Kansas.....why ever could you be losing, I wonder.

Kevin Bryan

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Nice.

But I stay away from spreads for the most part. Too much bullsh** occurs when those conveniently and narrowly hit or miss.

So I stick to ML parlays and alt spreads.
ML on a team that is favored by 7 doesn't pay shit though. Build up those big money parlays. 😎
 

Farm-Cat

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Thanks adding something meaningful to the conversation instead of just insults. Must really suck to watch your team play out of their minds for a half of basketball only to watch the team you hate the most come back and win late.
No it sucks having Bruce as a coach and having zero home advantage because of Self. I shouldn't have to bring up the refs at all, unless you are a KU fan who is in total denial that Billy boy pays them handsomely.
 
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ExitFlagger

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No it sucks having Bruce as a coach and having zero home advantage because of Self. I shouldn't have to bring up the refs at all, unless you are a KU fan who is in total denial that Billy boy pays them handsomely.


I’ll bet you honestly believe this…🤣🤣
 

Turinturumbar

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No it sucks having Bruce as a coach and having zero home advantage because of Self. I shouldn't have to bring up the refs at all, unless you are a KU fan who is in total denial that Billy boy pays them handsomely.
There were really only two obviously bad calls and they both went against KU. The out of bounds that was off KSU, but they gave to you anyway, and that gifted you 3 points with a Pack 3. Then the two free throws anomaly where Ochai was a good 10 inches behind the three point line. There was the block/charge call that went against KSU earlier, but the refs get those calls wrong about half the time.

So is your complaint that KSU was called for more fouls than KU? That's a bogus argument as well. First, KSU fouls a lot. You play tight defense and good defense, but that comes with fouls. Nobody plays good defense without fouling. Especially when playing a quick team that drives. KSU has been called for more fouls than their opponent in every Big XII game but one. And that disparity is sizeable in a few of those games. Here's a bit of advice for you, since you obviously don't seem to understand basketball very well. When you drive the ball, you get to the free throw line. When you shoot jumpers you don't. In the first half, the foul calls were pretty even. This changed in the 2nd. Why? Because KU adjusted on defense and took the driving lanes away. Instead of trying to exploit and make adjustments of his own, Bruce just let his guys start putting up jumpers. I can't really fault the strategy....they had been hitting them all game long, even tough ones. It was obvious the players were dialed in from a shooting perspective. KU meanwhile was missing wide open jumpers. Despite Agbaji's 29 points, he really wasn't shooting well. KU gave up on shooting jumpers for the most part and started driving to the hoop the last 10 minutes.

What happens when one team shoots jumpers and the other team drives to the hoop? It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this out.
 
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Turinturumbar

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Pack > Agbaji
Bwahahahaha!

Now I know you're a troll. Pack is good, no doubt. But just because he channeled his inner Steph Curry for a game doesn't make him better than Agbaji. He's good, but he isn't as good as Agbaji. I don't think you'll find anybody willing to believe that.
 

Farm-Cat

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Bwahahahaha!

Now I know you're a troll. Pack is good, no doubt. But just because he channeled his inner Steph Curry for a game doesn't make him better than Agbaji. He's good, but he isn't as good as Agbaji. I don't think you'll find anybody willing to believe that.
Agbaji is surrounded by talent that is equal or better than what he is as well as superior coaching. It is insane for someone to score over 30 points in a Bruce Weber offense with no scoring in the post and pretty terrible wing play.
 

Farm-Cat

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There were really only two obviously bad calls and they both went against KU. The out of bounds that was off KSU, but they gave to you anyway, and that gifted you 3 points with a Pack 3. Then the two free throws anomaly where Ochai was a good 10 inches behind the three point line. There was the block/charge call that went against KSU earlier, but the refs get those calls wrong about half the time.

So is your complaint that KSU was called for more fouls than KU? That's a bogus argument as well. First, KSU fouls a lot. You play tight defense and good defense, but that comes with fouls. Nobody plays good defense without fouling. Especially when playing a quick team that drives. KSU has been called for more fouls than their opponent in every Big XII game but one. And that disparity is sizeable in a few of those games. Here's a bit of advice for you, since you obviously don't seem to understand basketball very well. When you drive the ball, you get to the free throw line. When you shoot jumpers you don't. In the first half, the foul calls were pretty even. This changed in the 2nd. Why? Because KU adjusted on defense and took the driving lanes away. Instead of trying to exploit and make adjustments of his own, Bruce just let his guys start putting up jumpers. I can't really fault the strategy....they had been hitting them all game long, even tough ones. It was obvious the players were dialed in from a shooting perspective. KU meanwhile was missing wide open jumpers. Despite Agbaji's 29 points, he really wasn't shooting well. KU gave up on shooting jumpers for the most part and started driving to the hoop the last 10 minutes.

What happens when one team shoots jumpers and the other team drives to the hoop? It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure this out.
Agbaji 3 pt play was called as a non-shooting foul (he already was coming down and the defender was tripped and landed underneath him), and it was a moving screen anyway.

My complaint is the fouls that are called against whoever KU plays are very timely. They halt any momentum the other team has. No other team has this advantage in the big 12. I understand basketball much more than you ever will, I have college experience which is more than you had playing JV hoops.

I already know how bad Bruce's offense is, I've been complaining for a decade. I know Self is better at adjustments.
 

ExitFlagger

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Agbaji 3 pt play was called as a non-shooting foul (he already was coming down and the defender was tripped and landed underneath him), and it was a moving screen anyway.

My complaint is the fouls that are called against whoever KU plays are very timely. They halt any momentum the other team has. No other team has this advantage in the big 12. I understand basketball much more than you ever will, I have college experience which is more than you had playing JV hoops.

