Who is the greatest College Basketball program ever?

ThePhog08

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To me 5 teams have legit claims to be the face of college basketball. KU can claim history of coaches and wins, UK decades of dominance, UNC modern era titles and MJ the goat, UCLA # of titles, Duke uh meh...

I have created an unbiased, inarguable, full proof point system to determine this for us...

I tried to remain unbiased, so I didn't put categories that would lean to KU. Like, # of consecutives ncaa tourney appearances all time ect...

"
1rst place in a category is 5 points, then 4, then 3 ect. A tie give both team the same amount of pts. NC are worth more
National titles - UCLA 6 pts, UK 5 pts, UNC 4 pts, Duke/KU 3 pts
Conference titles - KU 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, UCLA 2, Duke 1
Wins - KU 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, Duke 2 Pts, UCLA 1 pt
Winning % UK 5 pts, UNC 4 pts, KU 3 pts, Duke 2, UCLA 1
NBA All stars all time - UCLA 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, Duke 2 , KU 1
All Americans - KU 5 pts, UK/UNC 4, Duke 3 pts, UCLA 2 pts
Conference tourney titles - UK 5 pts, KU/Duke 4, UCLA/UNC 3
Final fours - UNC 5 PTS , UCLA 4, UK/Duke 3, KU 2
College bball hall of fame KU / UCLA 5 pts, UNC 4, UK 3, Duke 2
NCAA tourney appearances UK 5 pts, UNC 4, KU 3 pts, UCLA 2 pts, Duke 1

Greatest programs of all time

#1 38 Points - Kentucky Wildcats
#2 36 Points - Kansas Jayhawks
#3 34 Points - North Carolina Tarheels
#4 31 Points - UCLA Bruins
#3 23 Points - Duke Blue Devils

I think KU should get extra credit for naismith and Rupp/ Dean Smith playing at KU but haters would hate
 

Yet Another UK Fan

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You know my vote and I love the dook evaluation. Those taintsniffs just copied Cal’s method and failed at it too! It drove K out because he wasn’t strong enough to stay the course any further. It’s a grind and Cal can take it. K couldn’t keep up with Cal’s stamina and Cal outworked and outlasted that nogoodnik! Ha!
 

ThePhog08

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What this really showed my is Duke really is coach k. The lack of prestige before him hurt many categories.
 

cooljeff

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always fun to do these and thank you for taking the time. Any criteria you include will lead to questions/etc. but that is part of the fun.

A few minor comments: I am not sure if I support the inclusion of # of nba all stars as a criteria...I see how it impacts "perception" of the program on some level but that impact should be felt in other areas. It by definition has nothing to do with college performance.

I always prefer to have separate categories or at least more heavily weight modern era success (wins, FF, titles/etc) in some manner vs all time. I think you have to have both for sure but modern era tourney success isworthy of some distinctin vs. historical (imo). Of course then you get into defining modern era but it is the off season so why not?!
 
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della

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Your 'selective' participation is very telling.
Your opinion on who the greatest program is obviously UCLA. It has to be if you're going to be consistent on what think are the proper measurements in deciding who is the best. You have stated that regular season wins mean nothing, so that means postseason wins mean everything. There is no higher postseason win than a National title and UCLA has the most of them, therefore they are the best.

All hail UCLA!
 
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ExitFlagger

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always fun to do these and thank you for taking the time. Any criteria you include will lead to questions/etc. but that is part of the fun.

A few minor comments: I am not sure if I support the inclusion of # of nba all stars as a criteria...I see how it impacts "perception" of the program on some level but that impact should be felt in other areas. It by definition has nothing to do with college performance.

I always prefer to have separate categories or at least more heavily weight modern era success (wins, FF, titles/etc) in some manner vs all time. I think you have to have both for sure but modern era tourney success isworthy of some distinctin vs. historical (imo). Of course then you get into defining modern era but it is the off season so why not?!

Yeah....maybe # of draft picks, but All Stars doesn't mean a lot.

And get ready to face the pitchforks for having the gall to type the phrase "modern era." 🤣
 
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ExitFlagger

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Your opinion on who the greatest program is obviously UCLA. It has to be if you're going to be consistent on what think are the proper measurements in deciding who is the best. You have stated that regular season wins mean nothing, so that means postseason wins mean everything. There is no higher postseason win than a National title and UCLA has the most of them, therefore they are the best.

All hail UCLA!

They tend to back themselves into corners often, no?
 
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JC for 3

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Your opinion on who the greatest program is obviously UCLA. It has to be if you're going to be consistent on what think are the proper measurements in deciding who is the best. You have stated that regular season wins mean nothing, so that means postseason wins mean everything. There is no higher postseason win than a National title and UCLA has the most of them, therefore they are the best.

