Can we talk about the Pac 12 for a bit?

[GE Nole]

What in John Wooden's name is going on out there? They have one--ONE--team ranked in the top 50 of KenPom. They have two teams outside the top 200 and only one in the top 50. Shoot, the WCC has triple the amount of top 50 teams as the Pac 12!

How has it gotten so bad for the Conference of Champions?

 

[Global Havok]

From the average fan up to the adminstrators, none of them seem to give a crap about CBB. Apathy is the only way that can happen. Same reason the SEC was UK and everyone else for years.

 

[JimboBBN]

They're pretty awful. What's sad, is they should have a number of really good teams/programs year in and year out.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

they were good as recently as 2017 when UCLA had Lonzo, Arizona had Markkenan and Oregon had Brooks.

Real shame what has happened to that conference, total waste of Bill Walton's talents these days.

 

[buckymel]

And I thought B1G was bad last year.

 

[MileHighSpartan]

they were good as recently as 2017 when UCLA had Lonzo, Arizona had Markkenan and Oregon had Brooks.

Real shame what has happened to that conference, total waste of Bill Walton's talents these days.

CONFERENCE OF CHAMPIONS

Signed,

 

[Wall2Boogie]

The money machine is out of order. With any luck Washington and Arizona could possibly win 15 games next year. That conference is worse than the aac

 

[GE Nole]

Washington is the only team with any realistic hope of an at large bid this year. It’s crazy. Maybe Arizona State with their win over Kansas, but they have already dropped like 3 conference games to crap teams.

The thing is, the OOC was so lacking in quality wins, they can’t really get a quality in-conference win.

 

[iowahawkeyes69]

I thought Oregon was a good win for us and even before they lost Bol Bol it was looking average at best

 

[speedfrk]

Do we have to? They are turrible. I’m not sure how even Walton could defend them

 

[dukedevilz]

What in John Wooden's name is going on out there? They have one--ONE--team ranked in the top 50 of KenPom. They have two teams outside the top 200 and only one in the top 50. Shoot, the WCC has triple the amount of top 50 teams as the Pac 12!

How has it gotten so bad for the Conference of Champions?

WCC is 10-7 against the Pac-12. Honestly, if Gonzaga goes 16-0 this year, I would be genuinely impressed. The WCC actually has quite a few decent teams to be cautious about, unlike most years.

Pac-12 straight up sucks this year. I've been very disappointed in the body of work. Washington won't get a high seed, even if they go something like 17-1 in league play. But I could potentially see them winning 2-3 games in the tournament. Jaylen Nowell is playing at an All-American level and Thybulle is arguably the best defender in all of college basketball. Arizona State has some good talent, but they always seem to drop a couple of head-scratchers. I think ASU will stay in the bubble until Selection Sunday. I don't think anyone else makes it personally, unless of course they win the conference tournament.

Good news is the Pac-12 should be better next year (think we said the same thing this offseason, though). Lots of young teams in the league, and there are quite a few 5-star prospects joining the Pac-12 in 2020. Here are the 5-star kids:

#5 Isaiah Stewart- Washington
#12 Josh Green- Arizona
#14 Nico Mannion- Arizona
#17 Isaiah Mobley- USC
#28 Onyeka Okongwu- USC
#29 CJ Walker- Oregon
#30 Zeke Nnaji- Arizona

Cole Anthony (#4, Oregon) and Jaden McDaniels (#6, Washignton) could also end up in the Pac-12.

 

[GE Nole]

WCC is 10-7 against the Pac-12. Honestly, if Gonzaga goes 16-0 this year, I would be genuinely impressed. The WCC actually has quite a few decent teams to be cautious about, unlike most years.

