I don’t know man. Roy put together a hell of a team, but we aren’t in the same stratosphere as ‘09. I definitely think this is one of Roy’s best coaching jobs.
Duke 2019 vs Michigan 92 and 93
- Thread starter KStateFootball82
- Start date
I am not sure how you could watch RJ Barrett all year long and question his toughness in comparison to the Michigan players. Kind of a crappy take considering you also threw in RJ in the mix with consistency.
So in a thread discussing how freshman classes stack up against each other, you bring up 2009 UNC, which was led by Tyler Hansborough (Sr.), Wayne Ellington (Jr.), Ty Lawson (Jr.), and Danny Green (Sr.)?
He's been an offensive disaster: 13.4 PER, .493 TS% (worse than Russell Westbrook this year, which is saying a lot), 6.4% total rebound %, 16.7%/10.7% TO/Ast percentage, 25.9% usage (star usage territory). At least he defends well.
Eh, I don't think it is laughable at all. The Fab Five, in their freshmen year, were very good.
(pts/rebounds/assists)
Jalen Rose averaged 18/4/4
Chris Webber averaged 16/10/2
Juwan Howard averaged 11/6/2
Jimmy King averaged 10/3/2
Ray Jackson averaged 5/3/2
To compare:
RJ Barret is averaging 23/8/4
Zion Williamson is averaging 22/9/2
Cam Reddish is averaging 14/4/2
Tre Jones is averaging 9/4/5
Joey Baker (the weak link) is averaging... well...
But if you look at the numbers...
RJ > Jalen
Zion > Chris
Cam = Juwan
Tre either > (depending on how much you value assists) or = Jimmy
Joey < Ray
But beyond that simple comparison, beyond discussion of the relative strengths of teams and the era and all of that... it's pretty clear that, judging by the numbers and because people like to compare and because this Duke class is maybe the most impactful freshman class in a long time... well, I think you can absolutely compare the two. No matter which side you have coming out ahead, I certainly don't think it is laughable or hyperbolic.
It's hard enough to compare across eras, let alone when you use raw per game numbers like the last 20 years of studying basketball never happened.
There are many Duke fans who know this and have seen it all year, but when we say something, other Duke fans do not like it. Bottom line, Cameron Reddish has been a bit of a disappointment in a Duke uniform and he won't have a chance to change that because he is going to the NBA next year.
Yup. And Kevin Pelton still has him top 5 based on his total body of work. Fans of teams that do not understand that talent does not equal a productive freshmen year will harp on all the "talent" that Duke has without seeing the bigger picture.
Good lord. Y'all folks need to read more carefully.
The in first post I made about this (before my words were twisted, forcing me to respond) I explicitly said "the other 2."
his only real redeeming quality. He does seem to like to hit clutch threes against FSU also.
He has hit some big shots. Hopefully he goes on a heater the next 3 weeks and realizes the potential he does have a ton of.
I wonder how hard it is for someone like Reddish to suddenly become the number 4 option. And I say number 4 because Zion and RJ are 1 & 2, but Jones runs the offense. Cam really has trouble working himself in and I’m not sure it’s all to blame. He’s the third most talented player on this team. That probably won’t happen to him in the nba.
^ goes to show that there's a lot more to building a successful team than just acquiring "talent," however defined. I wouldn't take him in the lottery, but some scouts/analysts are still bullish.
A lot of folks were expecting Reddish to be as good as Ingram as a freshman. If he had been anywhere near as good as Brandon, Duke walks to a title so its just unfortunate. He's been a better defender than Ingram though for the most part.
You think he won't have 1-2 players on his team that are better than him in the NBA? He had no issue working himself in from the UK game through the Auburn game, then he went full potato and hasn't been able to pull himself out except for a few short stretches.
I think he means he won’t be the third most talented, but more like the eighth more talented?
Y’all have been blinded by the insane talent wafting through Durham the last few years. Reddish will be a stud in the league. It’s hard to adjust on these OAD squads. Look how much better Tatum has been as a pro. You guys criticize Cam and RJ much like you did Tatum.
