Name a Coach that doesn't warrant the hype

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

I disagree, Few has built a monster out there, he doesn't have a title, but he has a FF and his teams always have an elite offense.

Believe it or not, it's harder to win the NCAAT when you have been playing cupcakes for 3 months. That conference does very little to prepare Gonzaga for the bright lights.

Monson jump started the program.

Mark Few has only 1 Final 4 still...

For all those top seeds to only have 1 Final 4 makes you ask questions.

Few is a solid coach but not this elite coach some people think.

IMO Few is probably the most hyped coach.
People speak as if he is up there with Jay Wright or Tony Bennett.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Watch the end of UCLA vs Gonzaga in 2006


Few has had other coaches steal Final 4s from him.

IMO when we look at coaches we have to look at coaches who have lost Final 4s because of poor coaching
There are a few for Few.

 

[GE Nole]

Bruce Weber is an example.
After the run by Illinois in 2004-2005 people thought he was a legit coach

Weber is a solid coach like Chris Beard.

Sean Miller. I don't see where the hype is at.
He can recruit because he is at Arizona but no one thinks the Miller is an elite coach.

Regarding Chris Beard...
You are speaking about you...
I think most knew Tech was going to make a run because of their defense
Had a solid team with Jarrett Culver. Culver made a huge difference for him and made Tech a very elite defensive team.

Like I have said before. In college the coaches get the hype.
In the NBA the players. But ultimately it is a mix of both.
Some people mentioned Tom Creen. Creen has a Final 4 as well. But he had Dewayne Wade

Beard is a solid coach. There are 60-70 solid coaches who can make a Final 4 run.

Making one Final Four run doesn’t mean crap. It can be as fluky as a 4 game win streak.

Year over year success and performing well in your conference—the place where teams and coaches are most familiar with your tendencies and players—that’s what defines a great coach.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Making one Final Four run doesn’t mean crap. It can be as fluky as a 4 game win streak.

Year over year success and performing well in your conference—the place where teams and coaches are most familiar with your tendencies and players—that’s what defines a great coach.

We think different .

Regular season basketball games you never know where a team is at

NCAA Tournament games it is intense from the start

You are claiming games with teams not playing 100% intense basketball from the jump are more important than games that are...


Very few solid coaches stay in the WCC.
Mark Few was smart to stay at Gonzaga.

The level of coaching in a power conference is much different for the most part.

Steve Alford is a decent coach. But hasn't had the same success in a power conference.
Alford can out coach people in the MWC much easier than let's say the B1G and PAC

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Who is a better coach?
Mark Few or John Beilein

Regular season I think most would say Few.
NCAA Tournament Beilein has been as good as anyone recently before he left the game

 

[kyjeff1]

Some of the freshmen like Wall, AD, Zion, etc are absolutely like pros playing in college.

And if Cals program was the key to getting them prepared for the next level, he wouldn’t have so many 5 star MCDAAs that went undrafted or have already washed out of the league. For every shai and herro there’s a Harrison twin and green and Whitney.

Work ethic and god given talent is what separates the elite. Nothin calipari is whispering in their ears.

I never said Calipari simply waived a magic wand. You still have to put in some serious hard work and some guys simply don't do it.

But if you want to talk about what freshman didn’t pan out in the NBA, it's only fair that we talk about all the Seniors that went through 4 years under Pitino and never even sniffed the NBA. See how that works?

And no, these guys weren't NBA players playing in college, they were still developing and the NBA game is much different than the college game. There's a big difference between AD 2011/12 and AD 2020. Yeah, he was great in college, but he wasn't a pro yet.

Lastly, there's a big difference between Anthony Davis/KAT/Wall/Randle/Zion and EJ Montgomery, Hamidu Diallo, PJ Washington, the Harrison's, Hagans etc… , all were 5* rated, but the first group was transcendent, the others simply had measurables and athleticism.

 

[kyjeff1]

Bruce Weber is an example.
After the run by Illinois in 2004-2005 people thought he was a legit coach

Weber is a solid coach like Chris Beard.

