What's up with MSU?

[B-Westy]

Your argument ignores all the other players

Yeah but I'm saying I liked the makeup of that team way better due to their veteran leadership and experience.

Of course this MSU team has a higher ceiling with talent like Bridges & Jackson. But there's some intangibles you have to appreciate from the seniors of that 2015-2016 team.

It's still early and even that team had a down cycle due to Valentine missing some games, but there's some toughness missing from this team imo.

I'm very bullish and experience and older players in college. Why I thought Purdue would be really good this year.

 

[dukedevilz]

Fortunately they play in the B1G. They should be able to go 15-3 without too much difficulty.

 

[Silent Banjo]

McQuaid and Nairn both play over 20 MPG and Goins and Shilling both over 10 MPG.

And none of those bench players are especially good.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Fortunately they play in the B1G. They should be able to go 15-3 without too much difficulty.

Right, they don't have to worry about facing juggernauts like Boston College of NC State.

 

[silerbr2]

Right, they don't have to worry about facing juggernauts like Boston College of NC State.

MSU is going thru the yearly January izzo stretch. Every starts to doubt them. They drop a few games they shouldn't and can't be explained. Happens every year and is maddening to me all the same.

MSU is still going to be one of (if not the favorite) favorites come March. This team can win it all.

 

[jadeezra]

MSU is going thru the yearly January izzo stretch. Every starts to doubt them. They drop a few games they shouldn't and can't be explained. Happens every year and is maddening to me all the same.

MSU is still going to be one of (if not the favorite) favorites come March. This team can win it all.

Agreed but has Purdue shown you anything yet ?

 

[Silent Banjo]

MSU is going thru the yearly January izzo stretch. Every starts to doubt them. They drop a few games they shouldn't and can't be explained. Happens every year and is maddening to me all the same.

MSU is still going to be one of (if not the favorite) favorites come March. This team can win it all.

Not saying they can't win it all. I stated in the thread identifying the AP Top 25 that there is not one prohibitive favorite to get to the Final Four. While some teams might be better than others, every team has shown weaknesses, I specifically stated that MSU was the one team that hadn't until they lost credibility with that trouncing by Ohio State. I think that any team can lose in the third round and it wouldn't be that surprising. Nothing against MSU, but they would be vulnerable.

 

[silerbr2]

Agreed but has Purdue shown you anything yet ?

Yes. They are a very good team. My previous comment was mostly intended to troll a few PU fans. Right now, neutral court I would pick PU as msu is slumping and PU is playing really well but by March I think msu will be the far superior team with a much higher ceiling.

 

[sdsufan10]

I think Nova has looked like hands down the best team in country but they have had some odd losses in tourney under wright as well

 

[MGC_07]

Give me Denzel Valentine over any player on your team right now.

Agreed. First player ever to average 19 7 7. But this group as a whole is better. No one is arguing Denzel is worse than anyone on our team.

 

[MGC_07]

Yeah but I'm saying I liked the makeup of that team way better due to their veteran leadership and experience.

Of course this MSU team has a higher ceiling with talent like Bridges & Jackson. But there's some intangibles you have to appreciate from the seniors of that 2015-2016 team.

It's still early and even that team had a down cycle due to Valentine missing some games, but there's some toughness missing from this team imo.

I'm very bullish and experience and older players in college. Why I thought Purdue would be really good this year.

The 15-16 team lost three in a row with Denzel there. And 2 were at home (Nebraska and Iowa) and 1 at Wisconsin. I never expected 18-0 or 17-1, that’s ridiculous in the Big Ten. But I think we could be about 15-3 or 14-4, which is better than 15-16. Plus, we have to win 1 tournament game to do better than 15-16. This years team is a lot better on defense, rebounding, assists, depth, transition offense, and post offense. That team was better at shooting, less turnovers, and being poised. I’d take this years team imo. ( Denzel was slightly better than cash rn, but this team as a whole is a lot better at assists)

 

[B-Westy]

The 15-16 team lost three in a row with Denzel there. And 2 were at home (Nebraska and Iowa) and 1 at Wisconsin. I never expected 18-0 or 17-1, that’s ridiculous in the Big Ten. But I think we could be about 15-3 or 14-4, which is better than 15-16. Plus, we have to win 1 tournament game to do better than 15-16. This years team is a lot better on defense, rebounding, assists, depth, transition offense, and post offense. That team was better at shooting, less turnovers, and being poised. I’d take this years team imo. ( Denzel was slightly better than cash rn, but this team as a whole is a lot better at assists)

Oh come on. Don't be disingenuous. A senior Denzel is only "slightly" better than Cash right now? I don't know. That's tough.