Oh... so you meant that he would be one of the two MOST talented on his NBA team? Uh... yeah, we’ll see about that. I don’t see anyone really criticizing RJ... most people love that he shouldered as much as he could when Zion was out. Hell, RJ just won USA Today NPOY. Guy has been awesome. Cam is averaging three TOs per game over the last five (helped by having none last game!) and is shooting 8-31 from three in that time. He’s been very inconsistent all year long... just look at his scoring... 22, 9, 27, 5... Listen, Cam has all the physical tools. But until he puts it together a bit, I’m going to hold off saying he will be a top two talent on an NBA team. Fingers crossed that he will find it for the post season run, because he is truly the key.
Eh, I don't think it is laughable at all. The Fab Five, in their freshmen year, were very good.
(pts/rebounds/assists)
Jalen Rose averaged 18/4/4
Chris Webber averaged 16/10/2
Juwan Howard averaged 11/6/2
Jimmy King averaged 10/3/2
Ray Jackson averaged 5/3/2
To compare:
RJ Barret is averaging 23/8/4
Zion Williamson is averaging 22/9/2
Cam Reddish is averaging 14/4/2
Tre Jones is averaging 9/4/5
Joey Baker (the weak link) is averaging... well...
But if you look at the numbers...
RJ > Jalen
Zion > Chris
Cam = Juwan
Tre either > (depending on how much you value assists) or = Jimmy
Joey < Ray
But beyond that simple comparison, beyond discussion of the relative strengths of teams and the era and all of that... it's pretty clear that, judging by the numbers and because people like to compare and because this Duke class is maybe the most impactful freshman class in a long time... well, I think you can absolutely compare the two. No matter which side you have coming out ahead, I certainly don't think it is laughable or hyperbolic.
RJ> Jalen...yes
Zion= Webber...Yes
Cam= Juwan...Hell no!!!
My point was simply that a comparison of the two groups isn’t a crazy thing to do.
Nah, Tatum took some time to adjust but was playing phenomenal by the end of the year. If Cam were to flip that switch right now I wouldn't complain.
But Tatum was the primary option/best player. Reddish will always trail Zion and RJ.
He has had 8 months to figure something out. I am not sure who else you blame for HIS play. He has and continues to get every opportunity as well. Coach K has not limited his chances or what he can and can't do on offense. He has as much freedom as Zion and RJ and not near the defensive attention from opponents as those two.
Reddish has been very good defensively and I think that is what has kept him in the line up so solidly. If he was bad defensively, i think he would have seen a decrease in playing time. The other defensive options after him aren't very good either. O'Connell couldn't defend me and Jack White can defend but he is worse both on offense and defense than Cameron IMO. So you go with Cameron. Last game it seemed like Cameron made a big effort just to be sound and play smart. There wasn't any out of control one handed drives that end up with a double clutch air ball thrown up 3 feet from the hoop.
This Duke fan certainly did not say anything remotely close about Tatum like I have critiqued Reddish. For good reason, Tatum was consistent and the talent was not just shown once every other week. I also do not criticize RJ at all. He is being asked to carry the load and he has been awesome, and consistent, all year long.
Tatum took time and was even hurt the first 5 games of the year. Despite all that he ended up playing himself into the conversation for #1 in the draft. I believe he broke the ACC tournament scoring record that year as well. Tatum got better as the year went on. I am not sure comparing Tatums' freshman year progress and Camerons' is one that someone should make. Considering it only reaffirms what you and I have been saying for a while now.
I just feel like a true Freshman as the 3rd/4th option who averages 14/4/2 is catching a little too much heat from fans. But thats me.
Eh... the thing is, he really pulls off some crazy bone-headed plays. His stats aren't bad, but they don't tell the whole story. His shooting percentage is only 35%, which is SO low... lower than any other real player on the team, lower than anyone on UNCs team, lower than anyone on UKs team... He is also second in turnovers, just below Barrett, who handles the ball a LOT more.
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