Sean Miller. I don't see where the hype is at.
He can recruit because he is at Arizona but no one thinks the Miller is an elite coach.

Regarding Chris Beard...
You are speaking about you...
I think most knew Tech was going to make a run because of their defense
Had a solid team with Jarrett Culver. Culver made a huge difference for him and made Tech a very elite defensive team.

Like I have said before. In college the coaches get the hype.
In the NBA the players. But ultimately it is a mix of both.
Some people mentioned Tom Creen. Creen has a Final 4 as well. But he had Dewayne Wade

Beard is a solid coach. There are 60-70 solid coaches who can make a Final 4 run.

I mean, maybe you should watch ESPN and college gameday during basketball season. Sean Miller gets as much hype as any other top tier coach and I'm sorry, but nobody in the college basketball world thinks Bruce Weber is anything more than an average coach.

Chris Beard is the hot new toy that they want to talk about, nothing more.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

I mean, maybe you should watch ESPN and college gameday during basketball season. Sean Miller gets as much hype as any other top tier coach and I'm sorry, but nobody in the college basketball world thinks Bruce Weber is anything more than an average coach.

Chris Beard is the hot new toy that they want to talk about, nothing more.

ESPN isn't the college basketball world.
It is TV. Arizona is a big name school who recruits at a high level. Sean Miller is going to get attention..

People have to start taking what they hear from TV a lot less serious
Any promotion of Arizona is because they are a basketball school who provides ESPN programming at 7 Pacific Time.

Weber was another coach who many gave credit to
He is an example. Guy came pretty close to going into the NCAA Tournament undefeated.

 

[kyjeff1]

ESPN isn't the college basketball world.
It is TV. Arizona is a big name school who recruits at a high level. Sean Miller is going to get attention..

People have to start taking what they hear from TV a lot less serious
Any promotion of Arizona is because they are a basketball school who provides ESPN programming at 7 PT

LOL, name a bigger source for cbb information? Who carries more games than ESPN? Who has more cbb analysts than ESPN? Who has more programs dedicated to cbb than ESPN? Literally nobody.

I mean, that's what we're all talking about here. If you are getting your information from a local BIG12 location radio network, than I can see why you might think a group of people are overhyping Bruce Weber, but I'll tell you this, there isn’t a single soul on any national network that pumps Bruce Weber, but they do talk about Sean Miller.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Some of you may be too young...

But Illinois was a few seconds from finishing the season undefeated.
Lost the last game. This was a B1G that had 2 Final Four Basketball Teams

Bruce Weber was pretty much unanimous coach of the year.

This is why he is an example....

Still a solid coach. If you give Weber some of these teams that went to the Final 4 he would get you there as well.
But not the best at building those type of teams. As a lot of that team was Bill Self.

 

[kyjeff1]

Some of you may be too young...

But Illinois was a few seconds from finishing the season undefeated.
Lost the last game. This was a B1G that had 2 Final Four Basketball Teams

Bruce Weber was pretty much unanimous coach of the year.

This is why he is an example....

Still a solid coach. If you give Weber some of these teams that went to the Final 4 he would get you there as well.
But not the best at building those type of teams. As a lot of that team was Bill Self.

No, we all remember it, but that was 2005, Bruce Weber's 15 minutes of fame ended the second Illinois went back.into the cellar. In fact, most people don’t even remember that Weber was the coach of that team.
Again, I think you probably listen to a lot of local or BIG12 programs and they probably talk about Bruce like he's something special, but there is no national network out there that even mentions his name.

 

[GE Nole]

We think different .

Regular season basketball games you never know where a team is at

NCAA Tournament games it is intense from the start

You are claiming games with teams not playing 100% intense basketball from the jump are more important than games that are...


Very few solid coaches stay in the WCC.
Mark Few was smart to stay at Gonzaga.

The level of coaching in a power conference is much different for the most part.

Steve Alford is a decent coach. But hasn't had the same success in a power conference.
Alford can out coach people in the MWC much easier than let's say the B1G and PAC

This sounds like someone who’s a fan of a team that can’t win their conference in the regular season.