Pac-12 straight up sucks this year. I've been very disappointed in the body of work. Washington won't get a high seed, even if they go something like 17-1 in league play. But I could potentially see them winning 2-3 games in the tournament. Jaylen Nowell is playing at an All-American level and Thybulle is arguably the best defender in all of college basketball. Arizona State has some good talent, but they always seem to drop a couple of head-scratchers. I think ASU will stay in the bubble until Selection Sunday. I don't think anyone else makes it personally, unless of course they win the conference tournament.

Good news is the Pac-12 should be better next year (think we said the same thing this offseason, though). Lots of young teams in the league, and there are quite a few 5-star prospects joining the Pac-12 in 2020. Here are the 5-star kids:

#5 Isaiah Stewart- Washington
#12 Josh Green- Arizona
#14 Nico Mannion- Arizona
#17 Isaiah Mobley- USC
#28 Onyeka Okongwu- USC
#29 CJ Walker- Oregon
#30 Zeke Nnaji- Arizona

Cole Anthony (#4, Oregon) and Jaden McDaniels (#6, Washignton) could also end up in the Pac-12.

I agree about Washington and Arizona State being the only two with an at-large chance.

As for next year, Arizona should certainly be better. USC...I don't know. It's not like Enfield hasn't had boatloads of talent out in LaLa Land. He just isn't winning with it. Washington will be solid as usual.

 

[dukedevilz]

I agree about Washington and Arizona State being the only two with an at-large chance.

As for next year, Arizona should certainly be better. USC...I don't know. It's not like Enfield hasn't had boatloads of talent out in LaLa Land. He just isn't winning with it. Washington will be solid as usual.

Hope the Pac-12 is better next year. I haven't watched more than 10 minutes or so of a single Pac-12 game this year. Trying to be somewhat selective with all the games I record, and watching NIT teams just doesn't cut it. I've watched Buffalo play 3 games in conference play, just for comparison.

Here's what I project early, early on for 2020 (without knowing who's going pro):

Arizona: 2 or 3 seed
Arizona State: 4-8 seed (closer to a 4 if Lu Dort returns)
Washington: 5-8 seed
Oregon: 7-9 seed

Bubble Teams:
USC
UCLA

NITish, with the ceiling of a Bubble Team:
Utah
Oregon State

 

[CDNCBBFan]

Trying to be somewhat selective with all the games I record, and watching NIT teams just doesn't cut it.

Funny you mention that. There are so many games on this time of year that I've basically defined a set of criteria that I use to determine which games to record/watch. Anything that doesn't meet the criteria gets cut unless there's some extremely good reason I want to see it. Without the criteria in place I'd never be able to keep up with the games I record. Anyway, I'll stop nerding out and get back to basketball.

The Pac-12 is very hard to watch this year. As you guys have said, Washington is playing well, but outside of that.....wow. The WCC with Gonzaga, San Francisco and Saint Mary's is more interesting. I think the MWC with Nevada, Utah State and Fresno State also has an argument. During one of the Pac-12 broadcasts they were talking about how good the conference vs. conference competitions were, but that it was a shame that the P12 didn't have one. Walton said they could set one up that matched the P12 versus the best of the MWC and WCC. It will never happen, but it would have been highly enjoyable this year to watch the P12 get smacked in that conference challenge.

 

[dukedevilz]

Funny you mention that. There are so many games on this time of year that I've basically defined a set of criteria that I use to determine which games to record/watch. Anything that doesn't meet the criteria gets cut unless there's some extremely good reason I want to see it. Without the criteria in place I'd never be able to keep up with the games I record. Anyway, I'll stop nerding out and get back to basketball.

The Pac-12 is very hard to watch this year. As you guys have said, Washington is playing well, but outside of that.....wow. The WCC with Gonzaga, San Francisco and Saint Mary's is more interesting. I think the MWC with Nevada, Utah State and Fresno State also has an argument. During one of the Pac-12 broadcasts they were talking about how good the conference vs. conference competitions were, but that it was a shame that the P12 didn't have one. Walton said they could set one up that matched the P12 versus the best of the MWC and WCC. It will never happen, but it would have been highly enjoyable this year to watch the P12 get smacked in that conference challenge.

