never seen anything taught or promoted that anyone would deem as a negative. That doesn't mean learning is perfect so certainly not saying that.

Kids respond nothing because they are kids who don't want to talk to their parents. Not because they don't learn anything. So if you mean you want to know everything that goes on then I would say that is the way to go.
 

dukedevilz

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What exactly do you think teachers work on that would undermine your principles? Seriously, not being a smartass here. I just have no idea. Based on all my years in the public school sector I've never seen anything taught or promoted that anyone would deem as a negative. That doesn't mean learning is perfect so certainly not saying that.

Kids respond nothing because they are kids who don't want to talk to their parents. Not because they don't learn anything. So if you mean you want to know everything that goes on then I would say that is the way to go.

Values being undermined would come more at the hands of peers, of course. However, I don’t believe the teachers are completely innocuous. It’s no surprise that teachers have a liberal bias. One study, conducted by Verdant Labs, found that 85% of elementary school teachers are Democrat. While this isn’t necessarily a big deal, I believe it’s only natural for teachers to express their views from time to time. And I imagine it happens subconsciously more often than not. So, children could be subjected to mild forms of indoctrination. If they’re repeated enough, it’s easy to not think critically – and just accept what is presented from someone with more knowledge and experience. And if you hear the same idea from more than one adult, all the more persuasive it becomes.

Presentism is one idea that I detest. Columbus bad. Jefferson bad. Washington bad. Okay, I doubt teachers are really aggressive when having a conversation in class. Yet, judging people from another era based on our current values and standards completely misses the mark. Common Core is another topic that doesn’t thrill me about public education. You could argue that Common Core represses thought and forces you to think one way. Some have contended that it stifles intellectual development because it effectively trains students to stop thinking. Interesting enough, the Math ACT Scores in 2019 had the lowest median score this century. I know correlation doesn’t mean causation, but I’m not convinced Common Core has been overly productive.

Also, given our current political climate, systemic racism is bound to come up in classrooms today. How many students know that there are no codified laws which preclude minorities from receiving the same benefits as everyone else? It doesn’t mean everything is fine and dandy, but maybe it means we could give more thought to an actual discussion than simply caving into groupthink. So, my overarching concern is that collectivist thought can quickly become the attitude of students.
 
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GE Nole

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Values being undermined would come more at the hands of peers, of course. However, I don’t believe the teachers are completely innocuous. It’s no surprise that teachers have a liberal bias. One study, conducted by Verdant Labs, found that 85% of elementary school teachers are Democrat. While this isn’t necessarily a big deal, I believe it’s only natural for teachers to express their views from time to time. And I imagine it happens subconsciously more often than not. So, children could be subjected to mild forms of indoctrination. If they’re repeated enough, it’s easy to not think critically – and just accept what is presented from someone with more knowledge and experience. And if you hear the same idea from more than one adult, all the more persuasive it becomes.

Presentism is one idea that I detest. Columbus bad. Jefferson bad. Washington bad. Okay, I doubt teachers are really aggressive when having a conversation in class. Yet, judging people from another era based on our current values and standards completely misses the mark. Common Core is another topic that doesn’t thrill me about public education. You could argue that Common Core represses thought and forces you to think one way. Some have contended that it stifles intellectual development because it effectively trains students to stop thinking. Interesting enough, the Math ACT Scores in 2019 had the lowest median score this century. I know correlation doesn’t mean causation, but I’m not convinced Common Core has been overly productive.

Also, given our current political climate, systemic racism is bound to come up in classrooms today. How many students know that there are no codified laws which preclude minorities from receiving the same benefits as everyone else? It doesn’t mean everything is fine and dandy, but maybe it means we could give more thought to an actual discussion than simply caving into groupthink. So, my overarching concern is that collectivist thought can quickly become the attitude of students.

Common Core is just a set of standards. It’s not a curriculum and honestly many states have their own modified standards anyway. So that shouldn’t be a concern.

But on the whole I’d say you’re trying to cross bridges that are like two continents away. At the end of the day, the vast majority of kids I have encountered end up a reflection of the values their parents teach them. 1st grade teachers have so much on their plate, I assure you they aren’t sitting around on weekends thinking up ways they can teach super liberal viewpoints about our founding fathers the next Monday.
 