In the ACC it’s intense from the jump in every game. If you don’t bring it night in and night out, you’ll get beat. Period.

Making a random Final Four run can be complete luck. Look at Loyola Chicago or George Mason or South Carolina. But consistently finishing in the top third of your conference and consistently making the second weekend of the NCAAT year after year, that’s skill. That’s coaching.

 

[GE Nole]

Some of you may be too young...

But Illinois was a few seconds from finishing the season undefeated.
Lost the last game. This was a B1G that had 2 Final Four Basketball Teams

Bruce Weber was pretty much unanimous coach of the year.

This is why he is an example....

Still a solid coach. If you give Weber some of these teams that went to the Final 4 he would get you there as well.
But not the best at building those type of teams. As a lot of that team was Bill Self.

Too young, lol. We aren’t too young. We just know it was 15 years ago and was a one time fluke.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

This sounds like someone who’s a fan of a team that can’t win their conference in the regular season.

In the ACC it’s intense from the jump in every game. If you don’t bring it night in and night out, you’ll get beat. Period.

Making a random Final Four run can be complete luck. Look at Loyola Chicago or George Mason or South Carolina. But consistently finishing in the top third of your conference and consistently making the second weekend of the NCAAT year after year, that’s skill. That’s coaching.

You are still not getting it

A regular season loss doesn't end your season most of the time.

There is a lot more urgency in a Tournament game
Anyone who has played sports will tell you this.
You are different if your season ends with a defeat

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

No, we all remember it, but that was 2005, Bruce Weber's 15 minutes of fame ended the second Illinois went back.into the cellar. In fact, most people don’t even remember that Weber was the coach of that team.
Again, I think you probably listen to a lot of local or BIG12 programs and they probably talk about Bruce like he's something special, but there is no national network out there that even mentions his name.

He coaches at K State...

Solid coach. A lot of solid coaches.

Some solid coaches are ones you think are great

 

[GE Nole]

You are still not getting it

A regular season loss doesn't end your season most of the time.

There is a lot more urgency in a Tournament game
Anyone who has played sports will tell you this.
You are different if your season ends with a defeat

I played a varsity sport in the ACC. I get it.

The regular season in college isn’t some mess around time. There aren’t enough games to just flip it on and off like the pros can. You either are prepared and battle hardened or you aren’t. But hey, if this is how Shaka treats the regular season, we now see why he loses 15 games a year.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

I played a varsity sport in the ACC. I get it.

The regular season in college isn’t some mess around time. There aren’t enough games to just flip it on and off like the pros can. You either are prepared and battle hardened or you aren’t. But hey, if this is how Shaka treats the regular season, we now see why he loses 15 games a year.

You aren't getting the same urgency from the players

No desperation with the players and coaches.

Do you understand why I don't look at regular season.
I look at post season success
I would look at the ability to win games you shouldn't and to win the games you should

 

[GE Nole]

You aren't getting the same urgency from the players

No desperation with the players and coaches.

Do you understand why I don't look at regular season.
I look at post season success
I would look at the ability to win games you shouldn't and to win the games you should

Not being able to get consistent effort and urgency out of players is a coaching and culture problem. Come strap it on in the ACC, you better come out each night with a sense of urgency or you’ll get your doors blown off.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Bringing back Mark Few info this...

Just look at Gregg Marshall.
Especially with the move to the American

Gregg Marshall received a lot of hype but that hype went away.


They don't really hype the coaches at some of these schools as much as the schools themselves.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Not being able to get consistent effort and urgency out of players is a coaching and culture problem. Come strap it on in the ACC, you better come out each night with a sense of urgency or you’ll get your doors blown off.

Trying to sell a product.

Regular season basketball for the most part isn't the same because a lot of times you don't have two teams in the same place.

Tournament basketball is different. Both teams have that urgency and have to win.

You see much better who the great coaches are.

Winning 27 games in the regular season and getting free pass into the Sweet 16 doesn't make you an elite coach or even a great coach.

