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Wendell Carter being held back at Duke?

lurkeraspect84

lurkeraspect84

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Mar 4, 2014
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“I think even my teammates, all my teammates, weren’t able to show all their strengths,” Carter said after a workout with the Chicago Bulls. “That’s just the college life. You buy into whatever college you go to. You do whatever you got to do to help the team win. I think, not even speaking for myself, but all my teammates, we’re going to be able to show a lot more that we can do at the next level with the spacing on the floor, the fact that it’s the NBA. It’s not no-zone like how we were playing [at times], but it’s a lot more space on the court.”

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23696146/wendell-carter-jr-thinks-duke-blue-devils-show-more-nba
 
Yeah he was held back because he didn't have to do...IT ALL! Kinda like how Cal held back KAT and other players. When you have a team full of NBA players, they don't get to display everything they can do because it's not needed.

This is something UK fans can relate to.
 
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He was definitely held back. Duval as well. Bagley wasn't. Carter and Duval both took a backseat once Bagley came onboard. I'm in the minority that liked the Duke team without Bagley, and I have nothing against Bagley. He's going to be a really good nba player. I'm one that thinks you can have too much talent.
 
Quavarius said:
Yeah he was held back because he didn't have to do...IT ALL! Kinda like how Cal held back KAT and other players. When you have a team full of NBA players, they don't get to display everything they can do because it's not needed.

This is something UK fans can relate to.
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Accurate. Cal loves telling people that Anthony Davis took the 6th most shots on the title team in 2012.

Plus, the college game isn't nearly as well officiated or as fluid as the pro game, so wide floor spacing and isolation that really showcases 'all a player can do' just really isn't a thing for the most part.
 
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Mac9192 said:
He was definitely held back. Duval as well. Bagley wasn't. Carter and Duval both took a backseat once Bagley came onboard. I'm in the minority that liked the Duke team without Bagley, and I have nothing against Bagley. He's going to be a really good nba player. I'm one that thinks you can have too much talent.
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Certainly in the minority. No coach would turn away a talent like Bagley. NO COACH!

Also, sometimes you stockpile talent so that your competitors aren't using it as well. K turns down Marvin Bagley and he goes to UK, UNC, KU, Zona, etc. and we find out later that he wanted to come to Duke and K said No. The old man would be run out of town.
 
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Quavarius said:
Certainly in the minority. No coach would turn away a talent like Bagley. NO COACH!
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We agree to disagree Q. This past team was unlike any K has ever coached, with two dominant bigs. Not his style. Plus you can't deny Duval was like a car trying to drive with the park brake on. Give K one big and spread the floor. I.E. the five games Duke played without Bagley. 5-0. The rest of the guys played better. Better ball movement. Bagley was horrible on defense. The kid couldn't guard a cookie jar. His defense was as bad as his offense was good.
 
Did you watch a single Duke game? Of course he was. He could’ve been 20 and 10 easily. That’s the decision they have to make.
 
Mac9192 said:
We agree to disagree Q. This past team was unlike any K has ever coached, with two dominant bigs. Not his style. Plus you can't deny Duval was like a car trying to drive with the park brake on. Give K one big and spread the floor. I.E. the five games Duke played without Bagley. 5-0. The rest of the guys played better. Better ball movement. Bagley was horrible on defense. The kid couldn't guard a cookie jar. His defense was as bad as his offense was good.
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That 5-0 stretch also coincided with Duke going exclusive zone and the schedule being a lil more favorable. The whole team was horrible on defense which is why we went to a zone exclusively.

Give me Bagley, warts and all. Pretty soon, we may not be able to land "Bagley-type" players and start to hear the "Duke can't land a BIG" chants as well.
 
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Quavarius said:
That 5-0 stretch also coincided with Duke going exclusive zone and the schedule being a lil less favorable. The whole team was horrible on defense which is why we went to a zone exclusively.

Give me Bagley, warts and all. Pretty soon, we may not be able to land "Bagley-type" players and start to hear the "Duke can't land a BIG" chants as well.
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I think that'll have to do more with Capel leaving.
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
Actually not. We've never had someone high profile call it out.