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dukedevilz

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Common Core is just a set of standards. It’s not a curriculum and honestly many states have their own modified standards anyway. So that shouldn’t be a concern.

But on the whole I’d say you’re trying to cross bridges that are like two continents away. At the end of the day, the vast majority of kids I have encountered end up a reflection of the values their parents teach them. 1st grade teachers have so much on their plate, I assure you they aren’t sitting around on weekends thinking up ways they can teach super liberal viewpoints about our founding fathers the next Monday.

It doesn't concern me at the first grade level, certainly not. Overall, I don't think it's a major threat. But, I suspect it plays a subtle part in the system, as freshmen entering college tend to take on the liberal collectivist attitude. Again, I'm not really that concerned with the public schools messing up my kids. I'm only saying it plays a small part - and that the teachers aren't completely innocuous.

I just think there's merit in wanting to personalize teaching in a one-on-one way basis where a student can accelerate in learning. Public school doesn't scare me. I do think my kids could learn more at home, however. And if they can internalize the values that we think need higher priority, all the better. Just don't know if the lack of social interaction can compensate for whatever academic achievement is realized in the home. And I don't know if a few social activities a week can make up for that difference.
 

TheDude1

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I just think there's merit in wanting to personalize teaching in a one-on-one way basis where a student can accelerate in learning. Public school doesn't scare me. I do think my kids could learn more at home, however. And if they can internalize the values that we think need higher priority, all the better. Just don't know if the lack of social interaction can compensate for whatever academic achievement is realized in the home. And I don't know if a few social activities a week can make up for that difference.

Why do you think your untrained wife, who will be juggling other kids, including an infant, could teach more than a trained, experienced professional? I mean... just look at reading... what does she know about phonemes? Does she understand the impact of each of the vowels on the consonants around them in each situation? When we do book buddies with the first grades, I look at some of the stuff and see beyond the cutting and pasting (actually important stuff, for hand eye development] and see the science under it, and I am glad I don’t teach the little ones because I would be lost:)

And the social aspect most assuredly isn’t about a few social activities. It is literally constant; in every interaction, from dealing with someone who keeps leaving their stuff on your desk to dealing with someone who is whispering to you during an assignment to dealing with disagreeing about who gets to be QB at recess, you are learning how to interact with people who are not your family, which is basically the entire world and who operate in a totally distinct way from your family.

Public education definitely has shortcomings. But I’d be incredibly wary of homeschooling, especially with an infant on board.
 
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TheDude1

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What exactly do you think teachers work on that would undermine your principles? Seriously, not being a smartass here. I just have no idea. Based on all my years in the public school sector I've never seen anything taught or promoted that anyone would deem as a negative. That doesn't mean learning is perfect so certainly not saying that.

Kids respond nothing because they are kids who don't want to talk to their parents. Not because they don't learn anything. So if you mean you want to know everything that goes on then I would say that is the way to go.

In my back to school spiel I end with a few things I ask of parents... take away devices at bed time, make sure to have books around the house, keep in touch with me regularly, etc.

One thing I ask is that they ask their kids about school. By asking, all the time, they are reinforcing that school is important to them. And I always tell them “And if they shrug and say ‘nothing’... they are LIARS! We did not spend six hours here doing nothing!” It always gets a laugh:)
 
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GE Nole

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It doesn't concern me at the first grade level, certainly not. Overall, I don't think it's a major threat. But, I suspect it plays a subtle part in the system, as freshmen entering college tend to take on the liberal collectivist attitude. Again, I'm not really that concerned with the public schools messing up my kids. I'm only saying it plays a small part - and that the teachers aren't completely innocuous.

I just think there's merit in wanting to personalize teaching in a one-on-one way basis where a student can accelerate in learning. Public school doesn't scare me. I do think my kids could learn more at home, however. And if they can internalize the values that we think need higher priority, all the better. Just don't know if the lack of social interaction can compensate for whatever academic achievement is realized in the home. And I don't know if a few social activities a week can make up for that difference.

I thought your original question was asking about potentially homeschooling a kid in kindergarten or first grade. And you’re saying you aren’t worried about the liberal brainwashing for first grade...so what’s the concern?