 

[MileHighSpartan]

Denzel was better than any player on this current MSU team, not even debatable. He was NPOY candidate.

Forbes was a better spot up shooter than probably anyone on this team (though Langford and Cash have been shooting incredibly well from 3), but that's all he could do.

Everyone else on this current team is as good or better than the 15-16 team imo. Costello was good, but Ward is better. Bridges better than anyone not named Denzel. JJJ better defender than anyone.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Duke and Villanova, if they have their acts together, should both beat MSU.

 

[Turinturumbar]

Just shows that we are all clueless as to who the best team is. Should make for an interesting March.

Meh, I think it is just example of how quirky basketball is. It’s a game that leaves a lot to chance. The best team loses quite often. In fact, pretty much every year you would bet everything you’ve got against the “best team”.

Quite simply, in football, a “playoff” quality team is never losing to a bad mid-major at home. Southwest Arizona Tech could never beat Alabama, even if Bama was forced to play their entire second team and bench the starters. But in basketball...those losses happen every year. Sometimes nearly every week.

 

[tw3301]

Meh, I think it is just example of how quirky basketball is. It’s a game that leaves a lot to chance. The best team loses quite often. In fact, pretty much every year you would bet everything you’ve got against the “best team”.

Quite simply, in football, a “playoff” quality team is never losing to a bad mid-major at home. Southwest Arizona Tech could never beat Alabama, even if Bama was forced to play their entire second team and bench the starters. But in basketball...those losses happen every year. Sometimes nearly every week.

Yeah teams get hot from three and/or your shots aren't falling and that's all she wrote. Happens every year in the tournament.

 

[dukedevilz]

Right, they don't have to worry about facing juggernauts like Boston College of NC State.

And yet BC and NC State are both ranked higher in the RPI than 7 teams from the Big 10...

Seriously though, look at MSU's schedule. They have just one game left against a top 25 team, at home against Purdue. They only have remaining one road game against a top 50 team (Maryland, #40 in KenPom / #50 in RPI). When I said I thought they could go 15-3 without too much difficulty, I meant it. They could easily go 16-2, possibly 17-1 if things start to really click.

 

[MileHighSpartan]

And yet BC and NC State are both ranked higher in the RPI than 7 teams from the Big 10...

Seriously though, look at MSU's schedule. They have just one game left against a top 25 team, at home against Purdue. They only have remaining one road game against a top 50 team (Maryland, #40 in KenPom / #50 in RPI). When I said I thought they could go 15-3 without too much difficulty, I meant it. They could easily go 16-2, possibly 17-1 if things start to really click.

If they get back to playing like did against Maryland (and UNC, ND, etc.)... then I could see 16-2 or 17-1. But if they continue playing like they have the last 2 games against OSU and Rutgers... not likely. 6 of last 8 conf games are on the road.

 

[Silent Banjo]

And yet BC and NC State are both ranked higher in the RPI than 7 teams from the Big 10...

Seriously though, look at MSU's schedule. They have just one game left against a top 25 team, at home against Purdue. They only have remaining one road game against a top 50 team (Maryland, #40 in KenPom / #50 in RPI). When I said I thought they could go 15-3 without too much difficulty, I meant it. They could easily go 16-2, possibly 17-1 if things start to really click.

Wouldn't that mean that Michigan State could absorb quite a few more conference losses against teams that have a higher RPI ranking than BC and NC State? My greater point is that Duke had no business losing to BC and NC State, especially by the margin they lost to NC State. I'm not a big fan of MSU state, but I think they're probably one of the top five in the country. Of course, this year is so unpredictable it's hard to tell.

