Block/Charge Call
- Thread starter brooky03
- Start date
Yeah, thats terrible. It was a basketball move. The rule has way to much room for interpretation. Need to dump it
I had more of an issue with an and-1 taken away earlier in the game when the defender decided to plant himself in the middle of Mintz’s step. That last one was really close to that, too.
95% of charge/blocks are 50/50----Some are easy,that are missed....Altogether, it CAN be a very tough call. IMO, toughest JUDGEMENT call in all of sports.
I dont mean this as a smart ass----but I think some get upset simply due to not understanding what LGP(legal guarding position) is, and what you can do(once you establish that). People see a guy moving, and immediately go---"He's moving". You can move.
Now establishing and maintaining can be tricky, and tough as hell to officiate----especially at the speed these guys play at. I mean that play happened in a blink----and in that time, official has to determine IF defense established AND maintained a LGP. Its a hell of a lot harder to do than most think. I mean it looks easy when ESPN shows it slow motion....But its anything but that..
Now establishing and maintaining can be tricky, and tough as hell to officiate----especially at the speed these guys play at. I mean that play happened in a blink----and in that time, official has to determine IF defense established AND maintained a LGP. Its a hell of a lot harder to do than most think. I mean it looks easy when ESPN shows it slow motion....But its anything but that..
I don't like how they take the game situation or an injury into account when make a flagrant call. It should be the same regardless of whether the game is out of hand or if someone got hurt.
The elbow to rj shouldn't have been a flagrant. Nor should have leakys foul on Trevion been a flagrant 2. Nor manek's elbow in the Baylor game been a flagrant 2.
This is simply refereeing based not on the play directly in front of you.
The elbow to rj shouldn't have been a flagrant. Nor should have leakys foul on Trevion been a flagrant 2. Nor manek's elbow in the Baylor game been a flagrant 2.
This is simply refereeing based not on the play directly in front of you.
That’s why it would have been nice if the same ref that made the first charge call called a block on this one. Give and take.
I don’t like when players, typically in the post, are backing up and take contact and then get called for a block. Those should be charges or no calls. But when a defender is backing up and then decides to plant his feet and the ballhandler hits him, I’d like that to be a block. The first charge call against Mintz, that made me mad, was that kind of scenario. Going full speed, the defender just stopped one step away from him which caused the contact. Mintz couldn’t have avoided it.
The rule is piss poorly written----and in the same token, at times, piss poorly interpreted. To me NO play that involves a NATURAL basketball move, etc..., should ever be a F1/2----Ever. The drive there at the end----just no. I don't give a **** what the rule says----that is absolutely no fukin way there was any intent on that play; It was a dude trying to make a play. That's it. Call the charge---move on.
For me, an F1/F2 needs to be an INTENTIONAL act. Not an involuntary one.
Rule absolutely needs changed.
I mean, it just doesn't work that way----and officials, at least ones I work with, or have, just aren't built that way. I mean brother we don't have time to go---"hey, they got the last call, so.................".
I mean if you miss a call, last thing you do is miss another one, just to make up for it. You simply have to eat it. And look, some of these calls are so fukin bang/bang, man...I mean, they just are.
I didn't like most of the charges called tonight. Didn't like the flops early that gave Love two fouls and thought the one that Davis drew on the fast break was terrible.
I thought the Flagrant was basically the same play as Leaky's from the State game. So I guess we were lucky there wasn't an ejection. IMO it was nothing but a regular foul.
I'm biased though for this game as I think Brian O'Connell is too old to keep up with the speed of the game. He is the worst official in basketball IMO. I've never seen a game involving him where he was close to competent (not in a biased way, just not good).
I thought this crew struggled overall though. When Bacot was pushed OOB and simply said that to the ref (in a pretty lowkey way) the ref looked at him and smirked. Why not just way, 'That's not what I saw' or something like that. Inside with Edwards and Bacot was hard to officiate though.
Wasn't Ayers the main guy though? I thought he was pretty spot on all night.
I thought the Flagrant was basically the same play as Leaky's from the State game. So I guess we were lucky there wasn't an ejection. IMO it was nothing but a regular foul.
I'm biased though for this game as I think Brian O'Connell is too old to keep up with the speed of the game. He is the worst official in basketball IMO. I've never seen a game involving him where he was close to competent (not in a biased way, just not good).
I thought this crew struggled overall though. When Bacot was pushed OOB and simply said that to the ref (in a pretty lowkey way) the ref looked at him and smirked. Why not just way, 'That's not what I saw' or something like that. Inside with Edwards and Bacot was hard to officiate though.
Wasn't Ayers the main guy though? I thought he was pretty spot on all night.
1. Agree on the post play. If a defender has his feet set,on his spot, and the offense displaces him, with NON -incidental contact---Agree----a charge. ANd believe it or not, I have called that multiple times this year. Its not a very popular call. But I ain't running for office, so I dont give a ****..
2. Defender backing up, then stops,ball handler hits him----Man, that's a charge, brother. If a defender has established a LGP, he can move backwards, side to side, as long as he maintains a LGP. Sorry man, but avoiding contact there becomes the ballhandlers responsibility...I mean if the defense can stop on a dime----so can the offense.
I’m a stats guy so I know stats don’t work this way, but I’m of the opinion that ref was wrong on both calls. Doing fan math, two 50/50 calls should mean one charge and one block.
