Were Duncan/Kobe/Dirk the last loyal NBA stars?

[crazyqx83]

Thru the early 2000s most NBA superstars were loyal to their teams. In fact, other than Shaq, you can't name many stars of that era to jump teams.

Carmelo and LeBron were the first of the true stars to begin jumping around in free agency. Garnett and Allen teamed up a few years prior, but that was ultimately thru trade.

Now curry is the longest tenured nba player. Then John wall. I guess I could see curry staying with the warriors his entire career, but I could also see him jumping ship if they fall off.

Related question, who is the next round of NBA superstars? Kawhi, kyrie and klay are 3 players under 30 that have played in an nba finals. Wondering who are the next round of superstars when KD, LeBron, Curry, Harden, westbrook, etc. Start to decline in the next 5 years...

 

[toonces11]

Call me old fashioned, but I like when dudes stay put

 

[Big_Blue79]

Loyal means serving out the contract. It does not mean continuing to stay with a team that does not offer the combination of opportunity, pay, and contending that a free agent player is seeking. And you're not really up to speed on the history of the NBA if you think that the issue of superstars jumping teams is new. The only new things are that players have more leverage than they had before, contracts are shorter, and most NBA fans understand that sticking around with a team solely because the ping-pong balls dictated that they had to ply their trade for a city/team that they didn't choose is just a historical artifact.

Some pre-early 2000s superstars who agitated for and got moved (just off the top of my head):

• Wilt
• Kareem
• Pippen
• Barkley
• Rodman
• Kobe (pre-draft, he maneuvered his way to LA)
• Webber
• Shaq

Pretty sure Magic Johnson advocated to be traded, ultimately getting his coach fired. And so many more tried to get traded. Point is that if we start from the position that loyalty means sticking around in spite of bad circumstances (sort of like sticking around in a bad relationship), then it maybe seems like disloyalty. But if we start from the position that players have agency, then it's just people making decisions like they do anywhere else.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Call me old fashioned, but I like when dudes stay put

Old fashioned.

 

[crazyqx83]

Loyal means serving out the contract. It does not mean continuing to stay with a team that does not offer the combination of opportunity, pay, and contending that a free agent player is seeking. And you're not really up to speed on the history of the NBA if you think that the issue of superstars jumping teams is new. The only new things are that players have more leverage than they had before, contracts are shorter, and most NBA fans understand that sticking around with a team solely because the ping-pong balls dictated that they had to ply their trade for a city/team that they didn't choose is just a historical artifact.

Some pre-early 2000s superstars who agitated for and got moved (just off the top of my head):

• Wilt
• Kareem
• Pippen
• Barkley
• Rodman
• Kobe (pre-draft, he maneuvered his way to LA)
• Webber
• Shaq

Pretty sure Magic Johnson advocated to be traded, ultimately getting his coach fired. And so many more tried to get traded. Point is that if we start from the position that loyalty means sticking around in spite of bad circumstances (sort of like sticking around in a bad relationship), then it maybe seems like disloyalty. But if we start from the position that players have agency, then it's just people making decisions like they do anywhere else.

So you named 8 in the 40 years preceding 2000 (7 really, because kobe never chamged teams after he played his 1st game). There have been 8 of thr caliber players you mentioned change teams this year alone.

Durant
Kawhi
George
Westbrook
Davis
Kyrie
Kemba
CP3

Your take is terrible

 

[JimboBBN]

Kobe demanded a trade at one point. I don’t think loyalty is the main factor if hardly one at all. It has everything to do with contracts now

 

[anon_65nwv98c2idwc]

I agree with the players here. You only get so long to make your money before you body says, Uncle. Make it all wherever you can, screw loyalty. You owe your loyalty to yourself and your family, period.

 

[Wall2Boogie]

Thru the early 2000s most NBA superstars were loyal to their teams. In fact, other than Shaq, you can't name many stars of that era to jump teams.