 

[SpartyRBS]

Duke and Villanova, if they have their acts together, should both beat MSU.

Teams go through ups and downs in college basketball. It’s not like football where one team just physically overwhelms the other along the lines. Basketball is a different animal.

It’s all about getting better for March and getting a bit of luck. You shoot well, play hard, have the talent to do so, and you get a little bit of luck and anything can happen.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Teams go through ups and downs in college basketball. It’s not like football where one team just physically overwhelms the other along the lines. Basketball is a different animal.

It’s all about getting better for March and getting a bit of luck. You shoot well, play hard, have the talent to do so, and you get a little bit of luck and anything can happen.

Having followed college basketball dating back to when Kareem Abdul Jabbar was Lew Alcindor, I know that. Sometimes the rim can be very fickle. I'm talking about potential and engagement. I like what MSU can do but think both Duke and Villanova have higher ceilings.

 

[dukedevilz]

Wouldn't that mean that Michigan State could absorb quite a few more conference losses against teams that have a higher RPI ranking than BC and NC State? My greater point is that Duke had no business losing to BC and NC State, especially by the margin they lost to NC State. I'm not a big fan of MSU state, but I think they're probably one of the top five in the country. Of course, this year is so unpredictable it's hard to tell.

I'm not completely certain what you're trying to say in that first sentence. But 8 of MSU's final 13 opponents are outside of the RPI top 100. That makes for a very poor SOS. MSU can't afford to lose games against the likes of Rutgers, Illinois, or Iowa. Their margin for error is much lower, as far as a #1 seed is concerned, since they have fewer opportunities for quality wins - and more opportunities for bad losses. I think they're certainly a top 5 team, but their strength of schedule will make things interesting... currently MSU's SOS is 80th. It's not going to get a whole lot better during B1G play. Ideally they could go at least 15-3 in conference play. If they lose 4 conference games, they might be sitting at a 2-seed come March.

Duke can absorb losses to BC and NCSU easier because we have 7 remaining games against top 30 teams. Also, there are fewer opportunities for bad losses (4 of the final 14 are against sub-100 teams).... Also, the NC State loss really wasn't that bad. I mean, it was 79-76 with 3 minutes left. State beat Clemson and Arizona, too. They're not a great team, but they can hang around with most teams. I think they'll be a bubble team.

 

[Silent Banjo]

I'm not completely certain what you're trying to say in that first sentence. But 8 of MSU's final 13 opponents are outside of the RPI top 100. That makes for a very poor SOS. MSU can't afford to lose games against the likes of Rutgers, Illinois, or Iowa. Their margin for error is much lower, as far as a #1 seed is concerned, since they have fewer opportunities for quality wins - and more opportunities for bad losses. I think they're certainly a top 5 team, but their strength of schedule will make things interesting... currently MSU's SOS is 80th. It's not going to get a whole lot better during B1G play. Ideally they could go at least 15-3 in conference play. If they lose 4 conference games, they might be sitting at a 2-seed come March.

Duke can absorb losses to BC and NCSU easier because we have 7 remaining games against top 30 teams. Also, there are fewer opportunities for bad losses (4 of the final 14 are against sub-100 teams).... Also, the NC State loss really wasn't that bad. I mean, it was 79-76 with 3 minutes left. State beat Clemson and Arizona, too. They're not a great team, but they can hang around with most teams. I think they'll be a bubble team.

My first sentence in the previous post meant that since 7 Big Ten teams had lower RPI rankings than either BC or NCState, MSU would be facing any number of other Big Ten teams that had higher RPI rankings. So, if MSU lost to these Big Ten teams, that would still compare favorably when measured against Duke's losses to BC and NC State. LOL, I guess you can tweak data to advance any desired narrative. NC State, just before playing Duke, was demolished 88-58 to a Notre Dame team depleted by the loss of Bonzie Colson. I'm not even sure how critical having a solid RPI and SOS would be this year. I know those stats will be used to set seeds, but given how things have played out with myriad "upsets," I don't see any team that you categorically want to avoid facing as you advance through the tournament.