Didn't see most of the game---Lst few minutes. So I cannot comment on the entirety of the game, and howe it was officiated.
--Call that Davis drew at the end(F1) was the right call.
--O"Connell is not a fvorite of many. I agree, game seems to fast for him.
--I'll give the benefit of the doubt with the officials on reaacting to what players say...Reason being as fans that conversation is only ONE of many(during a game). Maybe player was 'cool' this time, maybe he wasn't the 3 times before? Who knows. But as a former college official, I can assure you the conbersations/questions aren't always so nice.
I'm guessing you watch a lot of ball (what gave it away), Do you watch certain refs and just label them as shit refs.
IYO, who's the worst refs...kind of a loaded question, but who really stands out amongst the one who gets constant games?
I know 85% of these guys, through working at their camps, attending clinics, zoom meetings, and in some cases, working with them. Difference for me is I know some of these guys on a personal basis, some obviously better than others, and it impacts my take on how they call, oe how they react to a player/coach.
I son't think any are shit----its really hard to get to this level. As bad as fans may think these guys are, in reality, they're not. BUT YES, I do think some are worse than others. I also think some have become lazy, content, and in some instances feel they are above making mistakes. Those are the type of guys I tried not working with, or listening to.
So in short, yeah there are certain officials I just don't like....
Scirotto IMO is one of the most arrogant dudes out there. Never liked the guy. I think his whistle is quick, that he doesn't allow plays to develop. He calls what he THNKS happened, instead of what actually DID happen. And look all officials are guilty of this. But this seems to happen a lot with him.
O'connell who worked tonights game(UNC). He's slow. His positioning is bad a lot,and that leads to "guess calls". He also not very approachable. 76% of the time if he gets someting right, its on accident.
Kelly Pfiefer---Big 10 guy. I used to really like the dude. But it jut seems he makes every easy call,a 50/50 call,and his game management seems to lack. Not very consistent IMO.
There are others. But hey, who am I to judge? I;ve been out of circle for quite some time.
When I worked it was mainly D2, and non-P5 conferences. I did work some OOC, P5 games, but vs Peacock States of the world.
While trying to advance I found most B10, ACC, SEC guys to be really helpful. Especially Mike Eades. A guy who always tried to help me as much as possible. He was Head of Officials for The River States(NAIA), and gave me an opportunity to get nack in the mix....Even got me a "tryout" for a couple of mid-major's.
On the flip, there were dudes who just weren't pleasant to bearound---and you could tell they felt they were better than you-----I just stayed away from those dudes.
Just curious but are there many refs that only ref and don't have side jobs? Is that where they get their ego from?
What gives a ref an ego?
I know a handful who only officiated . But when you get 70 games a year, @ $2000 a pop, or more---maybe a little less, why would you another "job"? But most have regular jobs.
We all have egos----only thing is, your ego isn't displayed on ESPN... 😁
Weird, but a bit misleading. Vandy had 10 guys play 10 minutes or more. No starter played more than 26 minutes.
@IUfanBorden Why is it that games called loose in the first half are almost always called tight in the second half and vice versa?
I’ve watched enough ball to know this isn’t just perception, I’m 100% confident it’s reality. Is it that the players adjust to how the game is being called and overcorrect? Or do officials change their mindset at halftime?
I’ve watched enough ball to know this isn’t just perception, I’m 100% confident it’s reality. Is it that the players adjust to how the game is being called and overcorrect? Or do officials change their mindset at halftime?
As for officials having egos-----Meh. No more bigger ego's than the guys on sidelines making millions of dollars.
Joey Crawford is the exception that proves the rule. I’d spit in that guy’s food. Dude thought the fans showed up to see him.
It is odd that there is a such thing as "make-up calls" and balancing out calls on teams. We've all watched it happen many time.s
Just as refs have pregame get-togethers on how a player plays and exchanges notes, they have to get together at halftime or in huddles and talk about balancing calls out.
I'd say a bit of both....Also, how the game is being played can change, thus causing the officials to adjust. Maybe Team X decides to piclk up tempo....maybe trapa little more than they did, etc, etc..
Good crews don't adapt, they dictate. Set a pace. You want a good flow, and sometimes the 1st half is like a boxing match---kind of feeling each other out. Second half is about adjustments on both sides.
A loose first half, followed by a tight second half could be due to some chippy play. Officials decide to get control early. A tight first half, with a loose second half is usualy b/c coaches/teams adjust to the whistle, OR....officials adjust to the play.
For those wanting a 100%consistently called basketball game---it will just never happen. Its like 80/ 100 putches JUUUUUUUST off the corner-----they all look like strikes, but they are not. SOmetimes our eyes fool us.
I think RJs charge call was right and both of loves charges were correct. Rj was backpeddling. The defender went side to side on Caleb's.
Not on board with make-up calls. It's just another call that happens to follow a bad call,so to speak. Just b/c I **** up on one end, doesn'tmean I **** up on the other, on purpose, just to make a coach happy.
Pure coincidence...
Never talk about balancing calls out. Not one time in 20+ years.
Halftime we will discuss calls----but nothing about Team A has 9 fouls and Team B only 2, so lets try an even it up...
Just no.
NBA officials for you....And look there are college guys like that---NO DOUBT. But Crawford, among other NBA officials----man,those guys. Wow.
Crawford a nice guy it seems---But as arrogant asany person I have ever met.
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