Carmelo and LeBron were the first of the true stars to begin jumping around in free agency. Garnett and Allen teamed up a few years prior, but that was ultimately thru trade.

Now curry is the longest tenured nba player. Then John wall. I guess I could see curry staying with the warriors his entire career, but I could also see him jumping ship if they fall off.

Related question, who is the next round of NBA superstars? Kawhi, kyrie and klay are 3 players under 30 that have played in an nba finals. Wondering who are the next round of superstars when KD, LeBron, Curry, Harden, westbrook, etc. Start to decline in the next 5 years...

Crazy in da house! Prop man you called Darius Miller over Scotty hopson! Check our your handy work!

https://www.nbadraft.net/forum/darius-miller-vs-scotty-hopson-pro-prospects

 

[crazyqx83]

Crazy in da house! Prop man you called Darius Miller over Scotty hopson! Check our your handy work!

https://www.nbadraft.net/forum/darius-miller-vs-scotty-hopson-pro-prospects

Wow was I right.

Hopson: 3 career NBA games. 0 starts. 2 pts, 0 rebounds, 2 assists.

Miller: 253 career NBA games. 28 starts. 1524 pts, 423 rebounds, 346 assists.

 

[Big_Blue79]

So you named 8 in the 40 years preceding 2000 (7 really, because kobe never chamged teams after he played his 1st game). There have been 8 of thr caliber players you mentioned change teams this year alone.

Durant
Kawhi
George
Westbrook
Davis
Kyrie
Kemba
CP3

Your take is terrible

Wow, dude. I made a polite counterpoint to your OP. You strawman it, ignore most of it, and then claim it's terrible? Arrogant jackassery at its finest. Let's see how you did, champ.

First, I named 8 off the top of my head, and noted that many other stars requested or sought trades but were unable to secure them. This is the only point that you even attempted to address. And you don't do well at even that simple task. Westbrook asked to be traded, and OKC ensured he ended up where he wanted to be. CP3 sure as sh!t wasn't trying to go to a place where he'd be traded again before the season started. Kemba is not the "caliber player" as even Webber or Shaq, much less guys like Wilt and KAJ. And was Kawhi supposed to be "loyal" to the team that traded for him against his wishes in the first place and for which he played one year? That's half your list, btw.

Second, I also noted that the reasons for the uptick in pace of change, which takes the wind out of your "this year alone" point.

Third, I noted that the concept of loyalty is really only tied to contract length and the outdated perception that whatever team drafts you keeps you forever. And even then it's limited; just ask CP3 how loyal he thinks the Rockets were to him with three years remaining on his contract.

Try again, little man.

 

[crazyqx83]

Wow, dude. I made a polite counterpoint to your OP. You strawman it, ignore most of it, and then claim it's terrible? Arrogant jackassery at its finest. Let's see how you did, champ.

First, I named 8 off the top of my head, and noted that many other stars requested or sought trades but were unable to secure them. This is the only point that you even attempted to address. And you don't do well at even that simple task. Westbrook asked to be traded, and OKC ensured he ended up where he wanted to be. CP3 sure as sh!t wasn't trying to go to a place where he'd be traded again before the season started. And Kemba is not the "caliber player" as even Webber or Shaq, much less guys like Wilt and KAJ.

Second, I also noted that the reasons for the uptick in pace of change, which takes the wind out of your "this year alone" point.

Third, I noted that the concept of loyalty is really only tied to contract length. And even then it's limited; just ask CP3 how loyal he thinks the Rockets were to him with three years remaining on his contract.

Try again, little man.

So essentially you came with a post the had zero factual basis or research to back it up and then get pissed when I respond to the factless points.

Ok. Got it.

 

[Big_Blue79]

So essentially you came with a post the had zero factual basis or research to back it up and then get pissed when I respond to the factless points.

Ok. Got it.