All hail UCLA!
The deflecting, spinning, dodging continues. I guess you missed this in the OP:

Greatest programs of all time

#1 38 Points - Kentucky Wildcats
#2 36 Points - Kansas Jayhawks
#3 34 Points - North Carolina Tarheels
#4 31 Points - UCLA Bruins
#3 23 Points - Duke Blue Devils
 

KUhawks34

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I think KU, UNC and UK are the top 3 for sure. UCLA and Duke are reliant on one thing.

At the end of the day they are all equally great programs but as far as the historical perspective of who is the best (which really doesn’t mean anything) then I would rank it UK, UNC, KU, UCLA, Duke.

Most of these are close enough that a run of titles could clearly put a certain team on top without question.
 

della

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The deflecting, spinning, dodging continues. I guess you missed this in the OP:

Greatest programs of all time

#1 38 Points - Kentucky Wildcats
#2 36 Points - Kansas Jayhawks
#3 34 Points - North Carolina Tarheels
#4 31 Points - UCLA Bruins
#3 23 Points - Duke Blue Devils
11>8 end of story...

Points are nothing but pretend rationale to achieve a goal. It is spin.

UCLA is the greatest by everything you hold dear, so join me in crowning UCLA as the GOAT. 🙂
 
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ThePhog08

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I think NBA all stars matter as far as branding and I do think brand plays a part in greatness. Having MJ and Wilt ties to KU and UNC has done a ton for the programs. Draft picks certainly could be another criteria.

I also considered NIT's or missing the tourney as a negative on points.
 

Random UK Fan

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11>8 end of story...

Points are nothing but pretend rationale to achieve a goal. It is spin.

UCLA is the greatest by everything you hold dear, so join me in crowning UCLA as the GOAT. 🙂
I don’t disagree with this. The part that makes it so . . . I don’t know . . . confusing(?) . . . is that for UCLA their time was so specific to a decade. The trophies matter. I think UK needs to pass them to put the debate to bed.
 

della

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I don’t disagree with this. The part that makes it so . . . I don’t know . . . confusing(?) . . . is that for UCLA their time was so specific to a decade. The trophies matter. I think UK needs to pass them to put the debate to bed.

cat_hanging.jpg

Of course, I deny the premise altogether. I think regular season wins matter, but if Uk fans are going to drag that rope I'll be happy to hang them with it.

However, there really is no debate 11>8 and talking about UCLA's getting all done in a flash would be "time framing". 😁
 

ExitFlagger

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I don’t disagree with this. The part that makes it so . . . I don’t know . . . confusing(?) . . . is that for UCLA their time was so specific to a decade. The trophies matter. I think UK needs to pass them to put the debate to bed.

You wouldn't be....uh.....timeframing would you? 🤣

In seriousness...UCLA gets disrespected in these discussions. They were good 100 years ago and they're good right now. They had an unprecedented run of dominance but also won a title in the 90s, with final fours in all but I think two decades, and three straight final fours in the late 2000s. Near the top in pretty much every category.

The "not enough consistency" bit is way overblown.
 

della

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You wouldn't be....uh.....timeframing would you? 🤣

In seriousness...UCLA gets disrespected in these discussions. They were good 100 years ago and they're good right now. They had an unprecedented run of dominance but also won a title in the 90s, with final fours in all but I think two decades, and three straight final fours in the late 2000s. Near the top in pretty much every category.

The "not enough consistency" bit is way overblown.
NOTWORHTY.gif

I can't cede the official UK criteria for ranking and that is championships. It doesn't matter when you win them as long as you do. UK fans need to realize like the rest of us that they are not worthy.

As you can see, Kevin gets it and Random gets it. We just need to round up Scooter and JC.
 

Afamu

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You know my vote and I love the dook evaluation. Those taintsniffs just copied Cal’s method and failed at it too! It drove K out because he wasn’t strong enough to stay the course any further. It’s a grind and Cal can take it. K couldn’t keep up with Cal’s stamina and Cal outworked and outlasted that nogoodnik! Ha!
Duke won a NC with that method. Has Cal?
 
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Bert Higginbotha

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To me 5 teams have legit claims to be the face of college basketball. KU can claim history of coaches and wins, UK decades of dominance, UNC modern era titles and MJ the goat, UCLA # of titles, Duke uh meh...

I have created an unbiased, inarguable, full proof point system to determine this for us...

I tried to remain unbiased, so I didn't put categories that would lean to KU. Like, # of consecutives ncaa tourney appearances all time ect...

