OADs who have improved under Coach K and other 2 page books you can buy

[WeAreDePaul]

Seriously, I can't think of a single OAD who actually improved in his one year playing for Coach K. Can you?

Tatum? Nope
Gary Trent? Nope
Cam? LOL
RJ? LOL
Zion? Nope, he was awesome from day 1
Carter, Bagley, Cary? Nope
Ingram? Nope



I really don't understand why any top prospect would play for him. yes you'll still get drafted high, but not worth the price of wasting a year of development.

 

[ExitFlagger]

So....which coaches noticeably develop OADs?

 

[GhostOf301]

You must not have paid attention to Ingram or Tatum. Both of those players improved consistently through their one season respectively. I am not going to say it was because of some incredible coaching job by K. But what a dumb troll thread. What are some OADs from other programs that you think were improved by coaching?

 

[Villian07]

So....which coaches noticeably develop OADs?

None.

Some are better are preparing nba talents for life in the nba, like cal has had that said about him by nba execs. He runs his program like a nba franchise so apparently the rookie learning curve isn’t as steep. But if you aren’t an nba talent, he’s not gonna “develop” you into one. But neither is any other hall of fame coach.

Work ethic and god given talent. That’s what “develops” great basketball players. Not any college coach they spend less than a year playing for.

that’s the disconnect imo, the difference in preparing and developing.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

You must not have paid attention to Ingram or Tatum. Both of those players improved consistently through their one season respectively. I am not going to say it was because of some incredible coaching job by K. But what a dumb troll thread. What are some OADs from other programs that you think were improved by coaching?

i don't agree on Tatum. He was nothing special his entire freshman season and didn't appear to improve at all.

 

[Afamu]

i don't agree on Tatum. He was nothing special his entire freshman season and didn't appear to improve at all.

I hate it when NBA GM's and scouts post on here. Makes us all seem so dumb and uneducated.

 

[GhostOf301]

i don't agree on Tatum. He was nothing special his entire freshman season and didn't appear to improve at all.

That's fine. Your opinion. He went #3 overall though, K really fvcked him.

So what OAD improved under what coach IYO?

 

[Kevin Bryan]

You guys remember when Anthony Bennett went #1? That was funny.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

That's fine. Your opinion. He went #3 overall though, K really fvcked him.

So what OAD improved under what coach IYO?

SGA improved dramatically in his one year at Kentucky.

 

[ExitFlagger]

SGA improved dramatically in his one year at Kentucky.

So one name? From a school that's had 6,000 OADs?

Embiid improved by leaps and bounds. Not that I credit Self's wizardry for that. Oubre improved a lot too. Off the top of my head.

 

[AWilli6995]

Tyler Herro was another one. He wasn't on anyone's draft board before his freshman season.

 

[JimboBBN]

Cal has had a few duds (mainly because they were pussies) but he’s also had quite a few four star or fringe five guys that played a lot better than anyone expected.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Tyler Herro was another one. He wasn't on anyone's draft board before his freshman season.

Doesn't necessarily mean he improved a ton from the first game to the last. I don't know if he did or didn't.

 

[AWilli6995]

Doesn't necessarily mean he improved a ton from the first game to the last. I don't know if he did or didn't.

He improved enough to be a lottery pick and again no one had him slotted there. Also he originally committed to Wisconsin and had he went there do you think he would of been a lottery pick as a freshman?

 

[WeAreDePaul]

So one name? From a school that's had 6,000 OADs?

Embiid improved by leaps and bounds. Not that I credit Self's wizardry for that. Oubre improved a lot too. Off the top of my head.

he literally asked for one name.

 

[dukedevilz]

Tyler Herro was another one. He wasn't on anyone's draft board before his freshman season.

Zion knew. Start at around 1:30

 

[dukedevilz]

I thought Austin Rivers, Tyus Jones, Justise Winslow, and Brandon Ingram all showed steady improvements. Ingram may have been the best example. Averaged 10.8 ppg in his first 7 games - and 18.9 ppg in his final 29.

