Mateen Cleaves found innocent of rape. Say again???

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by DrCorona, Aug 26, 2019.

  1. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Why do you think this has to do with Izzo? And his success? Ever think maybe it has more to do with the history, i.e. Payne, Appling, Walton, Nassir...Than it does with how many games Izzo has won? When your program is making news for rape cases, assaults...It kinda takes away from the benefit of the doubt, thingy.
    Has zero to do.with Izzo and his success.
     
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  2. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    You are being naive Sound, if you think trials ALWAYS reveal once and for all, what happened. Majority of the time...Yes. But let's not just pretend every trial.creates equal justice.
     
  3. SpartyRBS

    SpartyRBS Well-Known Member
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    Isn’t Nassar the only individual that you named to be tried and convicted? The others it didn’t go to trial but was investigated showing no crime?

    Again, internet rumors are great and all for trolling and such but doesn’t have a basis in reality. We have a clip of Payne saying she was raped after hours of interrogation without an attorney present. We have a clip of Mateen running after this girl and grabbing her. If that’s all it takes then sure. They for sure raped those girls.

    Let’s not act like the Central Park 5 isn’t a common occurrence among police and doing what it takes to get a confession or at the very least an answer they can use against the witness or potential defendant.
     
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  4. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Wow. So all but Nassar are victims? Cleaves, Payne and Appling were just 3 dudes, in the wrong place, at the wrong time? Hey...Maybe it was the same girl? Maybe same girl Walton jacked?
    Point is...whren you have these types of imcidents, reoccurring, people start to doubt. Innocent or not.
     
  5. SpartyRBS

    SpartyRBS Well-Known Member
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    They’re 3 separate incidents that happened over an 11 year period. One being by an alumni that hasn’t played in 19 years...
     
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  6. VulvHa

    VulvHa Well-Known Member
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    If you have a daughter the two schools that are clearly excluded as possibilities are MSU and Baylor.

    If you have psychopathic son that hates women, but is a talented basketball player, and you don’t want him getting in trouble with the law, the choice is MSU.
     
  7. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Name me another school that's had the same....Not to mention, the Payne & Appling case being, well....suspect. Then throw in Nassar, who apparently molested the entire campus..And well, the benefit of the doubt gets cloudy. Look, Cleaves very well may be innocent. Only he knows that answer. But as said, when you've had this reoccur, it just starts to stain the glass a bit.
     
  8. SpartyRBS

    SpartyRBS Well-Known Member
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    I don’t know about many schools and sexual assault as I don’t follow them closely. I follow MSU and by proximity UM. UM has a similar rape allegation with Brenden Gibbons and then Taylor Lewan threatening the alleged victim. I don’t know the details but no charges were brought forth after an investigation. It’s probably a he said/she said type case. Grant Perry stuck his hands down the pants do a girl waiting in line to go into a bar. He received a misdemeanor assault charge. Juwan Howard was accused by a woman for sexual assault and he too was cleared. This is as close as I can find to your Payne/Appling, Walton, and Mateen example.

    Things happen and that’s why we have law enforcement. What’s the point in endlessly arguing this stuff?

    Larry Nassar is a unique situation where a doctor used his privilege to sexually assault minors. MSU got nailed to the cross and even for instances, hundreds of them, where an assault occurred at a non MSU related event. It’s my understanding MSU is fighting these in court. The Med School Dean got a year in jail for negligence. It’s likely he could have and no doubt should have put an end to Nassar’s employment. I think MSU deserves the criticism but at the same time how much? Where do you draw the line? If Nassar assaulted a young girl halfway across the world at an international gymnastics event, is MSU to blame? Do they pay the settlement of like $1.5M? IMO, it gets murky at that point. MSU isn’t the FBI.
     
  9. MileHighSpartan

    MileHighSpartan Well-Known Member
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    In no way am I defending the players / MSU in the things that have been reported, but I think you guys are discounting the fact that your schools (and almost all schools) have had issues as well.

    You bring up Appling and Payne, who were never convicted of anything and the charges dropped after being investigated by multiple non-MSU entities:

    https://www.mlive.com/spartans/2010/09/report_two_michigan_state_bask.html

    "Ingham County Prosecutor Stuart Dunnings III confirmed his office decided not to bring charges after what he called a thorough review of the incident, which occurred late Aug. 29 and early Aug. 30 at Wonders Hall."

    "Dunnings said the police report and other documents were reviewed by at least two assistant prosecutors, including Debra Rousseau Bouck, who evaluates all criminal sexual conduct cases for Ingham County.