Agreed. I think I might watch some combination of a game involving Washington, Arizona State, and Arizona. That's about it

WCC is actually pretty decent this year. 3 teams in the top 50. A few more teams in the top 100. Frankie Ferrari and Jordan Ford are two of the more dynamic guards in the West. Certainly good enough to make one of the All Pac-12 teams. I really like to watch Utah State's Neemias Queta (and Sam Merrill). He's not putting up crazy numbers right now, but he's fun to watch and I think he'll be a superstar by next year... USF and Saint Mary's both need to beat Gonzaga at least once, same for Utah State and Fresno State needing to beat Nevada. Otherwise, it's a likely NIT finish. I did watch the USF-Gonzaga game a few weeks ago, and that was very, very competitive - and fun to watch. Seemed like USF even had a small lead with 2 or 3 minutes left.

 

[CDNCBBFan]

Agreed. I think I might watch some combination of a game involving Washington, Arizona State, and Arizona. That's about it

WCC is actually pretty decent this year. 3 teams in the top 50. A few more teams in the top 100. Frankie Ferrari and Jordan Ford are two of the more dynamic guards in the West. Certainly good enough to make one of the All Pac-12 teams. I really like to watch Utah State's Neemias Queta (and Sam Merrill). He's not putting up crazy numbers right now, but he's fun to watch and I think he'll be a superstar by next year... USF and Saint Mary's both need to beat Gonzaga at least once, same for Utah State and Fresno State needing to beat Nevada. Otherwise, it's a likely NIT finish. I did watch the USF-Gonzaga game a few weeks ago, and that was very, very competitive - and fun to watch. Seemed like USF even had a small lead with 2 or 3 minutes left.

Agreed, that was a really enjoyable game and the final score did not do justice to how close a game it was throughout. Ferrari was fantastic (and what a great name!). That was the first time I'd seen SF this year, hoping to see them a couple more times.

I think Nevada is a bit overrated. Utah State gets them at home on March 2nd. That's a great opportunity. They're 41st in NET, so a win there would be huge.

San Francisco also has a chance, especially if, as you said, they can get a win against Gonzaga. I like Saint Mary's, but they have 9 losses already. Short of running the table for the rest of the regular season I'm not sure about an at-large bid. I haven't fact checked this, so I could be off, but I think it's extremely rare (or maybe never happened) that a double digit loss team from the WCC gets an at-large.

 

[dukedevilz]

Agreed, that was a really enjoyable game and the final score did not do justice to how close a game it was throughout. Ferrari was fantastic (and what a great name!). That was the first time I'd seen SF this year, hoping to see them a couple more times.

I think Nevada is a bit overrated. Utah State gets them at home on March 2nd. That's a great opportunity. They're 41st in NET, so a win there would be huge.

San Francisco also has a chance, especially if, as you said, they can get a win against Gonzaga. I like Saint Mary's, but they have 9 losses already. Short of running the table for the rest of the regular season I'm not sure about an at-large bid. I haven't fact checked this, so I could be off, but I think it's extremely rare (or maybe never happened) that a double digit loss team from the WCC gets an at-large.

I agree with Nevada being slightly overrated. They haven't overwhelmed me, by any means. They're certainly capable of a Final Four Run, but I'm more expecting them to lose in the Round of 32 or Sweet 16.

Saint Mary's certainly has a long ways to go. But they're #55 in the Net Rankings and #40 in KenPom. A WCC double digit loss team receiving an at-large wouldn't be unprecedented (but I'll concede that it's rare). BYU was 23-11 in 2014 and ended up as 10 seed (solid non-conference schedule).

 

[CDNCBBFan]

Interesting, good call on BYU. I had forgotten about that. Anyway, things will be slightly more clear after the SF-SM matchup on Saturday. Should be a good one.

