Basketball shows

[TheDude1]

Hey all,

So, two shows lately.

First, has anyone watched "Basketball: A Love Story" yet? It looks fantastic. I'd like to get the wife to watch it... she generally isn't a sports person, but she loves a well-done show... she adored the Bird/Magic ESPN show, and the Laettner one. I really want to check it out. Anyone watch it?

Second, anyone seen "Shut up and Dribble" on showtime? The wife and I watched it. Three part series about how basketball and race intersect. Follows the earliest guys, the ABA/NBA merger, the Brawl, and up to modern day... really well done, well written, excellent editing, and a fascinating look at how being an African American athlete, especially a popular one, can be such a multi-faceted "role" in American society. Now, it is DEFINITELY "political/social" in nature, so if you are easily riled up by stuff like that, you should skip it... but I'd say any fan of basketball would enjoy the shit out of it. Some great history, some great interviews, and some truly fascinating reflection by guys who we often just think of as one dimensional characters. BTW, connected to the "GOAT" conversation, it does have a FASCINATING bit about Jordan, and about how insanely careful he has always been in terms of avoiding any sort of public comment or controversy.

 

[toonces11]

Ive seen parts of both. Some of it is good, some of it sucks. The parts where they talk about the game and the work that goes into it is def fascinating. I fall into the category where I like to watch sports for the sport. Occasionally its fun to hear what these guys do in their down time---but I don't have any desire to watch athletes talk politics. More and more it seems like it invades every conversation. Im burnt out...regardless of affiliation.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

“I’m leaving once the season starts.” - OP


Still here?

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

There is already a Lebron thread.

 

[TheDude1]

Hail.

I get that you are a crazy stalker. I get that you are obsessed with me. I get it. It's okay; sometimes when someone has nothing going on in their own life, they fixate on other stuff. It's REALLY weird... enough people say "Hey, did you know Hail is responding to you?" even though you know I have you on ignore... but fine, I get it.

But as was pointed out ad nauseum to you (I CAN see what other people write), at no point did I say I was going to leave any forum. Why would I say that? It makes no sense; why would I leave when basketball is starting? I've been here for a number of seasons... why would this one be different? I said I'd stop with the political threads, and I did, because KB made it clear, and I am a bit of a rules follower.

Now, fingers crossed that your stalker self copied whatever I wrote that you didn't understand and are now clinging to, like you clung to that other ridiculous thing, and the way you copied and saved Dat's posts for... jesus, was that for year...? maybe then we can clear it up for you. Or maybe you are just full of shit, and making this up like you do everything else. Not sure.

Anyway... give it a rest. You look like a loser. And a bit of a bitch.

Anyhoo... back on topic. Great basketball shows.

 

[TheDude1]

Ive seen parts of both. Some of it is good, some of it sucks. The parts where they talk about the game and the work that goes into it is def fascinating. I fall into the category where I like to watch sports for the sport. Occasionally its fun to hear what these guys do in their down time---but I don't have any desire to watch athletes talk politics. More and more it seems like it invades every conversation. Im burnt out...regardless of affiliation.

As an American history guy with a love of sport, I LOVE when they intersect My enjoyment in sports isn't impacted at all by the historical/social part of it.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Hail.

I get that you are a crazy stalker. I get that you are obsessed with me. I get it. It's okay; sometimes when someone has nothing going on in their own life, they fixate on other stuff. It's REALLY weird... enough people say "Hey, did you know Hail is responding to you?" even though you know I have you on ignore... but fine, I get it.

But as was pointed out ad nauseum to you (I CAN see what other people write), at no point did I say I was going to leave any forum. Why would I say that? It makes no sense; why would I leave when basketball is starting? I've been here for a number of seasons... why would this one be different? I said I'd stop with the political threads, and I did, because KB made it clear, and I am a bit of a rules follower.

Now, fingers crossed that your stalker self copied whatever I wrote that you didn't understand and are now clinging to, like you clung to that other ridiculous thing, and the way you copied and saved Dat's posts for... jesus, was that for year...? maybe then we can clear it up for you. Or maybe you are just full of shit, and making this up like you do everything else. Not sure.

Anyway... give it a rest. You look like a loser. And a bit of a bitch.

Anyhoo... back on topic. Great basketball shows.