It seems like you’re getting very consistent answers but you don’t like the answer so you keep changing the “concerns.”

Why do you think your untrained wife, who will be juggling other kids, including an infant, could teach more than a trained, experienced professional? I mean... just look at reading... what does she know about phonemes? Does she understand the impact of each of the vowels on the consonants around them in each situation? When we do book buddies with the first grades, I look at some of the stuff and see beyond the cutting and pasting (actually important stuff, for hand eye development] and see the science under it, and I am glad I don’t teach the little ones because I would be lost:)

And the social aspect most assuredly isn’t about a few social activities. It is literally constant; in every interaction, from dealing with someone who keeps leaving their stuff on your desk to dealing with someone who is whispering to you during an assignment to dealing with disagreeing about who gets to be QB at recess, you are learning how to interact with people who are not your family, which is basically the entire world and who operate in a totally distinct way from your family.

Public education definitely has shortcomings. But I’d be incredibly wary of homeschooling, especially with an infant on board.

Nailed it.
 

dukedevilz

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I thought your original question was asking about potentially homeschooling a kid in kindergarten or first grade. And you’re saying you aren’t worried about the liberal brainwashing for first grade...so what’s the concern?

It seems like you’re getting very consistent answers but you don’t like the answer so you keep changing the “concerns.”

Yes, the question was about homeschooling someone entering kindgergarten. But, we're talking about a 13-year commitment, potentially. Continuity is obviously preferable to going back-and-forth between homeschool and public school. So, eventually what teachers present might be a concern. While I am looking at the upcoming year, I'm also trying to evaluate the effects of the complete K-12 experience. And like I said, it's only a minor concern. I only went into detail because coryfly was curious of what I meant exactly. I've already said multiple times ITT that I still lean towards a public school. There are pros and cons to each, meaning this issue, in my eyes, contains multiple layers. In my original post, I explicitly state my concern for socialization - and the stigma of socially awkward homeschooled kids. I'm clearly asking about multiple years of homeschooling, as my kid's not going to do a complete 180 in social skills from a few months at home.


Our oldest child will be starting kindergarten this fall. Crazy. My wife is heavily leaning towards homeschooling. One of the advantages of homeschooling is kids can go at their own pace, and they often excel because of it. I worry, though, about the socialization aspect. We'll get her involved in soccer, basketball, dance, and other activities. Certainly. I just don't know if a couple hours a week can compensate for all the time away from peers. There's a stigma that homeschool kids are socially awkward. I don't know how true that is. I also worry how the wife is going to handle teaching when she also has a 3-year old and a newborn baby to deal with as well. There are pros and cons to this. Why do you all feel about homeschooling?
 
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dukedevilz

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Why do you think your untrained wife, who will be juggling other kids, including an infant, could teach more than a trained, experienced professional? I mean... just look at reading... what does she know about phonemes? Does she understand the impact of each of the vowels on the consonants around them in each situation? When we do book buddies with the first grades, I look at some of the stuff and see beyond the cutting and pasting (actually important stuff, for hand eye development] and see the science under it, and I am glad I don’t teach the little ones because I would be lost:)

And the social aspect most assuredly isn’t about a few social activities. It is literally constant; in every interaction, from dealing with someone who keeps leaving their stuff on your desk to dealing with someone who is whispering to you during an assignment to dealing with disagreeing about who gets to be QB at recess, you are learning how to interact with people who are not your family, which is basically the entire world and who operate in a totally distinct way from your family.

Public education definitely has shortcomings. But I’d be incredibly wary of homeschooling, especially with an infant on board.

Juggling multiple kids does concern me. For sure. That's a big reason why I'm in favor of going the public school route.

I know a few home school families. And honestly, the difference is quite stark. They're well-behaved, they're sharp, and they involve themselves with a lot of extracurricular activities. There's a 9-year old (normally 3rd grade) from one of these homeschooled families that's taking pre-algebra and is on course to finish her coursework by the time she's 13. I wouldn't want to deprive our kids of a childhood, so I wouldn't want to accelerate the studies that quickly. Just don't see much of an issue when a homeschool kid can get a lot more one-one-one time, the teaching can be customized to their wants and needs, they aren't afraid of asking questions, and a lot of life skills can be taught along the way. And yes, my wife is not trained in elementary education. But, neither are most parents who homeschool. And yet, the test scores for homeschooling kids are significantly higher. SAT average is 72 points higher. ACT Scores is 22.8, compared to a national average 21. It's not as if moms are simply using their own brain power. They're utilizing a vast array of resources from local experts on specific subjects, tutorials and guides online, lesson plans, and curriculum books.