    Bouck reviewed "the entire transcript of the victim's statement, not just the snippets in the police report," Dunnings said, before interviewing the alleged victim two days after the incident."

    The accuser was offered the opportunity to meet again with prosecutors for reconsideration but declined, Dunnings said.

    The prosecutor said he consulted with Bouck for a review of her findings.

    "I asked what was decided, why it was decided and what the victim thinks about it," Dunnings said. "That's what I always do. Miss Bouck indicated there would be no charges, and the victim didn't have a problem with it.

    Or Mateen who hasn't been a student/player at MSU for 19 years and went to trial in a completely different court/county - and was aquitted, twice - as proof that MSU is somehow at fault. The public court of law determined he was innocent, regardless of what you believe. But hey, you saw an edited clip on Yahoo News without knowing a single other thing about the case, evidence, testimony, etc.

    Nassar is a whole different story. No one knew who he was until this story broke. He had nothing to do with any sports other than gymnastics, and he was also charged for assaults with the US Gymnastics Olympic program and a private gymnastics program that are completely unrelated to MSU. Terrible what happened and I'm not sure you'll find a single soul on this planet, MSU fan or not, that wants anything other than absolute hell for that dude.


    Indiana themselves has had quite a bit of trouble with campus rapes, as reports are rising: https://fox59.com/2018/02/01/data-shows-rape-numbers-up-in-bloomington/

    Indiana 1 of 12 schools listed as most dangerous for women, based on FBI statistics: https://collegestats.org/2013/02/the-most-dangerous-schools-for-women/

    Instructor at IU sexually assaulted 7 students, and IU didn't inform the police for over 6 months: http://specials.idsnews.com/titleixinvestigation/

    Indiana football player initially suspended, but allowed to practice with the team while his case is reviewed: https://footballscoop.com/news/not-handle-sexual-assault-investigation-football-player/

    "Indiana suspended Ellison on Aug. 24, fully aware Ellison was under investigation for sexual assault.

    At some point over the ensuing weeks, Ellison is allowed to return the team. He’s then allowed to return to the practice field, and Allen doesn’t refute that he may play on Saturdays at some point — all while his player is under investigation by the university for sexual assault against a fellow student."

    Female IU students protest that IU silences sexual assault victims in 2018: https://indianapublicmedia.org/news/student-protesters-say-iu-silences-sexual-assault-victims2.php



    Purdue has had issues as well:

    Nearly 22 percent of surveyed female undergraduates at Purdue University said they had been sexually assaulted since entering the West Lafayette campus in 2015 report: https://www.jconline.com/story/news/college/2015/09/21/survey-sex-assaults-purdue-colleges/72559846/

    4 football players accused of rape in 2016: https://www.hammerandrails.com/2016/11/16/13652194/four-purdue-football-players-accused-of-rape

    Court strikes back at Purdue's handling of campus sexual assault from last month: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ity-mishandling-of-campus-sexual-assault-case

    Purdue paid $200k in 2016 to settle with a graduate student who claims she was sexually assaulted by 2 professors: http://projects.chronicle.com/titleix/campus/Purdue-University-at-West-Lafayette/?case=370

    Of the 14 schools in the Big 10, Purdue University is the only college that doesn’t provide a rape crisis center:
    https://www.purdueexponent.org/campus/article_d4ac79d0-2587-5965-9d64-73ca371ba3ce.html

    Purdue football player sentenced to 37 years for attacking and sexually assaulting 2 women on campus: http://prev.dailyherald.com/story/?id=156411

    https://www.purdueexponent.org/campus/article_520eba08-0be9-596d-91c6-cf116090d24a.html



    Michigan has had their own issues:

    Michigan professor charged in sexual harassment last month: https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/07/...m-opera-professor-emerge-in-court-filing.html

    The cover-up of football player Brendan Gibbons rape in 2009, of which he was never expelled until after running out of eligibility: http://www.washtenawwatchdogs.com/u...igan-football-player-brendan-gibbons-for-rape

    https://www.chatsports.com/michigan...-it-people-need-to-be-fired-immediately-393#/

    Michigan doctor sexually assaulted his patients and had child pr0n in his possession in 2019: https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...doctor-sexual-misconduct-patients/3002488002/

    Wide Receiver Grant Perry charged with multiple offenses, including sexual assault in 2017: https://thespun.com/big-ten/michiga...higan-arrest-suspended-sexual-assault/7?amp=1

    https://www.mlive.com/wolverines/2017/08/michigan_wr_grant_perry_senten.html


    Woman claims she was raped by Chris Webber and current Michigan basketball head coach Juwan Howard: https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...ted-her/e5a8ddc7-8453-4917-8db8-35f93aa2db14/


    I tried to stay out of this thread, but you guys are acting like a bunch of saints when all/most schools have issues.