 

[Airizona]

What a terrible year in cbb for the Pac... worst in like 20+ years

I feel confident the Pac will bounce back next year, top 2 recruiting classes for AZ and USC, and Washington could bring in more top talent.

The UCLA hire is a big one but probably will be a few years until they are legit again.

There are a few other teams that could do well next year, I assume ASU will be gods in OOC and then shit the bed during conference play per usual.

 

[VAWildcat15]

Do we have to? They are turrible. I’m not sure how even Walton could defend them

I'm sure it helps him being super high all the time.

 

[Tigerocker]

Oregon had a really good recruiting class. Even with their star out shouldn't they be better than they are ?

 

[GE Nole]

What a terrible year in cbb for the Pac... worst in like 20+ years

I feel confident the Pac will bounce back next year, top 2 recruiting classes for AZ and USC, and Washington could bring in more top talent.

The UCLA hire is a big one but probably will be a few years until they are legit again.

There are a few other teams that could do well next year, I assume ASU will be gods in OOC and then shit the bed during conference play per usual.

USC might have a top 2 recruiting class now, but it will likely be more like top 5-7 after all guys are signed, no? In either case, Enfield ain't exactly getting the most out his talent...

 

[dukedevilz]

Interesting, good call on BYU. I had forgotten about that. Anyway, things will be slightly more clear after the SF-SM matchup on Saturday. Should be a good one.

I assume you're an LMU fan. Just curious, do you have experience attending the WCC Tournament? I'm an East Coast person, but I'll be out in Vegas the same week as the WCC Tourney (work conference). Do you have a rough idea how much I might need for an individual ticket? I'm hoping to attend the semifinals and finals.

 

[GE Nole]

I assume you're an LMU fan. Just curious, do you have experience attending the WCC Tournament? I'm an East Coast person, but I'll be out in Vegas the same week as the WCC Tourney (work conference). Do you have a rough idea how much I might need for an individual ticket? I'm hoping to attend the semifinals and finals.

Dang, that sounds fun.

 

[dukedevilz]

Dang, that sounds fun.

I'm looking forward to it! Vegas + WCC Hoops. I'll take that business trip anytime.

 

[duckboy33]

Oregon has been devastated with injuries. It’s been an interesting year though, we find new ways to lose games every week

 

[CDNCBBFan]

I assume you're an LMU fan. Just curious, do you have experience attending the WCC Tournament? I'm an East Coast person, but I'll be out in Vegas the same week as the WCC Tourney (work conference). Do you have a rough idea how much I might need for an individual ticket? I'm hoping to attend the semifinals and finals.

Sorry, I have no idea. You're not the first person that's made that assumption so perhaps I need to change my avatar. I'm Canadian - live near Toronto. I'm just a huge college basketball fan and that's pretty rare in Canada, so I come here to discuss. Syracuse is the closest team to me in proximity so I've always followed them casually, but am by no means a die-hard. I'm more just a basketball fan, so I end up following teams/programs because I like the players, coach, or style of play. I really loved the LM team from that era and so I chose that as my avatar when I joined here.

 

[dukedevilz]

Sorry, I have no idea. You're not the first person that's made that assumption so perhaps I need to change my avatar. I'm Canadian - live near Toronto. I'm just a huge college basketball fan and that's pretty rare in Canada, so I come here to discuss. Syracuse is the closest team to me in proximity so I've always followed them casually, but am by no means a die-hard. I'm more just a basketball fan, so I end up following teams/programs because I like the players, coach, or style of play. I really loved the LM team from that era and so I chose that as my avatar when I joined here.

Gotcha! I'm a diehard Duke fan, but I also enjoy watching as much college basketball as possible. I record anywhere from 25-35 games a week. Aside from the power conferences, I like to dabble a little bit in the WCC, MWC, and the MAC (Buffalo games only). I think Buffalo might actually be my favorite non-Duke team this year. I honestly think they have a higher ceiling than Nevada; they'll probably have a lower seed than Nevada, though, so that part won't help.

