Why so much love for the Big 12? I mean really

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by ManRoar, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. ManRoar

    ManRoar Well-Known Member
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    Kansas locked the outright up... With that being said



    From 2005-2015 (KU's streak of winning that conference), the Big 12 has TWO Final Four appearances (Kansas in 2008 and 2012). The SEC has SEVEN...Kentucky (3), Florida (3), and LSU (1).
     
  2. KisteK

    KisteK Well-Known Member
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    100% of FFs end in NC Title Games


    ..... I just wanted to nab a win itt.

    Carry on.
     
  3. sdsufan10

    sdsufan10 Well-Known Member
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    There is more to conference strength than final 4s.
     
  4. ManRoar

    ManRoar Well-Known Member
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    lol ok ? So advancing far in the tourney and sustaining tournament success is... Not as importsnt as having several "solid" teams who don't make finals fours ?



    FF's and Titles trump regular season warriors. Fact.
     
  5. sdsufan10

    sdsufan10 Well-Known Member
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    There are more than 2 teams in the SEC and 1 in the big 12. The SEC has been a bad conference for years, it has Florida usually and UK up there but after that the drop off is huge. The big 12 currently has a bunch of very good teams, SEC has 2 (UK and Arkansas)
     
  6. RockChalkRally

    RockChalkRally Well-Known Member
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    Kansas hasn't locked anything up outright as far as a Big 12 regular season title is concerned.....with that being said:

    Enjoy the success your Wildcats are having this season. We're seeing potential history in the making as UK has a chance to win the national championship while going unbeaten which is pretty damn awesome. Even as a KU fan, watching what UK is doing has been a hell of a lot of fun. Outside of this season, UK has been the gold standard for NCAA Tourney success with national title appearances in 2011, 2012, 2014 with winning it all in 2012.

    The SEC numbers you pointed out have been impressive over the years but the my main concern is.....are you okay? Sorry the Big 12 Conference as a whole takes precedence over the SEC as a whole. Somewhere along the lines your're going to survive. The ACC and Big 12 have been the best 2 conferences this season and it's really not that close.
     
  7. 829305

    829305 Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]

    Great post.
     
  8. PennJayhawk

    PennJayhawk Well-Known Member
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    Because they outperformed everyone in Nov and Dec and the only team that struggled OOC is sitting at the bottom of the standings.

    This isn't complicated, even for the most insecure people. "Conference strength" means diddly squat once March rolls around. What matters the most in the Dance are seeds, random match-ups and a lot of luck.

    Every single year we do the same thing. The top-rated conference doesn't put 4 teams in the Final Four and people blabber on and on about how that conference was overrated. Then one team from a lesser-rated conference makes it to the final weekend and its fans say their conference was clearly the best.

    The SEC not being as strong as the other top conferences in no way hurts our perception of this UK team. They're playing incredible basketball, and would be just as good if not better against a tougher conference schedule. When they aren't up 20 pts on a team it is surprising at this point.
     
  9. KDcats11

    KDcats11 Well-Known Member
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    I agree that having Final Fours between 3 different teams doesn't necessarily mean that the SEC is stronger, and I wouldn't argue that. With that said the OP does have a point. KU faces stiff competition every year, but they seemingly never have to face any elite opponents that could take their crown. It's been the opposite in the SEC where you have UK and UF both having nearly equal success and both being elite many times in that period. So with UK competing with UF every year it lessens the chance for am SEC. Basically what I mean is the Big 12 has been deeper with no elite teams to beat out KU while the SEC has been top heavy with both UK and UF being elite and competing against each other.
    Posted from Rivals Mobile
     
  10. PennJayhawk

    PennJayhawk Well-Known Member
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    So maybe we'd be #2 in a Big 12 a few more times if they had a Duke or UK. Big deal. Doesn't negate the fact that the conference has still performed better top to bottom compared to all but a couple conferences almost every year during the Big 12 title win streak. If people don't care about depth that's fine, but the stats and NCAA births generally do a good job at determining and rewarding the leagues that performed the best over the course of a year.

    Most of the years UF was "elite," UK was just okay. So I think this point about two elite programs competing isn't exactly true much of the time. It's not like Donovan is just losing SEC games to UK either. The titles override a lot, but he has a worse conference winning percentage than Rick Barnes (and many other harshly criticized coaches).
     
  11. J. Shellacque

    J. Shellacque Well-Known Member
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    What are the big signature out of conference wins does the "Big 12" have this year. Take Kansas for example....leading the way in the "Big 12"......their best out of conference win is Michigan State as far as I can tell, and that team has 8 losses. Are there any other big wins by a "Big 12" team out there against quality opponents?
    This post was edited on 2/26 11:26 AM by J. Shellacque
     
  12. RockChalkRally

    RockChalkRally Well-Known Member
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    For Kansas, add Utah, @Georgetown, Tennessee in with the Michigan State game.
    Iowa State smoked Arkansas 95-77
    Baylor: Texas A&M
    Oklahoma: Butler
    Texas: @UConn
    Kansas State: Purdue, Texas A&M
    West Virginia: UConn, NC State
     
  13. PennJayhawk

    PennJayhawk Well-Known Member
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    The "Big 12" had by far the best OOC win % and played very few games against bad teams. That's why the "Big 12" is statistically on top right now.