You literally said you were going back to the duke forum when the season started and off topic threads were gettined snipped. Now you deny it?

 

[TheDude1]

Nope, I didn't literally say it. That doesn't even make sense. Why would I do that?

Please. I'm sure you copied the quote. Share away. I actually seem to remember you making this mistake originally, and people correcting you at the time.

 

[toonces11]

As an American history guy with a love of sport, I LOVE when they intersect My enjoyment in sports isn't impacted at all by the historical/social part of it.

If it were an infrequent thing, then I think I would be more interested. But b/t news, social media, and the decline of sports networks being solely about sports---I just feel like it has invaded far too many conversations.

Its the same way I feel about highlights. I want to see clips of games where the show the player/s that had the big night that night. Its like watching golf and the coverage literally spends 60% of the time talking about tiger...even though he is mathematically eliminated and they spend a fraction of the time talking about how well the top three have played.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Why would I do that?

The same reason you would vouch to not post in certain political threads and still mosey back in and post.

The same reason you would put me on ignore and then continue to respond to me.


You can't follow anything you say through. Sad.

 

[TheDude1]

Ah. Got it. So you are a liar AND a bitch. And it is MY issue that I get curious and respond to your BS lies once every six months, and not YOUR issue that you obsessively respond to me in every thread and follow me around like a lovesick puppy, lying every time. Right. Makes sense

Hey, at least you aren't obsessively copying and saving people's posts from years past because you are butthurt that they made fun of your daddy paying for your college or because of your nursing job or whatever. Hope you gave your therapist a good holiday tip; he is worth every penny.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Please. I'm sure you copied the quote.

I have only copied a few posts of yours and you know what those ones are. I haven't posted them or made any jokes towards you about them since I said I was moving past it.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Ah. Got it. So you are a liar AND a bitch. And it is MY issue that I get curious and respond to your BS lies once every six months, and not YOUR issue that you obsessively respond to me in every thread and follow me around like a lovesick puppy, lying every time. Right. Makes sense

Hey, at least you aren't obsessively copying and saving people's posts from years past because you are butthurt that they made fun of your daddy paying for your college or because of your nursing job or whatever. Hope you gave your therapist a good holiday tip; he is worth every penny.

I haven't posted your creepy quotes in like a year and this is the thanks I get?

 

[lurkeraspect84]

If it were an infrequent thing, then I think I would be more interested. But b/t news, social media, and the decline of sports networks being solely about sports---I just feel like it has invaded far too many conversations.

Its the same way I feel about highlights. I want to see clips of games where the show the player/s that had the big night that night. Its like watching golf and the coverage literally spends 60% of the time talking about tiger...even though he is mathematically eliminated and they spend a fraction of the time talking about how well the top three have played.

That's always been a pet peeve of mine.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I have only copied a few posts of yours and you know what those ones are. I haven't posted them or made any jokes towards you about them since I said I was moving past it.

Was that the creepy sex posts?

 

[TheDude1]

That's always been a pet peeve of mine.

We've REALLY had that this year, with Zion... we had a few games where Tre Jones was a BEAST, but the highlights were all Zion. If you watched only highlights, you'd never even know Jack White is on Duke's team, even though he has had some games where he was a key to winning.

I guess at the end of the day, with highlights, they put on what they think the "average" viewer wants to see. It will likely NEVER be what a fan of that team would endorse. In the end, it's profit driven, so everything else ends up being secondary.

 

[Random UK Fan]

Would like to see both, but I don't have Showtime for the SU&D. Any other way to catch it? What are the social conversational highlights of it?

 

[Random UK Fan]

A quick google search shows..

http://putlockers.fm/watch/LxR05ndO-shut-up-and-dribble-season-1.html

From what I could tell, it looked like a tool to stir racial and political issues with "the man" from a mocking minority tone. I could get through it fine, but I could see a multipage thread donnybrook happening real quick on just this show alone.

I just see America as imperfect but precious. Warts and all.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

From what I could tell, it looked like a tool to stir racial and political issues with "the man" from a mocking minority tone. I could get through it fine, but I could see a multipage thread donnybrook happening real quick on just this show alone.

I just see America as imperfect but precious. Warts and all.