 

[CDNCBBFan]

Gotcha! I'm a diehard Duke fan, but I also enjoy watching as much college basketball as possible. I record anywhere from 25-35 games a week. Aside from the power conferences, I like to dabble a little bit in the WCC, MWC, and the MAC (Buffalo games only). I think Buffalo might actually be my favorite non-Duke team this year. I honestly think they have a higher ceiling than Nevada; they'll probably have a lower seed than Nevada, though, so that part won't help.

I'm the same although my recorded number is probably closer to 15-20 per week. Just haven't been able to find time for more.

Not sure if you have any insight into this because you said you only really watch Buffalo games in the MAC. But I watched an early MAC conference game - Toledo vs. Ball State because at the time they were both fairly high in KenPom (I think Toledo was around 60 and Ball State was around 75-80). I thought it would be an interesting game since they'd be the two main challengers to Buffalo. Ball State mopped the floor with them and I was really impressed with Persons. After watching I thought they'd be in the mix with Buffalo all year, but they have been terrible in conference since that game. I haven't had a chance to watch them again so I'm not sure what happened.

 

[Airizona]

USC might have a top 2 recruiting class now, but it will likely be more like top 5-7 after all guys are signed, no? In either case, Enfield ain't exactly getting the most out his talent...

Not sure where it will end up, but the point is they are bringing in talent. Not sure if Enfield will capitalize but the talent will be there

 

[dukedevilz]

I'm the same although my recorded number is probably closer to 15-20 per week. Just haven't been able to find time for more.

Not sure if you have any insight into this because you said you only really watch Buffalo games in the MAC. But I watched an early MAC conference game - Toledo vs. Ball State because at the time they were both fairly high in KenPom (I think Toledo was around 60 and Ball State was around 75-80). I thought it would be an interesting game since they'd be the two main challengers to Buffalo. Ball State mopped the floor with them and I was really impressed with Persons. After watching I thought they'd be in the mix with Buffalo all year, but they have been terrible in conference since that game. I haven't had a chance to watch them again so I'm not sure what happened.

I actually saw the tail-end of that Ball State-Toledo game. Even more impressive is that they did that on the road. They have injuries, but those were to a couple of bench guys - and they occurred in the non-conference slate. Their center, Trey Moses, got hurt in the Buffalo game. Not sure how serious that is, as the game was just played on Tuesday. But their skid is really perplexing. They've taken a complete nose-dive. I saw that in the last 6 games they have something like a 1:2 assist to turnover ratio, which is absolutely horrendous... Buffalo plays on the road against Bowling Green on Saturday, which might be a good game. BGSU is 6-1 in conference play.

 

[GE Nole]

Not sure where it will end up, but the point is they are bringing in talent. Not sure if Enfield will capitalize but the talent will be there

For sure. Having talent is always better than not having talent.

I was just commenting on how much Enfield has underachieved. I feel like he'd be coaching for his job this year, or certainly next year, if he was at a lot of other major programs.

 

[duckboy33]

For sure. Having talent is always better than not having talent.

I was just commenting on how much Enfield has underachieved. I feel like he'd be coaching for his job this year, or certainly next year, if he was at a lot of other major programs.

Andy can recruit but I don’t think he’s a great coach. I’d be looking for someone else if I were at SC

 

[IrktogBuff]

Pac 12 is clueless. I was looking at the schedule and Cal vs Stanford is scheduled two and a half hours before the Super Bowl. Cal fans might have a interest in the game with a California team with a starting QB who played at Cal. It is almost as if the conference does not want people to watch or go to the games.

 

[dukedevilz]

ESPN isn't televising the Gonzaga-San Francisco game, but they are televising Saint Mary's/Pacific and BYU/Portland? How does that happen????? Those are the two best teams in the conference.

Looks like the Washington/Arizona game might actually be the most intriguing matchup on tonight. Congrats Pac-12.