    I don't know why some of you Cats fans get so bent out of shape about this conference talk every year. Since the Tourney is all the matters after all, I thought few of you on these boards cared about what happens before March.
     
  14. RockChalkRally

    RockChalkRally Well-Known Member
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    I can't figure it out either. Kentucky is the best team in the country and even though the SEC is more down than it has been in the past, it still doesn't change how dominant UK is. UK is just that good and a slightly down conference doesn't do anything to damage that.
     
  15. J. Shellacque

    J. Shellacque Well-Known Member
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    You only cited two games on the road, and maybe only 3-4 of those teams you listed on the entire list are actually ranked. Not exactly murderers row. The "Big 12" is ......we'll see in the tournament.
     
  16. RockChalkRally

    RockChalkRally Well-Known Member
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    Yep, not exactly murder's row. You've got your schedule and you play who's on it. It really doesn't matter what teams or the number of quality opponents I list, you guys seem to be the only ones with hurt feelings over the entire SEC not being the center of college basketball. Yes the ACC & Big 12 have been publicized as the best conferences in the country. Does it mean anything else other than that? Is it suggesting both conferences will dominate come March Madness? While I agree with both being the better conferences as a whole, it doesn't mean a damn come tourney time. In all honesty, the SEC is going to get more teams in the tourney than many believed early in the season so that even further questions why you guys are so bitter.
     
  17. xWVU2010x

    xWVU2010x Well-Known Member
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    What every ninny fails to get is that it's a top to bottom argument. TCU finished undefeated in the OOC, yes they played no one, but usually a cellar dweller loses to bad opponents. Even Tech played decent OOC. We don't have a bonafide 1 seed but outside of that I don't get how you knock the Big XII. We have about 70% of our league with a tournament worthy resume and the bottom 3 are way better than the bottom 3 in any other league
     
  18. PennJayhawk

    PennJayhawk Well-Known Member
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    Comparative scoring is a usesless exercise, but TCU did beat up the #3 team in the SEC standings.
     
  19. CRUCAT

    CRUCAT Well-Known Member
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    and South Carolina beat Iowa St on a neutral court (also smoked KSU by 22)...

    personally I think the B12 is very good, but not great and will not have a team sniff the FF.
     
  20. Ipartiedwithhopgood

    Ipartiedwithhopgood Well-Known Member
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    The majority of the scores are random.

    Conference affiliation is overblown.
     
  21. ManRoar

    ManRoar Well-Known Member
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    This- it can go both ways
     
  22. KA4Prez

    KA4Prez Well-Known Member
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    I'll say this. The Big XII has 10 teams. The SEC has 14. You can certainly take Texas Tech, TCU and Kansas State and compare them to Missouri, Auburn, South Carolina and Mississippi State, but the true comparison would be to compare them to Florida, Vanderbilt, Tennessee and maybe South Carolina.

    And lets be honest. Florida sucks. So does Tennessee. However, give those teams the OOC schedules of TCU, I honestly don't think the results are any different. And I happen to think TCU is a team that does play tough. Some of those SEC teams do as well, they are just devoid of talent, but moreso, experience.
     
  23. Tampa_cat54

    Tampa_cat54 Well-Known Member
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    Hell, South Carolina smoked both Iowa State AND Oklahoma State.

    Tennessee and Georgia beat up on Kansas State.

    LSU took down West Virginia in Morgantown.

    Florida was an epic meltdown away from beating Kansas in the Phog.

    It certainly goes both ways.
     
  24. ManRoar

    ManRoar Well-Known Member
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    They don't like it when you flip the script on them [​IMG]
     
  25. sdsufan10

    sdsufan10 Well-Known Member
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    Ole miss is 4-0 against those teams you mentioned, they lost to TCU
     
  26. sdsufan10

    sdsufan10 Well-Known Member
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    Kenpom ranking all the schools in big 12/sec

    1. UK
    2. OU
    3. Baylor
    4. KU
    5. Iowa State
    6. Texas
    7. WVU
    8. LSU
    9. Okie State
    10. Arkansas
    11. Ole Miss
    12. Georgia
    13. A & M
    14. Vandy
    15. Florida
    16. TCU
    17. Alabama
    18. South Carolina
    19. KSU
    20. Tennessee
    21. Auburn
    22. MSU
    23. TTU
    24. Missouri


    It's silly this is even a conversation, big 12 is clearly miles better
     
  27. ManRoar

    ManRoar Well-Known Member
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    No one says the sec was better but to act like the SEC is some putrid conference is ignorant. Go back and read thru the thread ya know? Look at the final four appearances.


