Does Duke beat KU if they beat Unc?

[RockChalk82]

I know several KU fans who wanted nothing to do with duke and were praising when we got Unc. Granted Unc ran us off the court in the first half, but the second half showed why in the end. No depth, Caleb Love flaws, Bacot injury, etc. but also due to the fact duke has 5 first rounders and felt K was destiny for his 6th title imo.

imo duke beats us. When Unc won I felt we were hanging #4.

 

[JimboBBN]

I said before the Final Four started that the KU/Nova winner would beat UNC, but they would lose to Duke. I'm not as confident Nova would have beaten Carolina anymore, but I do think Duke would have beaten both teams. I think Duke was a really bad matchup for Kansas. Would have felt the same way you did after watching Carolina win.

 

[WojoRising]

This Duke team could’ve beat anybody, obviously. That said, I wouldn’t have expected it.

 

[RockChalk82]

I said before the Final Four started that the KU/Nova winner would beat UNC, but they would lose to Duke. I'm not as confident Nova would have beaten Carolina anymore, but I do think Duke would have beaten both teams. I think Duke was a really bad matchup for Kansas. Would have felt the same way you did after watching Carolina win.

Nailed it

 

[toonces11]

I honestly thought we should beat UNC if we played our best. I think our best vs Duke's best would have been 50/50. I think our A game would have given us a chance to win against any team---our metrics back that up.

 

[UCLA_Nation]

I don't think it would've mattered who Kansas got in the championship game they were winning either way although Duke was the tougher matchup for them.

 

[KUhawks34]

I actually thought we matched up better with Duke. I think we win. We were the best team the last 2 months of the season.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Who knows, who cares. They had the most individual talent, but their defense was pretty poor.

 

[jhmossy]

Nope. Guard play for Duke was too weak and inconsistent.

 

[coryfly]

Maybe, but a healthy UNC could easily have won. I mean, a banged up UNC almost won. I'm not saying they WOULD have won but they could have for sure. Kansas could certainly also beat anyone in the country so they definitely could have beaten Duke.

 

[thebasketballreasons]

It’s hard to say. If KU played the first half like they did against UNC, it would surely have been a lost course against Duke, no way they could come back into the game. But apparently KU didn’t take UNC as seriously as they should have, they were shocked when UNC went on a run and didn’t anticipate such difficulty and intensity against an 8th seed that they expected to just walkover. Against Duke, KU would have been better prepared mentally to handle a possible Duke run and good chance they wouldn’t have gone down by 15pts at the half.

 

[RockChalk82]

Maybe, but a healthy UNC could easily have won. I mean, a banged up UNC almost won. I'm not saying they WOULD have won but they could have for sure. Kansas could certainly also beat anyone in the country so they definitely could have beaten Duke.

Some KU guys were nursing injury too a la McCormack

 

[coryfly]

Sure, I'm sure at this point in the season every player on every team is sore to some degree.

 

[ThePhog08]

The reason KU would have beaten Duke is the same reason Vtech and miami and unc beat them. They don't play d and have no guards.

 

[KENTUCKY_FLYER]

play the tourney ten times and you get probably seven different winners with two or three two time winners. If UK and St Peter play 10 times does anyone really believe St Pete wins more then one? Hell if we played 30 time they might not win more than one. But on a given night anyone can beat anyone. Dook might have beat KU then again they might have lost by 15. Just depends on star alignment that day.

 

[ExitFlagger]

play the tourney ten times and you get probably seven different winners with two or three two time winners. If UK and St Peter play 10 times does anyone really believe St Pete wins more then one? Hell if we played 30 time they might not win more than one. But on a given night anyone can beat anyone. Dook might have beat KU then again they might have lost by 15. Just depends on star alignment that day.

And yet many people judge programs and seasons solely by tourney outcomes. Funny how that works.

 

[KENTUCKY_FLYER]

And yet many people judge programs and seasons solely by tourney outcomes. Funny how that works.