I started it as well, but didn't get far into it. I just don't have an interest in watching someone interject politics into sports. I also couldn't care less about actors, comedians,or other "entertainers" thoughts on anything political or religious.

Shut up and dance.

 

[TheDude1]

From what I could tell, it looked like a tool to stir racial and political issues with "the man" from a mocking minority tone. I could get through it fine, but I could see a multipage thread donnybrook happening real quick on just this show alone.

I just see America as imperfect but precious. Warts and all.

DEFINITELY not that. Really thoughtful look at how a sport that has been so heavily African American for so long both reflected some societal norms but also challenged some societal norms, and at how African American athletes are simultaneously held up as “heroes” (in so much as an athlete can be a hero) and are loved and yet sometimes are also treated as people who shouldn’t have an opinion or share said opinion. Looks at how basketball as a whole has impacted society, how it is maybe the most socially “relevant” of the major sports, and how it has been impacted by race. Some really interesting bits for anyone interested in basketball, and anyone interested in history and society.

Yes, it would be tough to discuss in depth here, because some people really get worked up, and because some people don’t like to discuss sports and society. But athletics has always been tied into society in some way, and particularly for black athletes... from Bill Russell to Ali to Kareem to Brown to Iverson. My guess is that some of the people here who get most upset when sports and society intersect would do best with the first two episodes, which cover up until around the early 90s or so.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

DEFINITELY not that. Really thoughtful look at how a sport that has been so heavily African American for so long both reflected some societal norms but also challenged some societal norms, and at how African American athletes are simultaneously held up as “heroes” (in so much as an athlete can be a hero) and are loved and yet sometimes are also treated as people who shouldn’t have an opinion or share said opinion. Looks at how basketball as a whole has impacted society, how it is maybe the most socially “relevant” of the major sports, and how it has been impacted by race. Some really interesting bits for anyone interested in basketball, and anyone interested in history and society.

Yes, it would be tough to discuss in depth here, because some people really get worked up, and because some people don’t like to discuss sports and society. But athletics has always been tied into society in some way, and particularly for black athletes... from Bill Russell to Ali to Kareem to Brown to Iverson. My guess is that some of the people here who get most upset when sports and society intersect would do best with the first two episodes, which cover up until around the early 90s or so.

 

[TheDude1]

I started it as well, but didn't get far into it. I just don't have an interest in watching someone interject politics into sports. I also couldn't care less about actors, comedians,or other "entertainers" thoughts on anything political or religious.

Shut up and dance.

Lurker, “politics” as you call it (I see it more as “life”) has ALWAYS played a part in sports. From the negro leagues to black people not being allowed to coach to Kareem boycotting the 86 Olympics over the treatment of black athletes all the way up to the “thugization” of the NBA in the early 90s and even to the modern day, it’s always been there. My guess is that the people who have never been impacted by any of it are less likely to see that than the people who have been?

If I may... if you are a sports fan, I’d suggest watching it. At the very least it’s a great look back at some fascinating sports stories, with some great interviews with all sorts of folks about them.

Btw, fascinating to hear Artest and David Stern and the rest talk about the Menace at the Palace. Unreal what an impact that had on the modern NBA. But very funny that Stern’s way of dealing with it was primarily a dress code! It was as a response to how the “gang/thug” culture (from which many players had come) had crept into the game, and very visibly in terms of clothing and outfits and the rest. And amazingly it seemed to have worked!. They also discuss how that dress code has really had an impact on fashion and how the players really changed what it was.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

Btw, fascinating to hear Artest and David Stern and the rest talk about the Menace(sic) at the Palace. Unreal what an impact that had on the modern NBA. But very funny that Stern’s way of dealing with it was primarily a dress code! It was as a response to how the “gang/thug” culture (from which many players had come) had crept into the game, and very visibly in terms of clothing and outfits and the rest. And amazingly it seemed to have worked!. They also discuss how that dress code has really had an impact on fashion and how the players really changed what it was.

That's cool.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

AfricanAmerican athletes are simultaneously held up as “heroes” (in so much as an athlete can be a hero) and are loved and yet sometimes are also treated aspeople who shouldn’t have an opinion or share saidopinion.

That's because they are sports heroes, not political heroes. That's why we want them to be an athlete who has opinions instead of an athlete who uses their stage to push their opinions. It doesn't matter race, affiliations or who they play for. Most people don't want to see their favorite, or not favorite athlete go too far into mixing sports and politics. And that does not make them racist or intolerant.