TBH,I never judge whe players say stuff like this.It's a ball busting move.
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I mean, anyone with knowledge of the game can see how the college game and NBA is different and if you have too many NBA guys on one college team, they will feel they were held back. Not in a way of disrespect, but because they didn't need to display ALL of their talents because of their role on the team.
 
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Quavarius said:
Yeah he was held back because he didn't have to do...IT ALL! Kinda like how Cal held back KAT and other players. When you have a team full of NBA players, they don't get to display everything they can do because it's not needed.

This is something UK fans can relate to.
Click to expand...
That's why they need to come to the Buckeyes and be The Man. Who's with me?
 
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Every player at UVA gets held back offensively. Kyle Guy would probably average 30+ at Oklahoma if he was featured like Trae Young was. But we win a lot of regular season and ACC tourney games and are starting to consistently put players in the NBA.
 
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Funny thing, you won't hear Bagley say he was held back, cause he wasn't. No team wins it putting the focus more on one player.
Go back through the years and look at the championship teams and you'll find the ball spread out. The Kentucky team of 12 had Davis as leading scorer at like 14 points a game. Very balanced squad offensively.
It seemed like Bagley had to have the ball in his hands. Carter would have put up better numbers, yet he played hard both sides of the ball. Duval too.
 
Chimaera717 said:
Plus, the college game isn't nearly as well officiated or as fluid as the pro game, so wide floor spacing and isolation that really showcases 'all a player can do' just really isn't a thing for the most part.
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So much this. I wish the college game could get its act together; it feels like watching 2002 NBA basketball, or those late 1990s Heat/Knicks torture festivals.
 
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WojoRising said:
Did you watch a single Duke game? Of course he was. He could’ve been 20 and 10 easily. That’s the decision they have to make.
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They probably weren't good enough ball handlers for it, but I really wish K would have ran a Bagley/Carter P&R at least once. The Pelicans did that at times with Davis and Cousins and it could be deadly. Both being able to hit a jumper makes it even better.
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
Actually not. We've never had someone high profile call it out.

TBH,I never judge whe players say stuff like this.It's a ball busting move.
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Is that how you interpreted Carter's comments? What he's stating is just a fact given the nature of college basketball vs the pros.

Also, Swaggy Cal held back Devin Booker by featuring the Harrison twins. RollLaugh
 
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bignish said:
Is that how you interpreted Carter's comments? What he's stating is just a fact given the nature of college basketball vs the pros.

Also, Swaggy Cal held back Devin Booker by featuring the Harrison twins. RollLaugh
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A) It probably won't help Duke on the recruiting trail.
B) Booker was cold in Feb. and March when UK needed him. Also not great at D.
C) UK has never had a player openly come out and say they were held back. So he's right about that.
 
Quavarius said:
Beat it @dtgold88 lol
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Truth be told, I cannot believe they can't sell this to a recruit. Maybe things can change with Holtman.

Guessing other coaches would just tell the recruit he'd be forgotten at a football school where you go to Duke or UK and it's all bball.
 
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Quavarius said:
Certainly in the minority. No coach would turn away a talent like Bagley. NO COACH!

Also, sometimes you stockpile talent so that your competitors aren't using it as well. K turns down Marvin Bagley and he goes to UK, UNC, KU, Zona, etc. and we find out later that he wanted to come to Duke and K said No. The old man would be run out of town.
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Fantastic (and often overlooked) second point. Back before scholarship limits in football, Bear Bryant would get boosters to help secure a high level recruit for Bama even if they had 5 more like him at the same position, just so they wouldn't go to Auburn.
 
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GE Nole said:
Fantastic (and often overlooked) second point. Back before scholarship limits in football, Bear Bryant would get boosters to help secure a high level recruit for Bama even if they had 5 more like him at the same position, just so they wouldn't go to Auburn.
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This is more reason there needs to be some sort of capped free market system within college sports. This does nothing but hurt the product and none of the coaches really care.
 