Those coaches are the teams you don't want to play in the NCAA Tournament because they are tough outs.

Michigan St with Tom Izzo for example.

 

[GE Nole]

Trying to sell a product.

Regular season basketball for the most part isn't the same because a lot of times you don't have two teams in the same place.

Tournament basketball is different. Both teams have that urgency and have to win.

You see much better who the great coaches are.

Winning 27 games in the regular season and getting free pass into the Sweet 16 doesn't make you an elite coach or even a great coach.

Those coaches are the teams you don't want to play in the NCAA Tournament because they are tough outs.

Michigan St with Tom Izzo for example.

So let me get this straight: consistently winning 25-30 games in a tough conference and making trips to the second and third weekend of the tourney equals average coaching.

But winning 19 games and making a Final Four run as an 11 seed equals great coaching.

Is this what you’re trying to convince us of?

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

You have this idea that winning in the NCAA Tournament is a fluke

I don't.
I think if you can get the mix of urgency/talent you are doing something special

Sometimes it is hard for some coaches to find this numerous times.

You see a lot of coaches who have ups and downs throughout their career

 

[GE Nole]

You have this idea that winning in the NCAA Tournament is a fluke

I don't.
I think if you can get the mix of urgency/talent you are doing something special

Sometimes it is hard for some coaches to find this numerous times.

You see a lot of coaches who have ups and downs throughout their career

I don’t have that idea at all. In fact, I said the opposite. I’ve been saying the consistently making the 2nd and 3rd weekend is a sign of great coaching.

Yes, doing something once and failing the rest of the time is a fluke. Like Shaka.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

I don’t have that idea at all. In fact, I said the opposite. I’ve been saying the consistently making the 2nd and 3rd weekend is a sign of great coaching.

Yes, doing something once and failing the rest of the time is a fluke. Like Shaka.

You continue to bring up the regular season.

Regular season would be a fluke.
NCAA Tournament isn't

What you can say about Shaka is that he doesn't know how to build a team.
Building a team is way more important than actual coaching.
His year of going to the Final 4 wasn't his team really. He has yet to show that ability at Texas.


This has nothing to do with Shaka. I have already explained his pluses and minuses on this message board many times.


I don't even look at the regular season when judging coaches

But when I see teams that are much better than their seeds and this happens consistently I wonder about the coaching
Steve Lavin when he was at UCLA was like this especially.

Lavin was pretty good at taking UCLA to the Sweet 16.


At the end of the day you don't win NC in January and February.
You win them in March and April.

I look at two things
1) Ability to put together teams with the talent to win
2) The actual ability to win NCAA Tournament games

Doesn't make how average or great a coach is in the regular season...

They earn their name in the NCAA Tournament.

Reason why I said I believe Mark Few is probably the guy you are looking for.
Few isn't anywhere close to Izzo and Wright.
Izzo been to what 8-9 Final 4s.

People speak as if Mark Few is this elite coach.
I have seen his teams outplayed and outcoached too many times in the NCAA Tournament

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Rick Barnes

He has beat UK recently so I guess that's something.

 

[ExitFlagger]

None of the coaches who are being mentioned are really hyped except maybe Chris Mack.

Chris Beard is probably one to look at.

I think he had his chance to win a NC but average coaching did him in
Tech should have beaten UVA
Beard follows that up with being a bubble team.
Pretty sure Tech will be at the same place next year.

A lot of this board believes Chris Beard is going to be a guy who makes consistent Sweet 16 runs


Maybe in the 3 years people will see this differently

Solid coach.
There are about 60-70 solid coaches in the game


Bruce Weber is another one.
But he doesn't get the hype anymore really. That quickly went away

Another solid coach.
With the right pieces can make a Final Four run or a little bit of luck

Your obsession with Beard is a little ridiculous. I almost hope that Texas can lure him away from Tech one day so that we can watch you pull a 180.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Your obsession with Beard is a little ridiculous. I almost hope that Texas can lure him away from Tech one day so that we can watch you pull a 180.

Just stating facts. He is a solid coach.