 

[JimboBBN]

I thought Austin Rivers, Tyus Jones, Justise Winslow, and Brandon Ingram all showed steady improvements. Ingram may have been the best example. Averaged 10.8 ppg in his first 7 games - and 18.9 ppg in his final 29.

Ingram has taken a similar route as far as development for the NBA. These past two years, he has really shined

 

[dukedevilz]

Ingram has taken a similar route as far as development for the NBA. These past two years, he has really shined

I remember watching him at the 2k Classic in NYC against Georgetown and VCU. He looked really, really average - and lost. And not confident. Was a completely different player by the end of the season.

He's finally transformed into the star that many of us thought he would become. But, he was anything but a superstar when he first arrived on Duke's campus.

 

[Afamu]

I remember watching him at the 2k Classic in NYC against Georgetown and VCU. He looked really, really average - and lost. And not confident. Was a completely different player by the end of the season.

He's finally transformed into the star that many of us thought he would become. But, he was anything but a superstar when he first arrived on Duke's campus.

I saw him at the HSOT in Raleigh as a 9th grader and then when he committed to Duke, I wasnt that thrilled, except for beating UNc in the recruiting battle. But where he is in the NBA is very surprising to me. Must be working hard.

 

[Afamu]

Seriously, I can't think of a single OAD who actually improved in his one year playing for Coach K. Can you?

Tatum? Nope
Gary Trent? Nope
Cam? LOL
RJ? LOL
Zion? Nope, he was awesome from day 1
Carter, Bagley, Cary? Nope
Ingram? Nope



I really don't understand why any top prospect would play for him. yes you'll still get drafted high, but not worth the price of wasting a year of development.

Tyus Jones
Justice Winslow
Brandon Ingram
Luoul Deng

 

[coryfly]

Coaches aren't dramatically improving a guy over a one year period. There just isn't enough time for that. Players can individually improve for sure but it is generally a credit to them or simply a developmental leap. This idea of criticizing or praising coaches for a player being good or bad is silly.

 

[Afamu]

Coaches aren't dramatically improving a guy over a one year period. There just isn't enough time for that. Players can individually improve for sure but it is generally a credit to them or simply a developmental leap. This idea of criticizing or praising coaches for a player being good or bad is silly.

So you dont think a coach can have an impact with the fundamentals over 100's of practices? Or technique.

I know my son made a major leap in footwork as an O lineman from one level to the next, based solely on coaching.

 

[coryfly]

They don't have intense, one on one, developmental impact in one year of college basketball considering the practice time. I think you overestimate the impact and time they have with these guys.

I mean, I would love to give credit to Roy for Coby White blowing up or Cam Johnson having his best year and getting drafted or whatever but just think we all overestimate coaches in terms of player development at the college level. I think it happens a lot more at the next level because of the time they have and intense individual training they have. If they have awful HS coaching they can improve fundamentals for sure but that doesn't really seem to be what we are talking about here. That doesn't mean the impact is zero.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Coaches aren't dramatically improving a guy over a one year period. There just isn't enough time for that. Players can individually improve for sure but it is generally a credit to them or simply a developmental leap. This idea of criticizing or praising coaches for a player being good or bad is silly.

Yep, and it's not like they even have them there for a year. Kids will get there in August typically but during the summer they are just weight training, individual workouts, and playing pick-up amongst each other. Coaches aren't allowed to have much, if any, instruction with players until practice officially starts. So basically they have them from mid to late Oct until mid-March/early April, or essentially 5 months.

 

[Afamu]

They don't have intense, one on one, developmental impact in one year of college basketball considering the practice time. I think you overestimate the impact and time they have with these guys.

I mean, I would love to give credit to Roy for Coby White blowing up or Cam Johnson having his best year and getting drafted or whatever but just think we all overestimate coaches in terms of player development at the college level. I think it happens a lot more at the next level because of the time they have and intense individual training they have. If they have awful HS coaching they can improve fundamentals for sure but that doesn't really seem to be what we are talking about here. That doesn't mean the impact is zero.

We disagree.

 

[toonces11]

Somebody better hire Wiggins high school coach b/c he never got better from senior year of high school on.