I already know how bad Bruce's offense is, I've been complaining for a decade. I know Self is better at adjustments.

What you understand is homerism/hate. We get it. You'll never man up and admit that a rival team and coach consistently beat you because they're better. So, like every other Big 12 team, you create a narrative that Self pays the refs to give him timely calls that sway every close game in his favor. Great stuff.

Btw, for every "timely" call you can mention, I could mention a very untimely one. The difference is that KU/Bill overcomes these.
 

Farm-Cat

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What you understand is homerism/hate. We get it. You'll never man up and admit that a rival team and coach consistently beat you because they're better. So, like every other Big 12 team, you create a narrative that Self pays the refs to give him timely calls that sway every close game in his favor. Great stuff.

Btw, for every "timely" call you can mention, I could mention a very untimely one. The difference is that KU/Bill overcomes these.
Just becuase I never said they were better doesn't mean I don't think they are. What I have said said is that Kansas State deserved to win that game and the refs had other ideas. Did they make mistakes and lose their lead? Yes. Could they have kept their lead despite the refs? Yes. But the refs actively chipping away and halting any momentum is hard to win against.

READ THE THREAD: Farm Cat: "Agbaji is surrounded by talent that is equal or better than what he is as well as superior coaching. It is insane for someone to score over 30 points in a Bruce Weber offense with no scoring in the post and pretty terrible wing play"

Could you mention any calls from last nights Tech n KU game that were untimely for KU?
 

Turinturumbar

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Could you mention any calls from last nights Tech n KU game that were untimely for KU?
Sure. I remember seeing a couple. Of course Tech fans could say the opposite. It’s called a cognitive bias. I cheer for KU, so I’m going to notice the ones that go against KU. You cheer for KSU, so you’re going to notice the ones that go against KSU.

The difference is, I recognize that I have a cognitive bias. The simple truth is that some calls will go against you, some will benefit you. It tends to even out over the course of 40 minutes. As such, you have to try to play in a way which will maximize your opportunity to come out ahead with officiating. Bruce did not do this. KU attacked the basket, which is going to draw fouls and some of them might very well be bad calls. But you’re going to get calls when you drive to the basket. KSU shot jumpers and never forced the issue.

ISU fans complained for years that the officials were out to get them when Hoiberg was coach. They shot so many jumpers they never forced it into the paint much except when they had what’s his name down low who was always getting to the hoop. Now that they play a more traditional offense and attack the basket, they get more calls.
 

Farm-Cat

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Sure. I remember seeing a couple. Of course Tech fans could say the opposite. It’s called a cognitive bias. I cheer for KU, so I’m going to notice the ones that go against KU. You cheer for KSU, so you’re going to notice the ones that go against KSU.

The difference is, I recognize that I have a cognitive bias. The simple truth is that some calls will go against you, some will benefit you. It tends to even out over the course of 40 minutes. As such, you have to try to play in a way which will maximize your opportunity to come out ahead with officiating. Bruce did not do this. KU attacked the basket, which is going to draw fouls and some of them might very well be bad calls. But you’re going to get calls when you drive to the basket. KSU shot jumpers and never forced the issue.

ISU fans complained for years that the officials were out to get them when Hoiberg was coach. They shot so many jumpers they never forced it into the paint much except when they had what’s his name down low who was always getting to the hoop. Now that they play a more traditional offense and attack the basket, they get more calls.
I also know that i have bias. But what I am saying is that KU gets these calls against everyone at home and on the road, and it is not due to playstyle or attacking the basket. I have seen more weave and less post from Self in a long long time.

KSU couldn't get a rebound, the whole 2nd half and had bad shot selection at the end, and the refs are just icing on the cake.
 

ExitFlagger

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I also know that i have bias. But what I am saying is that KU gets these calls against everyone at home and on the road, and it is not due to playstyle or attacking the basket. I have seen more weave and less post from Self in a long long time.

KSU couldn't get a rebound, the whole 2nd half and had bad shot selection at the end, and the refs are just icing on the cake.

And yet you have nothing to back up what you admit is a biased opinion. See the problem?

We can actually point to numbers to support our position. KU is generally middle of the pack in the Big 12 in foul disparity. Despite often being the most athletic team or close to it.

As for untimely calls from last night, what first comes to mind is an out of bounds call that was clearly off Tech. And the goaltend call against McCormack wasn't exactly "timely." Due to your bias, of course, you'll argue that it was an obvious goaltend. But if it were so obvious, they wouldn't have rewatched it 50 times. It could have gone either way, but of course they won't overturn it unless it's clear and obvious. However, if Self had the refs in his pocket, he'd get that call.
 

ExitFlagger

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After rewatching highlights, another very untimely call was the out of bounds call on Agbaji's rebound near the end of regulation. He literally had the tip of his fingernail on the edge of the white line. How many refs would even be able to see that, much less call it? If it's not called, the game is probably over. Also a blocking foul shortly before that could have easily been called a charge. Pretending they get all the calls/non-calls is, of course, just sour grapes.
 

Farm-Cat

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And yet you have nothing to back up what you admit is a biased opinion. See the problem?

We can actually point to numbers to support our position. KU is generally middle of the pack in the Big 12 in foul disparity. Despite often being the most athletic team or close to it.

As for untimely calls from last night, what first comes to mind is an out of bounds call that was clearly off Tech. And the goaltend call against McCormack wasn't exactly "timely." Due to your bias, of course, you'll argue that it was an obvious goaltend. But if it were so obvious, they wouldn't have rewatched it 50 times. It could have gone either way, but of course they won't overturn it unless it's clear and obvious. However, if Self had the refs in his pocket, he'd get that call.
I have nothing to back up my opinion because I don't care enough to look up highlights and what not. If you and I were sitting next to each other watching the same game(s) I'm sure you would easily understand me.