    Here is an interesting data set for crimes for each of the B1G schools between 2005-2015. Indiana had the 3rd highest number of rapes and the 3rd highest number of forcible sexual assaults (behind OSU and Michigan):

    [​IMG]
     
    49 MileHighSpartan, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
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  10. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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  11. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    The weirdest thing about this post is reading the first sentence last.
     
  12. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    You sound like my 9 year old granddaughter with this post...

    "But PaPa....sissy did it to..."
    Laughing
    I mean, really? Your rebuttal is to list what other schools have done? Jesus. No wonder Nassar was able to run rampant for years.
    Again...Im not arguing the verdict. Just giving a reason why some have, are, and why it's questionable. With MSU' s recent, and past issues, people are gonna ask questions.
     
  13. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    In no way am I cheering for Michigan, but Go Blue.
     
  14. SpartyRBS

    SpartyRBS Well-Known Member
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    You said in a post above something like “name another school that’s had similar cases of sexual assault”.

    So I posted some stuff off hand and that guy followed it up with a post cited by a bunch of websites and examples from just the fan bases in here ripping MSU. He didn’t even include the countless examples elsewhere.

    Nassar is a unique and terrible tragedy. The other examples? Uh, look in the mirror. Now go to an IU and Purdue board and get on your soap box crusade for sexual assault. Any opinions on your own university from the examples above? Any thoughts on the links provided and the details of your own glass house?

    MileHighSpartan absolutely owned you.
     
  15. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Lol...He showed ONE case of an Athlete, at Indiana .
    Another case was from 2005[Purdue].

    Another case was from 1998[Webber at Michigan].

    The Michigan doctor case...Really? Dude was from Missouri , who moved to Michigan...He was a doctor. Not a player...Not a coach. .Not a professor . He was a doctor . Yeah...thats the same as having 3 PLAYERS from your program, charged with RAPE, in the past 10 years.

    Yeah. He certainly owned me. Me.thinks you both misunderstood the question .
     
  16. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    You really want to go down this road? I mean we can. Your dude posted.cases ranging from 1998, to I guess somewhat recently . He did this to "show me", that it's not just MSU. Well, I never said it was. I said show me.another school with MSU's, most recent issues. And/or the past 10 years. He then post something from 2005...Then from 1998.

    And you applauded this.
    So,.i did my own research. And in about 20 minutes, here is what I found:
    Since 2007, At least 16 MSU football players habe been accused of rape, or some type of sexual.assault.
    Yikes.
    In 2018, 3 former MSU FB players plead guilty to seduction. They were charged with much more serious crimes.
    And that's just.the FB program.
    Since 2010, on three different occasions, multiple basketball players habe been accused of rape. And it's not just scholarship guys. Brock Washimgton, a walk-on, was charged in 2018 of assault. All.the while, being under investigation for sexual assault.

    Then, well there's Travis Walton. .
    Recemtly a.former MSU trainer was charged with sexual assault.

    Then of course, MSU was/is under investigation by state lawmakers , Congress and the fvckin US Dept of Education, for alleged cover ups.

    And you wanna compare that^^^^, to what your buddy posted?

    Really? If so, good. Give me another 20 minutes. And I could.probably find another 10 or accusations.
     
  17. SpartyRBS

    SpartyRBS Well-Known Member
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    Brock Washington slapped a girl’s butt at a party. Unreal.

    You asked for examples and he gave you plenty. You should go to your home board with your woke self and lecture all the IU fans about your own indiscretions. MileHighSpartan owned you. Absolutely owned you. Go look at all his links. He cited them for you. What do you think about those accusations? They all guilty like you claim any and all MSU players and alumni to be?

    Espn used a set of devastated parents of a girl that committed suicide to frame a bunch of those MSU football players as gang rapists. No date, no location, no timeline of events, no accused players, no witnesses, no corroboration of any story. They had a journal. That’s some disgusting stuff to pump their numbers and promote a salacious news story. Absolutely gross.
     
  18. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Lol @ this entire post. He gave examples that were putrid...at best. Even then, none of them pale to what's gone on MSU. TWENTY -FOUR athletes, basketball and football,have been charged or accused of a sex crime since 2007. I guess that to is on ESPN? One of your athletic trainers was recently charged with sexual assault. Guess that to is ESPN's fault? Dude.....I get it. I.guess. It's your school. .Your team. But Jesus dude. Twenty-four athletes , in 12 years? Cover up issues. Presidents resigning over this shit. Your Title IX coordinator charged [4 counts] with lying.