The socialization component is a legitimate worry. That is much, much more concerning than my kids being taught incorrectly.
 
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GE Nole

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Juggling multiple kids does concern me. For sure. That's a big reason why I'm in favor of going the public school route.

I know a few home school families. And honestly, the difference is quite stark. They're well-behaved, they're sharp, and they involve themselves with a lot of extracurricular activities. There's a 9-year old (normally 3rd grade) from one of these homeschooled families that's taking pre-algebra and is on course to finish her coursework by the time she's 13. I wouldn't want to deprive our kids of a childhood, so I wouldn't want to accelerate the studies that quickly. Just don't see much of an issue when a homeschool kid can get a lot more one-one-one time, the teaching can be customized to their wants and needs, they aren't afraid of asking questions, and a lot of life skills can be taught along the way. And yes, my wife is not trained in elementary education. But, neither are most parents who homeschool. And yet, the test scores for homeschooling kids are significantly higher. SAT average is 72 points higher. ACT Scores is 22.8, compared to a national average 21. It's not as if moms are simply using their own brain power. They're utilizing a vast array of resources from local experts on specific subjects, tutorials and guides online, lesson plans, and curriculum books.

The socialization component is a legitimate worry. That is much, much more concerning than my kids being taught incorrectly.

Fwiw, the test scores are higher largely due to correlation with who can afford to do homeschooling. A single parent with a full time job can’t do homeschooling.

What that data is basically saying is, “kids who come from households where one or both parents are highly educated, highly engaged in their child’s life, and possessing enough wealth such that one parent can stay home all day end up scoring better on standardized tests.”
 
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dukedevilz

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Fwiw, the test scores are higher largely due to correlation with who can afford to do homeschooling. A single parent with a full time job can’t do homeschooling.

What that data is basically saying is, “kids who come from households where one or both parents are highly educated, highly engaged in their child’s life, and possessing enough wealth such that one parent can stay home all day end up scoring better on standardized tests.”

Yes, I'm aware of that. But, I'm also aware that not all kids take the SAT or ACT. In the 2017 class, 2.9 million kids graduated high school - and roughly 15% did not, which comes out to 435,000 dropouts. And Only 1.9 million enrolled in college. The overwhelming majority of kids that take the SAT/ACT will enter college. They're not at the bottom of their class. Almost 1 million kids graduated high school and didn't immediately enter college - those are the ones that are more likely to be in the bottom half of a standardized test. The national average is going to be significantly worse if those who perform poorly in school have their SATs factored into the median score.

This is deviating from my point, of course. My only concern with the education aspect is juggling multiple kids. The competence of my wife is more than adequate.
 
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1Tripoda

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Our oldest child will be starting kindergarten this fall. Crazy. My wife is heavily leaning towards homeschooling. One of the advantages of homeschooling is kids can go at their own pace, and they often excel because of it. I worry, though, about the socialization aspect. We'll get her involved in soccer, basketball, dance, and other activities. Certainly. I just don't know if a couple hours a week can compensate for all the time away from peers. There's a stigma that homeschool kids are socially awkward. I don't know how true that is. I also worry how the wife is going to handle teaching when she also has a 3-year old and a newborn baby to deal with as well. There are pros and cons to this. Why do you all feel about homeschooling?
We’re putting a lot of thought into this but just for one year. Kids are not going to distance themselves from each other’s
 
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dukedevilz

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We’re putting a lot of thought into this but just for one year. Kids are not going to distance themselves from each other’s

This is true. Kids certainly don't know how to practice social distancing.

Ideally, I would like to make a 13-year commitment and have continuity. However, it looks like schools won't even be starting in August anyway. So, maybe just home-school our 5-year old this upcoming year and just use that as a trial period.