"
1rst place in a category is 5 points, then 4, then 3 ect. A tie give both team the same amount of pts. NC are worth more
National titles - UCLA 6 pts, UK 5 pts, UNC 4 pts, Duke/KU 3 pts
Conference titles - KU 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, UCLA 2, Duke 1
Wins - KU 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, Duke 2 Pts, UCLA 1 pt
Winning % UK 5 pts, UNC 4 pts, KU 3 pts, Duke 2, UCLA 1
NBA All stars all time - UCLA 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, Duke 2 , KU 1
All Americans - KU 5 pts, UK/UNC 4, Duke 3 pts, UCLA 2 pts
Conference tourney titles - UK 5 pts, KU/Duke 4, UCLA/UNC 3
Final fours - UNC 5 PTS , UCLA 4, UK/Duke 3, KU 2
College bball hall of fame KU / UCLA 5 pts, UNC 4, UK 3, Duke 2
NCAA tourney appearances UK 5 pts, UNC 4, KU 3 pts, UCLA 2 pts, Duke 1

Greatest programs of all time

#1 38 Points - Kentucky Wildcats
#2 36 Points - Kansas Jayhawks
#3 34 Points - North Carolina Tarheels
#4 31 Points - UCLA Bruins
#3 23 Points - Duke Blue Devils

I think KU should get extra credit for naismith and Rupp/ Dean Smith playing at KU but haters would hate
The greatest of all time is Texas Western.
 

Afamu

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To me 5 teams have legit claims to be the face of college basketball. KU can claim history of coaches and wins, UK decades of dominance, UNC modern era titles and MJ the goat, UCLA # of titles, Duke uh meh...

I have created an unbiased, inarguable, full proof point system to determine this for us...

I tried to remain unbiased, so I didn't put categories that would lean to KU. Like, # of consecutives ncaa tourney appearances all time ect...

"
1rst place in a category is 5 points, then 4, then 3 ect. A tie give both team the same amount of pts. NC are worth more
National titles - UCLA 6 pts, UK 5 pts, UNC 4 pts, Duke/KU 3 pts
Conference titles - KU 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, UCLA 2, Duke 1
Wins - KU 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, Duke 2 Pts, UCLA 1 pt
Winning % UK 5 pts, UNC 4 pts, KU 3 pts, Duke 2, UCLA 1
NBA All stars all time - UCLA 5 pts, UK 4 pts, UNC 3 pts, Duke 2 , KU 1
All Americans - KU 5 pts, UK/UNC 4, Duke 3 pts, UCLA 2 pts
Conference tourney titles - UK 5 pts, KU/Duke 4, UCLA/UNC 3
Final fours - UNC 5 PTS , UCLA 4, UK/Duke 3, KU 2
College bball hall of fame KU / UCLA 5 pts, UNC 4, UK 3, Duke 2
NCAA tourney appearances UK 5 pts, UNC 4, KU 3 pts, UCLA 2 pts, Duke 1

Greatest programs of all time

#1 38 Points - Kentucky Wildcats
#2 36 Points - Kansas Jayhawks
#3 34 Points - North Carolina Tarheels
#4 31 Points - UCLA Bruins
#3 23 Points - Duke Blue Devils

I think KU should get extra credit for naismith and Rupp/ Dean Smith playing at KU but haters would hate
What a flawed poll/survey
 
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JimboBBN

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Outsiders who don’t follow the sport will pick UCLA after looking at one category. Those of us that are pretty much lunatics when it comes to following CBB would and should have UK, KU, Duke, and Carolina above them.
 

ThePhog08

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Outsiders who don’t follow the sport will pick UCLA after looking at one category. Those of us that are pretty much lunatics when it comes to following CBB would and should have UK, KU, Duke, and Carolina above them.
If someone's legacy falls apart by taking out one decade they are not the GOAT

A title is way to difficult to win now adays for that to be the only category.
 

Kevin Bryan

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Darius Miller, Doron Lamb and Terrence Jones say, "hello"..... ;)
So do Quinn Cook, Matt Jones, Amile Jefferson, Rasheed Sulaimon, and Marshall Plumlee.

Minutes played by non-freshman:
2011-12 UK - 3,679 minutes / 40 games = 92 mpg
2014-15 Duke - 3,928 minutes / 39 games = 101 mpg

And that's with Suliamon being kicked off the team halfway though the season or it would've been way more minutes.
 

IUfanBorden

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So do Quinn Cook, Matt Jones, Amile Jefferson, Rasheed Sulaimon, and Marshall Plumlee.

Minutes played by non-freshman:
2011-12 UK - 3,679 minutes / 40 games = 92 mpg
2014-15 Duke - 3,928 minutes / 39 games = 101 mpg

And that's with Suliamon being kicked off the team halfway though the season or it would've been way more minutes.
No dog in this fight....Just pointing out that team, though led by AD/MKG/Teague, was bolstered by the return of Lamb/Jones. And the most overlooked dude, IMO, in UK history, from a title team---Darius Miller.
 

Kevin Bryan

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No dog in this fight....Just pointing out that team, though led by AD/MKG/Teague, was bolstered by the return of Lamb/Jones. And the most overlooked dude, IMO, in UK history, from a title team---Darius Miller.
Indeed. All I'm saying is that there has never been, and never will be, a team of all freshman winning a national championship. Nobody is ever going to have a roster of nothing but freshman in the rotation so there is never an opportunity for it to happen, especially now with NIL and free agency. I assume there has never been a roster to win a natty where all of the contributors were seniors, all juniors, or all sophomores either. To even have a roster constructed like that is slim to none, much less have them winning a title.