But there are some issues there. We saw a lot of them last year. The question becomes can he continue to have these huge roster changes every year. I don't think he can. Good chance if ends up like last year. Nothing fitting together and not really having an identity

 

[ExitFlagger]

You continue to bring up the regular season.

Regular season would be a fluke.
NCAA Tournament isn't

What you can say about Shaka is that he doesn't know how to build a team.
Building a team is way more important than actual coaching.
His year of going to the Final 4 wasn't his team really. He has yet to show that ability at Texas.


This has nothing to do with Shaka. I have already explained his pluses and minuses on this message board many times.


I don't even look at the regular season when judging coaches

But when I see teams that are much better than their seeds and this happens consistently I wonder about the coaching
Steve Lavin when he was at UCLA was like this especially.

Lavin was pretty good at taking UCLA to the Sweet 16.


At the end of the day you don't win NC in January and February.
You win them in March and April.

I look at two things
1) Ability to put together teams with the talent to win
2) The actual ability to win NCAA Tournament games

Doesn't make how average or great a coach is in the regular season...

They earn their name in the NCAA Tournament.

Reason why I said I believe Mark Few is probably the guy you are looking for.
Few isn't anywhere close to Izzo and Wright.
Izzo been to what 8-9 Final 4s.

People speak as if Mark Few is this elite coach.
I have seen his teams outplayed and outcoached too many times in the NCAA Tournament

Since you only look at tourney outcomes, what do you make of a coach who won big a few times but loses in the first two rounds every other year?

And did you only consider Wright a good coach after he broke through and won a title? By your criteria, he was pretty poor up to that point.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

I got big on Jay Wright in 2005

I thought UNC was a for sure Final 4 team. I saw Villanova...With I believe Randy Foye give them almost everything they can handle.
Villanova for the most part hasn't been an easy out.

 

[ExitFlagger]

I got big on Jay Wright in 2005

I thought UNC was a for sure Final 4 team. I saw Villanova...With I believe Randy Foye give them almost everything they can handle.
Villanova for the most part hasn't been an easy out.

Sometimes the ball bounces your way; sometimes it doesn’t. There’s no better example of that than Wright. He’s been a great coach for many years, but only recently broke through.

I think it’s silly to dismiss the regular season. You can luck your way into a victory or two. You can’t luck your way to a 30+ win season vs a strong schedule.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Just stating facts. He is a solid coach.

But there are some issues there. We saw a lot of them last year. The question becomes can he continue to have these huge roster changes every year. I don't think he can. Good chance if ends up like last year. Nothing fitting together and not really having an identity

In his one year at Little Rock, the team was far, far better than the year before or the year after.

He immediately made bottom feeder Tech competitive and had a batch of no-names in the elite 8 within two years. The next year he almost won the national championship vs one of the best teams in recent memory.

I’d say he deserves all the hype he’s gotten so far.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

In the NCAA Tournament everyone is attempting to put their best game of the year.

Some do and others don't.

That one "lucky" win isn't a fluke.
Having the ability to end another team's season is a lot more important.
This is when teams get desperate.


Regular season isn't like that unless you have a team on the bubble who needs to win at the end of year.

Team's go up and down during the regular season.
But very rarely are you Getting the very best of a team. More than that you aren't getting that with urgency.

 

[ExitFlagger]

In the NCAA Tournament everyone is attempting to put their best game of the year.

Some do and others don't.

That one "lucky" win isn't a fluke.
Having the ability to end another team's season is a lot more important.
This is when teams get desperate.


Regular season isn't like that unless you have a team on the bubble who needs to win at the end of year.

Team's go up and down during the regular season.
But very rarely are you Getting the very best of a team. More than that you aren't getting that with urgency.

No one’s going to deny that winning in the tourney is more valuable, but it doesn’t always indicate the superior coach.

A lot can go wrong in one 40 min game between teenagers with relatively similar talents. Throw in injuries, unfamiliarity with the opponent, short turnarounds, etc and anything can happen. You could line up the same teams two days later, with the same coaching staffs, and get a completely different outcome.