    #Facts
     
  28. sdsufan10

    sdsufan10 Well-Known Member
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    The SEC went 21-30 vs the pac 5 while the big 12 went 23-16 vs the Pac 5 this year. This is like comparing the sec in football to the pac 12. It is a very silly comparison
     
  29. sdsufan10

    sdsufan10 Well-Known Member
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    You are clearly trolling
     
  30. Chicubsfan24

    Chicubsfan24 Well-Known Member
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    The issue with MR is that he thinks his shtick is far cuter than it is in actuality, which makes it seem as if he thinks he's a lot smarter than he actually is. Oh well.
     
  31. ManRoar

    ManRoar Well-Known Member
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    No- I was just having a little fun with SD fan. Clearly you are upset about the Illinois "uptrend" joke


    I even agreed with SD fan. Obviously the Big 12 is better. My whole point is, you guys on here and media like to take a big dump on the SEC when clearly, as shown by #facts in this thread... It's really not as bad as some say. I do NOT think the SEC is as good as ACC or B12. But I think they are much better than given credit for and the B12 isn't as "great" as they are given credit for.

    Yeah u cant dismiss every point I try to make (and I make solid points) as a "troll" just because you don't have a good answer or rebuttal ya know? Makes you look like you don't have a leg to stand on.
     
  32. RR30

    RR30 Well-Known Member
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    The Big 12 is a good and deep league that lacks an elite team. They are unquestionably better than the SEC. Conference pride is dumb.
     
  33. Chicubsfan24

    Chicubsfan24 Well-Known Member
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    Not an Illinois fan, but killer try turning it around on me. As for this thread, if you go by the criteria which you stated in your second post of FFs being > "Regular season warriors", then that != you saying the B12 is obviously better. So actually you kinda did heavily imply the SEC was better during this time period. Good call though bud. Furthermore, if you knew the B12 was better as you state above, why would you compare the two in the first post? In all likelihood, it was to bait people to say that the B12 is better than the SEC this year (it is) in order to confirm that people are down on the SEC. However, people giving examples on how the B12 is better is not saying the SEC is awful. It's just saying it's not as good as the B12. There's nothing wrong with that. Most knowledgeable posters on this site would agree that the SEC is up this year. Florida is definitely down, but the middle tier is as good as its been in recent memory. I'm not only dismissing every point you make just because you're a troll (this was clearly a bait thread if you were trying to prove your above statement), but also because you're just a really shitty poster and probably an alt. That bums me out, as this board gets unreadable as it is. W/e, this wasn't even worth the time to type.
     
  34. PennJayhawk

    PennJayhawk Well-Known Member
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    The previous poster mentioned TCU. It seemed relevent given their place in the Big 12 right now.

    Florida is obviously a screwed up team this year. No idea what to make of SC.

    Overall the head to head doesn't compare, so this exercise is a waste of time.
     
  35. Duncan2588

    Duncan2588 Well-Known Member
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    B12 is slightly better but SEC gets downplayed by having 4 more teams that can either hurt or help and right now they are hurting.

    SEC is coming with better depth. 2 McDs all-Americans to LSU, one to USCe, Mizzou has a decent chance at one (and isn't going to be this bad in the future), AM is recruiting very well, MA has his program on track and will be a tough out, Pearl will build up Auburn, Vandy is young and coming, TN, Ole Miss, Bama,UGA will be decent, FL will come back, UK will be UK .... SEC is going to be very solid the next several years.
     
  36. Turinturumbar

    Turinturumbar Well-Known Member
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    The Big XII is good, not because we're great at the top but because there are a lot of decent to good teams with few bad teams.

    That being said, I agree that the league is overrated. On the other hand though, does a Kentucky fan have to start this same thread every time ISU, OU, or KU loses?
     
  37. SpartanJD

    SpartanJD Well-Known Member
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    Every year, the B12 is the single most overrated conference in college hoops. The fact KU has won it 12 years in a row just shows how pathetic the league is. The teams flop in the NCAAs every year too.

    In the last 10 years, 4 different B1G teams have made the national title game. 5 different if you go back to 2002. That's called league depth.
     
  38. SpartanJD

    SpartanJD Well-Known Member
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    Everyone knows though that SEC hoops is beyond pathetic. Its really embarrassing how bad SEC hoops is top to bottom but we aren't talking about that.
     
  39. PennJayhawk

    PennJayhawk Well-Known Member
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    When is the league ever overrated? Almost every year you jagoffs gush about the Big 10, ACC or the Big East (before its destruction. With the exception of KU the last couple of years Big 12 teams have played to seed.

    The Big 12 won 65% of it's non-conference games. That is the best number for a conference since 1991. It's not like we don't have an endless supply of facts to argue this dumb topic.

    When the same top teams in a conference advance far in March how does that support the depth argument exactly? The same bad programs are still the same bad programs from the middle down to the bottom.
     
  40. PennJayhawk

    PennJayhawk Well-Known Member
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    You know the answer.
     

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