    Let me guess......ESPN's fault??

    I dunno if it's funny, or fcking scary that you are actuallly.defending. tgis shit.
     
  19. SpartyRBS

    SpartyRBS Well-Known Member
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    It’s simple. You keep saying charged or accused and not found guilty. I gave you yet another example of the journal. It’s bogus. Hell, that Christine Blasey Ford had more “evidence” and even that was a clown show.

    You just use it as an avenue to rip MSU for sports reasons. It’s not personal. It has nothing to do with some SJW cause. You aren’t using it as a platform for a bigger picture. It’s sports. Your team vs my team. That’s why I called you and others out. You’re even using this athletic trainer guy now. Like wtf? MSU is the state’s largest employer. Guy was like threatening his gf. Perhaps he has problems? MSU suspended him. If anything that’s an example of something done right.

    You keep saying cover up. The state’s attorney general said the opposite after the investigation you brought up in an earlier post. The Dean of the med school was found guilty of negligence. Negligence =\= cover up.

    And this is the problem I have with the drive by media. ESPN goes and throws trash at MSU. They bring up everything and anything to push ratings. They claim cover up, they interview that lady from the counseling office but even she had to publicly state her statements were at times taken out of context. She thought she was being interviewed for a story about sexual assaults on college campuses and not just MSU. She made some lengthy Facebook post calling out ESPN. We had former attorneys that worked on the Walton case make public statements that ESPN misreported (lied). But the vast majority of people don’t care because it no longer matters to some. ESPN claimed the prosecutor contacted Izzo about Travis Walton and the guy made a public release claiming otherwise and that it would be a violation of state and federal law. At no point was Izzo involved. It’s just gross how things get conflated and taken way out of context and if you defend it? Well, you somehow support rape. What a joke. You even do it in this post. “It’s ****ing scary that you defend this shit”. All you’re trying to do is dunk on MSU and you don’t like being called out. I don’t care. At least be real.
     
  20. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    So all 24 football/Basketball players charges , were bogus?
    Investigation by state lawmakers, Congress and Dept. Of Education....Bogus?
    Coordinator of Title IX, lying , being charged with 4 counts of lying...Resigning...Bogus?

    Everything is bogus, right? Just poor, poor MSU. Somebody had to get picked on, sooooo....

    ESPN AND the Media chose MSU.

    Damn brother ..Im sorry. If there's anything I can do...


    DON'T ASK.

    Amazing how some of you continue to brush this shit off.
     
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  21. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    This seems to be your and or other MSU fans issue. It certainly isn't mine. It's your "go to defense ", when faced with facts. IT has nothing to do with "my team vs your team". It's about a culture that has been created by your school, via your basketball and FB programs. Magnifed by your administration [allegedly], covering it up. It has nothing to.do.with sports, period. I responded as to why some scoffed at Mateen being found not guilty; the scope of how MSU is viewed via the Nassar case, and the multiple issues involving the basketba and football teams. You are the one who has made it a "my team vs your team", thing. Not me.
     
  22. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    I usually don't take naps @ 6 but ffs last nigh was long. "he's in the back of the van!"
     
  23. jace4655555

    jace4655555 Well-Known Member
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    Honest question because I could be completely wrong here...but didn't Payne...or someone initially admit to raping someone?

    Once again, not trying to flame here...if I'm mistaken please let me know.
     
  24. VulvHa

    VulvHa Well-Known Member
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    Yes, and I believe it is on video
     
  25. kyjeff1

    kyjeff1 Well-Known Member
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    Ah, thee ole "my boy owned you, simply because I said so!" bullshit. Love it. It's not true, not even close, but I applaud you for the effort. Laughing
     
    65 kyjeff1, Aug 31, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  26. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I got a good laugh.
     
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  27. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Yep, it is. Bogus, though ..I mean haven't ya heard? According to Sparty and his other sidelicks, it's all bogus. Just big, bad ESPN out trying to get poor ole" Sparty.Laughing
     
  28. MileHighSpartan

    MileHighSpartan Well-Known Member
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    No, he did not admit to raping someone. Similar to this Mateen video, the Payne video was a clip. The full transcript, the other evidence, the woman's transcript, etc all led to the decision not to be charged, after being reviewed by multiple different prosecutors.

    No MSU fans are proud of all of these things that have gone on or supposedly had gone on. I wish Appling and Payne never got into their situation at all, but they were determined not to have committed a crime. The judicial system also determined that Cleaves (who hasn't played at MSU for 20 years) did not commit a crime.