 

[TheDude1]

Btw, was just getting to the big brawl with the wife (who didn’t know about it) and I was like “Oh shit... here we go...” and it was amazing because she didn’t know about it. Her face when it happened... Also amazing that I can’t even IMAGINE that happening today in the NBA. It wasn’t THAT long ago... but I just cannot imagine it happening. I am not sure there is a league that has been better at managing its role in society, it’s relationship with its players, and it’s own image and brand than the NBA over the last fifteen years.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

That's because they are sports heroes, not political heroes. That's why we want them to be an athlete who has opinions instead of an athlete who uses their stage to push their opinions. It doesn't matter race, affiliations or who they play for. Most people don't want to see their favorite, or not favorite athlete go too far into mixing sports and politics. And that does not make them racist or intolerant.

I've always heard/read, "people shouldn't meet their heroes".

 

[TheDude1]

That's because they are sports heroes, not political heroes. That's why we want them to be an athlete who has opinions instead of an athlete who uses their stage to push their opinions. It doesn't matter race, affiliations or who they play for. Most people don't want to see their favorite, or not favorite athlete go too far into mixing sports and politics. And that does not make them racist or intolerant.

Letsgo, not trying to start a disagreement, I swear... but all of those times you are using “we” or “most people”, it’s more “I” and “some people.” Maybe race, affiliations, or who they play for doesn’t matter to YOU, but it absolutely matters to many people.

To millions of African Americans, black athletes have been far more than just athletes for years. From giving back to their “home” communities to speaking out about social issues, the expected role of the black American athlete has always been different for different Americans. Jim Brown, Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Ali, Magic Johnson, even LeBron nowadays... I think their expected role, and meaning, is different for different people, and certainly different for black Americans.

Anyway... I’m not saying you are wrong for determining what’s important to YOU, but what you or I see as valued in a athlete is not necessarily what others see as valued. And frankly, I think we’d agree that, in vacuum, what a person does for their community or society is more important than throwing a ball through a basket

 

[schoonerwest]

Lurker, “politics” as you call it (I see it more as “life”) has ALWAYS played a part in sports. From the negro leagues to black people not being allowed to coach to Kareem boycotting the 86 Olympics over the treatment of black athletes all the way up to the “thugization” of the NBA in the early 90s and even to the modern day, it’s always been there. My guess is that the people who have never been impacted by any of it are less likely to see that than the people who have been?

If I may... if you are a sports fan, I’d suggest watching it. At the very least it’s a great look back at some fascinating sports stories, with some great interviews with all sorts of folks about them.

Btw, fascinating to hear Artest and David Stern and the rest talk about the Menace at the Palace. Unreal what an impact that had on the modern NBA. But very funny that Stern’s way of dealing with it was primarily a dress code! It was as a response to how the “gang/thug” culture (from which many players had come) had crept into the game, and very visibly in terms of clothing and outfits and the rest. And amazingly it seemed to have worked!. They also discuss how that dress code has really had an impact on fashion and how the players really changed what it was.

Sounds interesting and definitely worth checking out. But I think when most people say they don’t care to hear athletes/entertainers views on politics/social issues they are talking more about the day to day activity you see and hear about through twitter and other media outlets. Most of these people aren’t exactly experts on anything they are talking about and following them closely for news or any other opinion seems like a chore. I think people would rather go to their news outlets or read articles written by people who make a living researching topics like that. I mean who really cares what Jimmy Butler or Sam Bradford or Lindsay Lohan has to say about the military industrial complex and the POTUS?

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Letsgo, I’ll drop it after this, I swear... but all of those times you are using “we”, it’s more “I.” Maybe race, affiliations, or who they play for doesn’t matter to YOU, but it absolutely matters to many people.

To millions of African Americans, black athletes have been far more than just athletes for years. From giving back to their “home” communities to speaking out about social issues, the expected role of the black American athlete has always been different for different Americans. Jim Brown, Jesse Owens, Jackie Robinson, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Ali, Magic Johnson, even LeBron nowadays... I think their expected role, and meaning, is different for different people, and certainly different for black Americans.