 

[GhostOf301]

he literally asked for one name.

I actually asked what are some OADs and what coach. The second time I asked, it kinda looked like maybe I only wanted one example.

So you think SGA's improvements were because of how great of a coach Calipari is? Does K get the same credit for Winslow? Just as an example.

 

[Afamu]

Somebody better hire Wiggins high school coach b/c he never got better from senior year of high school on.

He starts in the NBA.

 

[Random UK Fan]

Seriously, I can't think of a single OAD who actually improved in his one year playing for Coach K. Can you?

Tatum? Nope
Gary Trent? Nope
Cam? LOL
RJ? LOL
Zion? Nope, he was awesome from day 1
Carter, Bagley, Cary? Nope
Ingram? Nope



I really don't understand why any top prospect would play for him. yes you'll still get drafted high, but not worth the price of wasting a year of development.

You get your choice of either a Moon Pie or a Pennywhistle for the thread title alone!

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Somebody better hire Wiggins high school coach b/c he never got better from senior year of high school on.

I remember when the "generational talent" hype on him was huge.

 

[Villian07]

Coaches aren't dramatically improving a guy over a one year period. There just isn't enough time for that. Players can individually improve for sure but it is generally a credit to them or simply a developmental leap. This idea of criticizing or praising coaches for a player being good or bad is silly.

Great post, and couldn’t agree more. Especially when the whole premise of who “improved or got drafted higher than they were slotted” is based off of rankings of high school kids all over the nation. Which I imagine is watching a few high profile HS games live and then watching YouTube clips of the thousands of HS prospects.

 

[Villian07]

I actually asked what are some OADs and what coach. The second time I asked, it kinda looked like maybe I only wanted one example.

So you think SGA's improvements were because of how great of a coach Calipari is? Does K get the same credit for Winslow? Just as an example.

I think SGAs improvements were due to him replacing the higher rated burger boy quade green in the starting lineup and thus got more mins until green eventually quit.

But sga was better than green from game 1 imo. I’m not gonna say cal had no impact or helped him none, but you also can’t give him total credit for sga unless you acknowledge him as a total failure for quade green.

I still think we are using the word develop when we really mean prepare. Imo most of the OaDs would be OaDs regardless of college. Dude mentioned herro at wisky hypothetical. Hell without pj Washington and Keldon johnson to share shots with Herro might have avg 30 a game at wisky and dominated the “less athletic” big 10. Not likely, but not impossible either, he’s looked damn good in the nba so far. If he can do it in the NBA why in the world couldn’t he do it at Wisconsin.

 

[Villian07]

We disagree.

Not really a fair comparison comparing football to basketball just bc there are so many more positions/plays/schemes.

Football has roughly 15 different positions, if you consider LT and RT and LG and RG the same as well as outside WRs and DBs and DEs. So more players, more positions, more coaches on the staff.

Basketball of course only has 5 positions, and everyone is on the court at the same time, no offense/defense switch etc. So I’m saying that I feel like basketball players get a helluva lot more “coaching” on technique and fundamentals and what not at a younger age.

Plus when you factor in the HS season with aau ball and high school kids might be playing as many basketball games a year as NBA players do, where as again in football they get like 10-15 games a year.

And you can work on your basketball game by yourself, which you can’t really in football outside of lifting and conditioning.

I said all that so say that I feel like college football players get a lot more one on one time with their coaches or even when breaking up into drills for different positions, they are getting more one on one coaching than basketball players imo. Like mentioned, ncaa limits the amount of practice time with coaches, so I have to believe they use more of that time working on “team” stuff and game situation stuff as opposed to individual workouts on fundamentals or drills. But that’s just my opinion and really don’t know how coaches run their basketball practices.

 

[Afamu]

Not really a fair comparison comparing football to basketball just bc there are so many more positions/plays/schemes.

Football has roughly 15 different positions, if you consider LT and RT and LG and RG the same as well as outside WRs and DBs and DEs. So more players, more positions, more coaches on the staff.