My, you are an angry one. You state that there was "zero factual basis." What part was not factual? Here are the claims:

• "Loyal means serving out the contract."
• Superstars have agitated to and have left teams in the past.
• Players now have more leverage.
• Contract lengths are shorter.
• NBA fans are more understanding that loyalty wherein a player is forever stuck with the team he's drafted by is a historical artifact.
• The players I listed agitated for and received a trade.
• Magic Johnson demanded a trade.
• Other superstars have attempted to get a trade.
• Loyalty will depend on the starting perspective.

The first one is an opinion, but it's increasingly the dominant one. See, e.g., every NBA analyst. I could see how that fifth point is certainly not true for someone like you, but I said "most NBA fans" and I stick by that. The last one is absolutely true, but I could see how it would fly over the head of the simple.

So what's your basis for saying "zero factual basis" other than your serial inability to form a cogent point?

 

[theetommyt]

Be professional, not loyal.

Companies, whether they are professional sports teams or pharma companies are loyal to shareholders and profit (or other success metrics), not employees.

 

[UL_1986]

OP pats shafts.

 

[dukedevilz]

Dirk Nowitzki is more recent than Kobe or Duncan.

Steph Curry has been with Golden State for 10 years; Klay's been there for 8 years. Don't see either of them leaving anytime soon.

I could see Giannis and Embiid staying with their teams for a good 15+ years... but yes, seems like it's much more commonplace for superstars to leave their teams in favor of teaming up with other stars.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Been watching the NBA for awhile.
Can't think of too many players who stayed with one franchise.

A lot moved around. Was very common in the 60's and 70's.
Except with teams like the Celtics and Lakers.

1967 All Star Game
Only ones on that list who stayed off the top of my head
Russell Celtics
Havlicek Celtics
Greer Sixers
Reed Knicks
West Lakers

Might be one or two more

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_NBA_All-Star_Game

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Dirk Nowitzki is more recent than Kobe or Duncan.

Steph Curry has been with Golden State for 10 years; Klay's been there for 8 years. Don't see either of them leaving anytime soon.

I could see Giannis and Embiid staying with their teams for a good 15+ years... but yes, seems like it's much more commonplace for superstars to leave their teams in favor of teaming up with other stars.

Dwight Howard leaving the Lakers is the only thing that shocked me.
That was 6? years ago.
Until then no one had ever left the Lakers like that.

Like I said before the majority of franchise players very rarely stayed put unless they were drafted by a glamour franchise.

Giannis is leaving Milwaukee.
But...
Some players are anomalies like John Stockton or Dirk.
Sometimes NBA franchise in non glamour markets have to find the best fit

Glamour Franchises are the Big 6

First tier
Lakers
Celtics

Second tier
Sixers
Knicks
Bulls
Warriors

 

[duckboy33]

Be professional, not loyal.

Companies, whether they are professional sports teams or pharma companies are loyal to shareholders and profit (or other success metrics), not employees.

This

 

[dtgold88]

So you named 8 in the 40 years preceding 2000 (7 really, because kobe never chamged teams after he played his 1st game). There have been 8 of thr caliber players you mentioned change teams this year alone.

Durant
Kawhi
George
Westbrook
Davis
Kyrie
Kemba
CP3

Your take is terrible

You get the CBA is different now. If you have an issue it should be with the CBA, not the players.

 

[dtgold88]

Kobe demanded a trade at one point. I don’t think loyalty is the main factor if hardly one at all. It has everything to do with contracts now

Exactly......the idea there is no way guys like MJ, Bird, Magic, etc. would have done things differently with today's CBA is absurd.

 

[FiscalKliff]

Duncan and Dirk were cut from the same cloth and remained loyal because that is who they are. Both took pay cuts to try and allow the teams to get better. Kobe stayed but he isn't remotely in the same category as them loyalty wise. Never considered taking pay cuts even after his prime was well over. He stayed because the Lakers could pay him the most and while he was there it was an incredibly well run organization with an all time great coach that competed for titles. They gave him no reason to consider leaving but no doubt if all that wasn't in place he would have bounced without thinking twice.