Not fair to do that for A tourney. but once a pattern starts to form over several years, that's a different thing.

 

[imajericho]

play the tourney ten times and you get probably seven different winners with two or three two time winners. If UK and St Peter play 10 times does anyone really believe St Pete wins more then one? Hell if we played 30 time they might not win more than one. But on a given night anyone can beat anyone. Dook might have beat KU then again they might have lost by 15. Just depends on star alignment that day.

St Peters would have won all 10. Kentucky was a regular season team.

 

[bignish]

The reason KU would have beaten Duke is the same reason Vtech and miami and unc beat them. They don't play d and have no guards.

Those aren't bad losses though, all those teams are solid. You must not have watched us much to say that considering Roach carried us to wins vs Texas Tech and MSU. Keels was more inconsistent but played great vs UNC.

Roach just shit the bed on Saturday night and Caleb Love went nuclear. You were lucky to get the F version of Love on Monday night and I'm happy as hell you guys did.

I don't really consider Braun or Agbaji to be guards and would say with very high confidence that Remy Martin and DeJuan Harris are the worst pair of guards to win a national championship. They played well Monday night though to their credit.

 

[bignish]

Nope. Guard play for Duke was too weak and inconsistent.

This wasn't KU's strength either though. Remy Martin and DaJuan Harris must be the worst collection of guards to ever win a title. I'd take Roach and Keels over them all day,.

I'm not sure if we would have beaten KU but I thought we matched up pretty well with them.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Thankfully we'll never know.

 

[TechFan88]

Kansas could beat Duke. I mean we beat them while the clock was running.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Not fair to do that for A tourney. but once a pattern starts to form over several years, that's a different thing.

But there aren’t many consistent patterns to be found.

 

[ExitFlagger]

This wasn't KU's strength either though. Remy Martin and DaJuan Harris must be the worst collection of guards to ever win a title. I'd take Roach and Keels over them all day,.

I'm not sure if we would have beaten KU but I thought we matched up pretty well with them.

Actually, Martin was a huge strength and the key to the tourney run. You clearly didn’t watch him play much or follow the rest of his career. Going back to the conference tourney, he shot 50% and 40% from three. Every time they needed a big bucket, he delivered. He also played solid defense and made great passes.

He was a 3x All-Pac-12 player and averaged 19 ppg twice.

 

[duckboy33]

They would have been in a better position health wise but nobody knows for sure and it doesn’t really matter

 

[FaithPlusOne]

Thankfully we'll never know.

 

[bignish]

Actually, Martin was a huge strength and the key to the tourney run. You clearly didn’t watch him play much or follow the rest of his career. Going back to the conference tourney, he shot 50% and 40% from three. Every time they needed a big bucket, he delivered. He also played solid defense and made great passes.

He was a 3x All-Pac-12 player and averaged 19 ppg twice.

Martin played well in the tourney but his decision making has always been questionable and his defense has been mediocre at best this year. The All-PAC 12 moniker doesn't mean much when the league was watered down before the past few years.

Look at the guard combos who won a title in the last 10 years:

2021 Baylor: Jared Butler, Davion Mitchell and MaCio Teague
2019 UVA: Kyle Guy and Ty Jerome
2018 Nova: Jalen Brunson and Donte DiVincenzo
2017 UNC: Joel Berry and Theo Pinson
2016 Nova: Ryan Arcidiacano and Jalen Brunson
2015 Duke: Quinn Cook and Tyus Jones
2014 UConn: Shabazz Napier and Ryan Boatright
2013 Louisville: Russ Smith and Peyton Siva
2012 UK: Marquis Teague and Doron Lamb
2011 UConn: Kemba Walker and Shabazz Napier
2010 Duke: Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith

 

[ExitFlagger]

Martin played well in the tourney but his decision making has always been questionable and his defense has been mediocre at best this year. The All-PAC 12 moniker doesn't mean much when the league was watered down before the past few years.