Anyway... I’m not saying you are wrong for determining what’s important to YOU, but what you or I see as valued in a athlete is not necessarily what others see as valued. And frankly, I think we’d agree that, in vacuum, what a person does for their community or society is more important than throwing a ball through a basket

We. As in the people who agree with my opinion. I literally used that word all those....... one time.

And I never said anything about people not mattering to me. Shit how do you get these things out of what I said?

 

[TheDude1]

Sounds interesting and definitely worth checking out. But I think when most people say they don’t care to hear athletes/entertainers views on politics/social issues they are talking more about the day to day activity you see and hear about through twitter and other media outlets. Most of these people aren’t exactly experts on anything they are talking about and following them closely for news or any other opinion seems like a chore. I think people would rather go to their news outlets or read articles written by people who make a living researching topics like that. I mean who really cares what Jimmy Butler or Sam Bradford or Lindsay Lohan has to say about the military industrial complex and the POTUS?

Oh, don’t disagree at all... but do be careful of writing off an entire group of people because of their chosen profession. For every dumbass who is spouting off because they think they heard something or know something, there is a thoughtful guy like Kareem or Karl Anthony Towns or Shane Battier or even LeBron, guys who have value beyond just chucking a ball in a hoop. Now, I know some people want a hard line stance... “I only care about their sports, and I don’t ever want anything else covered in my sports news” but I do not think that is possible. It may have been more possible twenty or thirty years, when the ownership and management of these sorts of outlets was exclusively old, white, and male, but it’s just not reasonable when said ownership and management looks more like America as it truly is.

 

[TheDude1]

We. As in the people who agree with my opinion. I literally used that word all those....... one time.

And I never said anything about people not mattering to me. Shit how do you get these things out of what I said?

Dude, I’m not starting an issue with you. Fine, “we” or “most people.” What I am trying to say is that your opinion on what an athlete should or should not be isn’t necessarily shared by everyone. I’m sure you agree? If you meant “we” and your post entirely as people who share your opinion I get it.

And I never said these people don’t matter to you? Why would I say that? You said their race and the rest doesn’t matter... but it does to some people, both positively and negatively. Otherwise I’m sure they matter to you?

My guess is we see eye to eye on this topic, to be honest? Not that you necessarily agree with me on what an athletes role is, but thaf you might have a different opinion than some other people. That’s it.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I cringe when I hear it from a coworker, I cringe when I read it from sports message board posters. I cringe when I hear it from entertainers.

No one cares...I couldn't care less about their opinions/beliefs/struggles/bad dreams at night.

Just because I watch someone perform or give them a platform in my living room doesn't mean, I have any relation with them or give a shit about their...see above.

Edit: Nevermind, this thread is heading exactly where it was meant to. Peace.

 

[TheDude1]

I cringe when I hear it from a coworker, I cringe when I read it from sports message board posters. I cringe when I hear it from entertainers.

No one cares about their opinions/beliefs/struggles/bad dreams at night.

Just because I watch someone perform or give them a platform in my living room doesn't mean, I have any relation with them or give a shit about their...see above.

Edit: Nevermind, this thread is heading exactly where it was meant to. Peace.

I disagree... I think the thread is just fine. People can disagree and be okay with it you know. I’m certainly not fired up or anything, and I don’t think anyone has made a particularly bad or offensive or whatever point? And I don’t think I have?

And I do care about other people’s opinions. I think it’s a bit strange not to? Doesn’t mean I’ll agree with them, or change my ways because of them, but I have no problem hearing other people’s opinions. Sometimes I even learn something or see something in a different way because of being exposed to an idea or concept in a way that I, with my life experiences, didnt see. That’s good, I think.

 

[lurkeraspect84]

I disagree... I think the thread is just fine. People can disagree and be okay with it you know. I’m certainly not fired up or anything, and I don’t think anyone has made a particularly bad or offensive or whatever point? And I don’t think I have?

And I do care about other people’s opinions. I think it’s a bit strange not to? Doesn’t mean I’ll agree with them, or change my ways because of them, but I have no problem hearing other people’s opinions. Sometimes I even learn something or see something in a different way because of being exposed to an idea or concept in a way that I, with my life experiences, didnt see. That’s good, I think.

Wasn't this just a completely different post a minute ago? Busting balls, have fun.