    But with the Nassar stuff and everything else, I suppose MSU doesn't deserve the benefit of doubt in these situations. So they are fair game, even if found not guilty / charges dropped, or in cases from years ago with nothing to do with the current rosters.
     
  29. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    He corroborated the story that the girl said no and wanted to stop but Appling pressured her into going further.

    [​IMG]
     
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  30. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    @jace4655555
    @VulvHa
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    MileHigh read that transcript (supposedly) and still tried to say that the victim only said "no" to Appling not wearing a condom. You aren't going to get anywhere with him.


    Either he lied about reading that transcript because he'd rather just defend MSU players without reading it, or he read it and tried to pretend like the victim didn't say "stop" and that she "was done". Either way, trying to get him to have an honest conversation about this is highly unlikely.
     
    70 hailtoyourvictor, Aug 31, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
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  31. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    "In no way am I defending the players / MSU in the things that have been reported"

    Laughing


    [​IMG]
     
  32. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Oh, oh, oh! You're back to this? Make up your mind.

    2015: "Gibbons is a rapist".
    2018: (After me pointing out your hypocrisy in defending Appling because charges weren't pressed but calling Gibbons a rapist despite charges not being pressed) "I redact my statements on Gibbons".
    2019: "The cover-up of Brendan Gibbon's rape".



    Good lord, dude. Keep SOME sort of consistency on whether people who don't get charged with rape can still be guilty of sexual assault or not.

    Appling 100% DID NOT sexually assault the girl at all (despite a witness saying the girl said "no" and "stop") because charges weren't pressed. Brendan Gibbons is a rapist despite charges not being pressed.



    I can look at the stories and say that Appling and Gibbons both probably sexually assaulted their victims and should have been at least suspended for conduct unbecoming of a college athlete. In your feeble little mind it's "MSU innocent! Michigan guilty!".
     
    72 hailtoyourvictor, Aug 31, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  33. MileHighSpartan

    MileHighSpartan Well-Known Member
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    I'm not defending Nassar. I'm not defending anyone at MSU who knew of what was going on and did nothing. I'm glad they fired people as there were some toxic people within the administration. I'm not defending the football players, and I'm glad that they were kicked off the team.

    I'm also not defending that Mateen even put himself into that position, or that Appling / Payne put themselves into that position. But the criminal justice system determined they did not commit those crimes. Everything I posted in that comment about Appling / Payne was directly from the MLive (better than a random blog post, no?) article.

    And I don't really give af about Gibbons situation or any of the other shit that has gone on at UM / IU / PU, it was only one of multiple examples included to show Borden - who questioned if any other schools have had issues with sexual assault - that other schools do in fact have issues as well. I didn't just come out of nowhere and say "yea but these schools do it too!". I used the 3 schools who have posted the majority of times in this thread as examples, providing direct links of their own athletes, doctors, and professors in the news for sexual assault related incidents.

    You are obviously triggered by this thread, as you probably have more posts in it than anyone. Have a great holiday weekend.
     
  34. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    You literally wrote

    "The cover-up of football player Brendan Gibbons rape in 2009"


    Appling 100% DID NOT sexually assault the girl at all (despite a witness saying the girl said "no" and "stop") because charges weren't pressed. Brendan Gibbons is a rapist despite charges not being pressed.



    "MSU is innocent! Michigan is guilty!"



    We get it.
     
    IUfanBorden likes this.
  35. kyjeff1

    kyjeff1 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I don't get how anyone can think that was anything other than a rape. That girl was forced to have sex with Appling. You just can't defend that.

    These guys have to put themselves in her position or her father's position and not look at it as a fan.
     
  36. kyjeff1

    kyjeff1 Well-Known Member
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    So I guess in your eyes, this means the transgressions didn't happen then huh?

    No, you know what it actually means? It means the defense attorneys did a better job than the prosecutors did. The court system is a joke. Are OJ Simpson and Casey Anthony innocent? According to a couple of jury's they are, but we know they're guilty
     
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  37. SpartanJD

    SpartanJD Well-Known Member
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    So anytime a female sex crimes investigator and DA conclude no crime was committed they’re lying and/or ignorant?

    Interesting view.
     
  38. SpartanJD

    SpartanJD Well-Known Member
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    Anyways I’m posting in this thread again...because there’s a lot to the Cleaves story that will be coming out. He’s counter suing (likely for extortion) and there’s rumored to be a video of the fake victim saying on tape she went for a money grab.

    Part of the reason his acquittal was so fast. Just no evidence against him really.
     
  39. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    If that’s true then I hope he gets justice
     
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  40. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    Has to suck to spend so many hours building a brand and then to be falsely accused.
     

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