 

[Hacksaw Jim]

They won’t be playing that much against better competition. Those numbers are still inflated because MSU’s 8 game stretch where they played weaker teams.

I’m thinking you don’t know much about this MSU team.

Nairn and McQuaid will ply 20min/gm regardless

 

[MGC_07]

Oh come on. Don't be disingenuous. A senior Denzel is only "slightly" better than Cash right now? I don't know. That's tough.

Read man. Passing wise.

 

[MGC_07]

Wouldn't that mean that Michigan State could absorb quite a few more conference losses against teams that have a higher RPI ranking than BC and NC State? My greater point is that Duke had no business losing to BC and NC State, especially by the margin they lost to NC State. I'm not a big fan of MSU state, but I think they're probably one of the top five in the country. Of course, this year is so unpredictable it's hard to tell.

“MSU State” lol. Can’t tell by your picture or name, but what is your team?

 

[Silent Banjo]

“MSU State” lol. Can’t tell by your picture or name, but what is your team?

Sh't man that was a silly typo. I've followed MSU since the days of Jumping Johnny Green, if you know who he is. I live in Chicago and always hope Loyola has a miracle run. Would love for the Illini to harness their resources. Also quite fond of Gonzaga.

 

[MGC_07]

Sh't man that was a silly typo. I've followed MSU since the days of Jumping Johnny Green, if you know who he is. I live in Chicago and always hope Loyola has a miracle run. Would love for the Illini to harness their resources. Also quite fond of Gonzaga.

Johny Green was a baller. Love Chicago. My son is some sorta math genius ( did not get it from me) so we go out to this competition every April for these kids who make it. One of my favorite weekends of the year.

 

[MGC_07]

Really hoping this Michigan game relights a fire in MSU

 

[SpartanJD]

I'm not completely certain what you're trying to say in that first sentence. But 8 of MSU's final 13 opponents are outside of the RPI top 100. That makes for a very poor SOS. MSU can't afford to lose games against the likes of Rutgers, Illinois, or Iowa. Their margin for error is much lower, as far as a #1 seed is concerned, since they have fewer opportunities for quality wins - and more opportunities for bad losses. I think they're certainly a top 5 team, but their strength of schedule will make things interesting... currently MSU's SOS is 80th. It's not going to get a whole lot better during B1G play. Ideally they could go at least 15-3 in conference play. If they lose 4 conference games, they might be sitting at a 2-seed come March.

Duke can absorb losses to BC and NCSU easier because we have 7 remaining games against top 30 teams. Also, there are fewer opportunities for bad losses (4 of the final 14 are against sub-100 teams).... Also, the NC State loss really wasn't that bad. I mean, it was 79-76 with 3 minutes left. State beat Clemson and Arizona, too. They're not a great team, but they can hang around with most teams. I think they'll be a bubble team.

Agreed. Anything less than 15-3 and MSU is likely not a 1. And in that 15-3, MSU needs to beat Purdue at home in their only regular season matchup.

 

[CB3UK]

What's up with Sparty's throwbacks today? I assume that's "Michigan Athletic Club"

 

[northeastspartan]

What's up with Sparty's throwbacks today? I assume that's "Michigan Athletic Club"

Michigan Agricultural College

 

[CB3UK]

Michigan Agricultural College

Ahhh. That would make a helluva lot more sense Laughing

Any special reasoning behind it today other than you're playing Michigan?

 

[dckala2]

Bridges looks like a four year player

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Bridges looks like a four year player

 

[MGC_07]

Bridges looks like a four year player

Nah, but definitely not a top ten pick

 

[Hacksaw Jim]

The last 3 games have told me everything I need to know about this MSU squad.

 

[northeastspartan]

baddd baddd baddd

 

[doogie503]

theyre just not that good IMO

 

[tw3301]

theyre just not that good IMO

They were, not sure wtf has happened. Usual Izzo January?