 

[LetsGoDuke301]

Dude, I’m not starting an issue with you. Fine, “we” or “most people.” What I am trying to say is that your opinion on what an athlete should or should not be isn’t necessarily shared by everyone. I’m sure you agree? If you meant “we” and your post entirely as people who share your opinion I get it.

And I never said these people don’t matter to you? Why would I say that? You said their race and the rest doesn’t matter... but it does to some people, both positively and negatively. Otherwise I’m sure they matter to you?

My guess is we see eye to eye on this topic, to be honest? Not that you necessarily agree with me on what an athletes role is, but thaf you might have a different opinion than some other people. That’s it.

I know that not everyone shares my opinions. Why would I give my opinions if I didn't? This whole argument is you telling me your opinions on my opinions. I am giving my opinions on the topic. When I say their race and the rest don't matter, I mean it doesn't matter to most people what their race and the rest is. They just don't want to be showered with politics when they are trying to watch sports.

And no worries on the issues. There is no hard feelings about our disagreements.

 

[TheDude1]

Good stuff. I’m really not looking to say anything negative about anyone here, so if I wrote something that sounds that way, I may have just been inarticulate.

And really, I wasn’t being facetious... if you are a bit sick of society/sports/politics but still want to check it out, just check out the first two episodes. Leaves off I think in the 90s.

 

[toonces11]

Oh, don’t disagree at all... but do be careful of writing off an entire group of people because of their chosen profession. For every dumbass who is spouting off because they think they heard something or know something, there is a thoughtful guy like Kareem or Karl Anthony Towns or Shane Battier or even LeBron, guys who have value beyond just chucking a ball in a hoop. Now, I know some people want a hard line stance... “I only care about their sports, and I don’t ever want anything else covered in my sports news” but I do not think that is possible. It may have been more possible twenty or thirty years, when the ownership and management of these sorts of outlets was exclusively old, white, and male, but it’s just not reasonable when said ownership and management looks more like America as it truly is.

I wouldn't say its writing off an entire profession...I think its just become so oversaturated and co-mingled that its tiresome. Its not about just chucking a ball in a hoop, but the opinions are treated like some huge revelation and significant, when oftentimes they are a dime a dozen. I don't think its a stretch to say sporting news has become more click bait then actual sporting news.

 

[Random UK Fan]

guys who have value beyond just chucking a ball in a hoop.

This is an interesting thought . . . I think fans establish someone's "value" based on what they're paying to see. Obviously these people have value as human beings, and entitled to their opinions based on experience, etc but possibly most fans just want the product they pay for, which is to ball, act, entertain and so on. I think this is where these opinions cause divisiveness and generally irritate so many people.

I don't get too worked up over such things, but I can understand why fans become disappointed by the people they admire.

Here's a question for you;

Do you think celebrities have a duty to broach injustices, real or percieved?

 

[TheDude1]

This is an interesting thought . . . I think fans establish someone's "value" based on what they're paying to see. Obviously these people have value as human beings, and entitled to their opinions based on experience, etc but possibly most fans just want the product they pay for, which is to ball, act, entertain and so on. I think this is where these opinions cause divisiveness and generally irritate so many people.

I don't get too worked up over such things, but I can understand why fans become disappointed by the people they admire.

Here's a question for you;

Do you think celebrities have a duty to broach injustices, real or percieved?

I get what you mean. But we aren’t paying the athletes often. When they play in a basketball game, which is what we generally pay for (tickets) they just play. It’s when they aren’t playing, when we aren’t paying them, that I think they are allowed to do whatever they want. If we follow them on twitter, or we turn on sports tv, and we hear that stuff, so be it.

And I think ALL people have said duty. If you have a broad platform, good for you. Just hope they do it in the right way.

 

[TheDude1]

I wouldn't say its writing off an entire profession...I think its just become so oversaturated and co-mingled that its tiresome. Its not about just chucking a ball in a hoop, but the opinions are treated like some huge revelation and significant, when oftentimes they are a dime a dozen. I don't think its a stretch to say sporting news has become more click bait then actual sporting news.

T, do you watch ESPN or listen to sports talk radio or anything? I haven’t watched anything but Duke stuff (and a few 30 in 30s) in ages. Do you follow athletes on social media?