Evil_Morty said:
C) UK has never had a player openly come out and say they were held back. So he's right about that.
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Isaiah Briscoe was salty AF when he left UK and didn't want his time at Kentucky to be associated with him while he was doing NBA workouts.

Briscoe was very unhappy with how he was utilized in that offense since he never got to play the primary PG and had to play 2nd fiddle to Tyler Ulis and De'Aaron Fox.

So there ya go. What Carter said came nothing close to that.
 
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We get it. It's the off season. Certain fans looking for anything to discuss, especially if it sounds like turmoil at a rival school. Hey, I didn't start a thread about Cal committing a recruiting violation (as much as I love me some Cal).
 
Mac9192 said:
Funny thing, you won't hear Bagley say he was held back, cause he wasn't. No team wins it putting the focus more on one player.
Go back through the years and look at the championship teams and you'll find the ball spread out. The Kentucky team of 12 had Davis as leading scorer at like 14 points a game. Very balanced squad offensively.
It seemed like Bagley had to have the ball in his hands. Carter would have put up better numbers, yet he played hard both sides of the ball. Duval too.
Click to expand...

Yet Carter said he was speaking for "all" of his teammates.
 
Quavarius said:
Yet Carter said he was speaking for "all" of his teammates.
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I'm not saying he didn't like Bagley at all, but what do you expect him to say, "Marvin got more touches than me. That wasn't fair!?" Come on Q. Say one thing when the camera is on, and another when it's not.
All of what he said was true, but you know as well as I do that Bagley was more of the focal point than he was. Also he was sold that he would be the focal point until Bagley decided to reclass, according to Mrs. Carter.
 
Mac9192 said:
I'm not saying he didn't like Bagley at all, but what do you expect him to say, "Marvin got more touches than me. That wasn't fair!?" Come on Q. Say one thing when the camera is on, and another when it's not.
All of what he said was true, but you know as well as I do that Bagley was more of the focal point than he was. Also he was sold that he would be the focal point until Bagley decided to reclass, according to Mrs. Carter.
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But no one asked him about his teammates. HE decided to speak for all of them when he could have kept the focal point on himself. But, ok. Marvin shot 40% from 3. In sure he'd say "yeah, I could have done more as well, but my job was to score down low and rebound."
 
bignish said:
Isaiah Briscoe was salty AF when he left UK and didn't want his time at Kentucky to be associated with him while he was doing NBA workouts.

Briscoe was very unhappy with how he was utilized in that offense since he never got to play the primary PG and had to play 2nd fiddle to Tyler Ulis and De'Aaron Fox.

So there ya go. What Carter said came nothing close to that.
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I can't necessarily disagree with that. Ulis was already on the roster when Briscoe committed. But we basically recruited over him the next season with Fox knowing damn well Fox was a better player.

Though Briscoe did start nearly every game he played at UK. He was never the primary ball handler and played the 3 the entire time he was here.

And even if he had come back for his junior year it wouldn't have been a guarantee because SGA turned out to be so good.

Honestly I think it's getting more and more difficult for programs to consistently win at a high rate while also operating in the best interests of the players too. I'm not sure how much sense it makes for two guys like Carter and Bagley or Aaron Harrison and Devin Booker, or Fox and Briscoe or Green and SGA to go to the same program when both guys could go elsewhere and be the star from day one.
 
Quavarius said:
Yeah he was held back because he didn't have to do...IT ALL! Kinda like how Cal held back KAT and other players. When you have a team full of NBA players, they don't get to display everything they can do because it's not needed.

This is something UK fans can relate to.
Click to expand...
They held back their man-to-man defense, that's fo sho.
 
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Quavarius said:
Which is why zone got them to the Elite 8
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We weren't that good in the zone, but it was awesome compared to the man to man.
Then Self made an adjustment at halftime, and we started playing some sort of horrendous form of zone I've never seen. Grayson trying to guard the middle, and running one side to the other. Say what you want about Bagley Q, but K couldn't hide him nowhere on defense.
 
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