 

[sven187]

Some of you may be too young...

But Illinois was a few seconds from finishing the season undefeated.
Lost the last game. This was a B1G that had 2 Final Four Basketball Teams

People still curse the name Matt Sylvester around here.

 

[GE Nole]

Just stating facts. He is a solid coach.

But there are some issues there. We saw a lot of them last year. The question becomes can he continue to have these huge roster changes every year. I don't think he can. Good chance if ends up like last year. Nothing fitting together and not really having an identity

If you don’t pay attention to the regular season, then what issues did you see with Chris Beard last year? There wasn’t an NCAA Tourney. Based on all your previous posts, what Beard did in the regular season is meaningless.

 

[kyjeff1]

He coaches at K State...

Solid coach. A lot of solid coaches.

Some solid coaches are ones you think are great

Yes, but he's not over hyped. That is the subject of this thread.
Show me where Bruce Weber is over hyped. The only place that MIGHT over hype that guy would be a local radio station in Manhattan, KS, that's it. There is no nationally based network that has hyped Weber, even a little bit.

 

[dukedevilz]

Mark Few has only 1 Final 4 still...

For all those top seeds to only have 1 Final 4 makes you ask questions.

Few is a solid coach but not this elite coach some people think.

IMO Few is probably the most hyped coach.
People speak as if he is up there with Jay Wright or Tony Bennett.

All of those top seeds? He's only had a 1 seed three times - 2013, 2017, 2019. In 2013, they lost to Wichita State, a team that advanced to the FF and gave Louisville their toughest contest of the tournament. In 2017, they made it to the championship game. In 2019, they lost in the Elite 8 to Texas Tech, a team that easily could have won the whole thing. That's called March, not bad or mediocre coaching.

Who is a better coach?
Mark Few or John Beilein

Regular season I think most would say Few.
NCAA Tournament Beilein has been as good as anyone recently before he left the game

Few became a head coach in 2000. In that 20-year time frame, Beilein missed the tournament 9 times. Few never missed the tournament. Mark Few has also won 15 of his last 20 NCAA Tournament games.

n Jay Wright in 2005

I thought UNC was a for sure Final 4 team. I saw Villanova...With I believe Randy Foye give them almost everything they can handle.
Villanova for the most part hasn't been an easy out.

Villanova is a legit power. I just think it's funny how people overlook the fact that Nova missed the second weekend of the tournament 8 times this past decade. On top of that, they missed the second weekend in 2010, 2014, 2015, and 2017 as either a 1 or 2 seed. Given their seed line, you could argue they have a higher choke right in the initial rounds than Gonzaga. Obviously Nova's two titles compensate for their early exits, but they haven't exactly been the champions of consistency.

 

[Fight r8rs Fight!]

None of the coaches who are being mentioned are really hyped except maybe Chris Mack.

Chris Beard is probably one to look at.

I think he had his chance to win a NC but average coaching did him in
Tech should have beaten UVA
Beard follows that up with being a bubble team.
Pretty sure Tech will be at the same place next year.

A lot of this board believes Chris Beard is going to be a guy who makes consistent Sweet 16 runs


Maybe in the 3 years people will see this differently

Solid coach.
There are about 60-70 solid coaches in the game


Bruce Weber is another one.
But he doesn't get the hype anymore really. That quickly went away

Another solid coach.
With the right pieces can make a Final Four run or a little bit of luck

Yikes.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

If you don’t pay attention to the regular season, then what issues did you see with Chris Beard last year? There wasn’t an NCAA Tourney. Based on all your previous posts, what Beard did in the regular season is meaningless.

Except Tech was already playing for their spot

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Yes, but he's not over hyped. That is the subject of this thread.
Show me where Bruce Weber is over hyped. The only place that MIGHT over hype that guy would be a local radio station in Manhattan, KS, that's it. There is no nationally based network that has hyped Weber, even a little bit.

Example...

When a coach who gets overhyped doesn't deserve it anymore.
Weber still is a solid coach. He is just at the wrong school.