Look at the guard combos who won a title in the last 10 years:

2021 Baylor: Jared Butler, Davion Mitchell and MaCio Teague
2019 UVA: Kyle Guy and Ty Jerome
2018 Nova: Jalen Brunson and Donte DiVincenzo
2017 UNC: Joel Berry and Theo Pinson
2016 Nova: Ryan Arcidiacano and Jalen Brunson
2015 Duke: Quinn Cook and Tyus Jones
2014 UConn: Shabazz Napier and Ryan Boatright
2013 Louisville: Russ Smith and Peyton Siva
2012 UK: Marquis Teague and Doron Lamb
2011 UConn: Kemba Walker and Shabazz Napier
2010 Duke: Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith

All that matters in terms of this discussion is how Martin played in this tourney. It doesn't matter what his tendencies were at Arizona St or how he played while injured. Self reined him in a bit and refined him.

Regardless, it's a silly conversation. I agree that Harris doesn't belong with names like those, but most people would include Agbaji as a guard. And Martin/Agbaji is a pretty damn good duo.

 

[tw3301]

I know several KU fans who wanted nothing to do with duke and were praising when we got Unc. Granted Unc ran us off the court in the first half, but the second half showed why in the end. No depth, Caleb Love flaws, Bacot injury, etc. but also due to the fact duke has 5 first rounders and felt K was destiny for his 6th title imo.

imo duke beats us. When Unc won I felt we were hanging #4.

Yes, please give us the trophy.

 

[ThePhog08]

Those aren't bad losses though, all those teams are solid. You must not have watched us much to say that considering Roach carried us to wins vs Texas Tech and MSU. Keels was more inconsistent but played great vs UNC.

Roach just shit the bed on Saturday night and Caleb Love went nuclear. You were lucky to get the F version of Love on Monday night and I'm happy as hell you guys did.

I don't really consider Braun or Agbaji to be guards and would say with very high confidence that Remy Martin and DeJuan Harris are the worst pair of guards to win a national championship. They played well Monday night though to their credit.

KU beat tech twice and hung 90+ on em one game. And smashed MSU in the champions classic without Jalen. Sooooo

 

[HawksJ]

I know several KU fans who wanted nothing to do with duke and were praising when we got Unc. Granted Unc ran us off the court in the first half, but the second half showed why in the end. No depth, Caleb Love flaws, Bacot injury, etc. but also due to the fact duke has 5 first rounders and felt K was destiny for his 6th title imo.

imo duke beats us. When Unc won I felt we were hanging #4.

I, for one, did not want to play Duke.

It was a terrible match-up.

Could KU have won? Of course, but it would have taken their A game and probably Duke putting in a B game.

 

[ThePhog08]

I, for one, did not want to play Duke.

It was a terrible match-up.

Could KU have won? Of course, but it would have taken their A game and probably Duke putting in a B game.

You don't watch much ball then.

 

[coryfly]

Martin played well in the tourney but his decision making has always been questionable and his defense has been mediocre at best this year. The All-PAC 12 moniker doesn't mean much when the league was watered down before the past few years.

Look at the guard combos who won a title in the last 10 years:

2021 Baylor: Jared Butler, Davion Mitchell and MaCio Teague
2019 UVA: Kyle Guy and Ty Jerome
2018 Nova: Jalen Brunson and Donte DiVincenzo
2017 UNC: Joel Berry and Theo Pinson
2016 Nova: Ryan Arcidiacano and Jalen Brunson
2015 Duke: Quinn Cook and Tyus Jones
2014 UConn: Shabazz Napier and Ryan Boatright
2013 Louisville: Russ Smith and Peyton Siva
2012 UK: Marquis Teague and Doron Lamb
2011 UConn: Kemba Walker and Shabazz Napier
2010 Duke: Jon Scheyer and Nolan Smith

That's 11.