Basketball of course only has 5 positions, and everyone is on the court at the same time, no offense/defense switch etc. So I’m saying that I feel like basketball players get a helluva lot more “coaching” on technique and fundamentals and what not at a younger age.

Plus when you factor in the HS season with aau ball and high school kids might be playing as many basketball games a year as NBA players do, where as again in football they get like 10-15 games a year.

And you can work on your basketball game by yourself, which you can’t really in football outside of lifting and conditioning.

I said all that so say that I feel like college football players get a lot more one on one time with their coaches or even when breaking up into drills for different positions, they are getting more one on one coaching than basketball players imo. Like mentioned, ncaa limits the amount of practice time with coaches, so I have to believe they use more of that time working on “team” stuff and game situation stuff as opposed to individual workouts on fundamentals or drills. But that’s just my opinion and really don’t know how coaches run their basketball practices.

You do realize that a college hoops team has around 12 players, maybe 13. Most college hoops programs have 4-5 assistant coaches. So 1 coach for 2-3 players. They have shooting coaches, big men coaches and head coaches. I have been to a Duke practice. Individual instruction was big. They talk about 1:1 film sessions, 1:1 skills work, etc.

So again, we disagree.

 

[Villian07]

You do realize that a college hoops team has around 12 players, maybe 13. Most college hoops programs have 4-5 assistant coaches. So 1 coach for 2-3 players. They have shooting coaches, big men coaches and head coaches. I have been to a Duke practice. Individual instruction was big. They talk about 1:1 film sessions, 1:1 skills work, etc.

So again, we disagree.

My football/basketball compairson was meant to show that football has a lot more moving parts and is more complex than basketball. Which is why it’s very plausible your son had a huge learning curve moving up a level.

Like you said, in basketball, you need a HC a big man coach, a shooting coach, and then it’s just usually ppl with recruiting ties.

So the practice you attended they talked about 1:1 skills work or they spent practice time running 1:1 drills to improve skills?

Also not sure of the adv of watching film 1:1 or as a team but that’s neither here nor there.

I really have no clue about how practices are run, I just have a hard time believing at this level of basketball, players are dribbling through cones at practice or running the three man weave up and down the court to work on passing like we used to do in middle school basketball practice. But I’ve been wrong plenty of times before.

 

[Afamu]

My football/basketball compairson was meant to show that football has a lot more moving parts and is more complex than basketball. Which is why it’s very plausible your son had a huge learning curve moving up a level.

Like you said, in basketball, you need a HC a big man coach, a shooting coach, and then it’s just usually ppl with recruiting ties.

So the practice you attended they talked about 1:1 skills work or they spent practice time running 1:1 drills to improve skills?

Also not sure of the adv of watching film 1:1 or as a team but that’s neither here nor there.

I really have no clue about how practices are run, I just have a hard time believing at this level of basketball, players are dribbling through cones at practice or running the three man weave up and down the court to work on passing like we used to do in middle school basketball practice. But I’ve been wrong plenty of times before.

They worked on 1:1 moves. Not sure if you have watched, but Mark Williams from Duke has improved dramatically since arriving at Duke.

 

[Villian07]

No I’m not familiar with Mark Williams. He a frosh from duke? Brakefield (wrong but close I think) hurt, steward and johnson are about the only duke players I could recognize if I saw them on the street.

I’m not arguing that players don’t improve from coaching or anything like that. I just assumed with limited practice time, most of the practices would be working as a team or going through game situations or working on executing their offense/defense or just scrimmaging 5-5 moreso than individual drills. But I’ve never attended a practice, so you are more informed than me.

So I’ll take my crow well done I guess, A1 on the side.

 

[coryfly]

No, you are correct. Players improve but in one year on a college campus the amount of credit coaches sometimes get for it is simply silly. Mostly from fanboys wanting to act like their coach is some super guru or something.

 

[Afamu]

No, you are correct. Players improve but in one year on a college campus the amount a credit coaches sometimes get for it is simply silly. Mostly from fanboys wanting to act like their coach is some super guru or something.

Is that why Roy tends to keep his around longer. How many OAD's has Roy had that turned into 2 AD or 3AD?